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Thread: Going Around- Procedures

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    aktango58's Avatar
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    Going Around- Procedures

    The thread on short approaches brought up going around. I remember well my 135 check that I got dinged for maintaining runway centerline as I climbed out (rather steeply as Vx felt vertical in that plane when light). The FAA inspector and I had a discussion afterwards and he was correct in reminding me that being over the runway does not allow you to see and avoid whatever caused the need to go around.

    So here it is- if we initiate a go around, by sidestepping (usually right), you allow yourself visibility of the runway and if another aircraft is taking off in front of you you can observe and avoid said aircraft.

    Is this good procedure today? Looking at the flight training handbook I don't see that in there, but seems sound.

    Thoughts?

    One thing I like to stress to my students and lower time retract guys: If you initiate a go around, do NOT change your mind and try to save the landing. Continue on the go around, do another pattern and pre-landing check, then land. It is amazing how often in training when called to go around the gear handle gets put to the 'Up' position without the pilot thinking about it, (good procedural training); when then told "Ok, you can land anyway." the pilot naturally pulls power and intends to land without thinking about where the gear is. Human Nature, most of us have done it in training- so just go out and do a pattern. Rant over.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    FdxLou's Avatar
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    All good info. The side step is essential to maintaining separation if needed.


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    Last edited by FdxLou; 12-30-2017 at 04:15 PM.
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    nightflyer's Avatar
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    It depends on the reason for the go around. There’s no reason to side step if you caught some windshear or were unstable.

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    Colorguns's Avatar
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    What aktango58 is stressing if you practice it it will be done without thought.

    Doug

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    nanook's Avatar
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    Standard count should be in your brain, mixture, prop, throttle, flaps 15, gear-up, flaps up = 6 count. More complex twin might be an 8 count with pumps, fuel selectors, you need to have this in your brain. When it is time to go around, it should be automatic. Remain on runway heading unless tower says otherwise. Fly the plane Vx to Vy when clear of obstacles. Don't forget to check gear/mirror and handle to neutral. Do the before landing on downwind, just like normal.
    Don't make a big deal out of going around, make sure you complete your count...
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    All good. Our tower chief says track over runway unless you get a clearance otherwise. Clearances are free.

    We have dual runways and adjacent helicopter patterns. Hitting a helicopter is fatal.

    Same with patterns. Run a standard pattern. If you want something else, ask. I get 800' agl patterns every time I fly, even though a non-flying airport director had it raised to 1000' without discussion.

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    cozzmo81's Avatar
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    I was taught by my instructor to sidestep the runway to the right when performing a go-around. When I was doing my second of three landings on my first solo flight another student taxied onto the runway while I was on Final approach. I was announcing my position on all legs of the pattern. As I initiated the go-around the aircraft that took the runway in front of me proceeded with his take off roll and then made a non-standard RH turn underneath me. I have no idea what he was thinking or why he never heard my radio calls or saw my landing lights. In this instance side stepping to the right of the runway allowed me to keep visual contact with the other aircraft until he was no longer a factor. Each situation or reason for a go around is different so I don't think there is a cookie cutter answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    Standard count should be in your brain, mixture, prop, throttle, flaps 15, gear-up, flaps up = 6 count. More complex twin might be an 8 count with pumps, fuel selectors, you need to have this in your brain. When it is time to go around, it should be automatic. Remain on runway heading unless tower says otherwise. Fly the plane Vx to Vy when clear of obstacles. Don't forget to check gear/mirror and handle to neutral. Do the before landing on downwind, just like normal.
    Don't make a big deal out of going around, make sure you complete your count...
    and for a Skywagon, add “Trim, Dammit, TRIM!” In there somewhere.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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    Some people always want to sound like the smartest guy in the room when what they should say is "good ride, nice job". As mentioned what would be the reason for the go around? Was it an unstable approach? Missed approach, or aircraft malfunction? For those there would be no reason and in the case of missed approach would be unsafe. Fly the airplane for the situation. If you need to see what is on the runway maneuver accordingly. Might want to check out also what it means to "fly straight ahead" or "straight out" vs "runway heading".
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    Good point. He no doubt meant "track the centerline" - sometimes not easy to do. I have landmarks picked out a mile west of the airport.

    We had a guy violated in a Convair for tracking instead of holding a compass heading. Must have been one hell of a crosswind for ATC to notice.

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    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    Yup. It was only fairly recently (few years) that I realized that "maintain runway heading" means heading, regardless of wind drift. In some case that can push you closer to people on the downwind coming the other way, but that's what the tower told me it means. (KLGB) It seems fairly natural to try to maintain runway track,
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    With the advent of RNAV SID’s (basically GPS instrument departures), there was a real push on the difference between runway heading and runway track. If 2 aircraft depart parallel runways in a stiff crosswind, it’s really important that everyone’s going where they’re supposed to. May not be as important at a small airport but concept and expectations are the same. Many airports utilize instrument departures that require track be flown if aircraft is properly equipped, but most (not all) provide waypoint to waypoint navigation. A clearance to fly runway heading means just that, with no correction for wind...

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    Some people always want to sound like the smartest guy in the room when what they should say is "good ride, nice job". As mentioned what would be the reason for the go around? Was it an unstable approach? Missed approach, or aircraft malfunction? For those there would be no reason and in the case of missed approach would be unsafe. Fly the airplane for the situation. If you need to see what is on the runway maneuver accordingly. Might want to check out also what it means to "fly straight ahead" or "straight out" vs "runway heading".
    Okay, I'll bite: Please provide the "official" definition of the ATC instruction "Fly Straight Out".....

    MTV

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    ICAO term, fly the track. Often used in the UK and other Commonwealth countries.

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    Very common at several local airports I use to hear “make straight out departure, clear for takeoff”. Guess I never put too much thought into it other than don’t turn right after takeoff......

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    Sounds like runway heading to me...
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Just my 2 cents, do your go-around as the situation demands, or the guy thats signing your ticket requires (hes only in the plane for a short time). One of my expiriences: I was cleared to land by atc and i was on short final @ fsd in a cap flight c182 when an alegiant air md-80 pulled out on the runway. I broke right to an upwind leg (before tower had even started hollering at me to break off) and went around. I still temember tower telling the captain to call the tower via landline when they arrived in las vegas. Fly that plane as the situation dictates.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    aktango58's Avatar
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    VFR vs IFR

    When doing a Missed Approach or IMC, all you generally have is a heading.

    When VFR you can adjust your track to fly the course. My discussion was for VFR which is where most Go-arounds seem to happen. when close to the runway.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Lets put it this way. You are an outfitter in ak and you are constantly doing go-arounds because of game, winds, ect.. Every landing off airport is a go-around with the option of a potential landing.
    So, you do your check ride with a dpe for a 135 check or biannual that never gets out of the city and his only flying is check rides. He says, "i want you to do go arounds to the left at vx". What do you do? What ever he wants if you want signed off!
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Sounds like runway heading to me...
    No it is not. If the tower wants runway heading, they will say, "Fly runway heading". Straight out means just that, straight relative to the runway. It is even written in air carrier ops specs.

    We used to have an ops specs instructor "Mother Patricia Malone". She was a legend (goggle her), even with the FAA who often consulted her about their specs and regulations and a lot of pilots owe their careers to her. She would tell you in no uncertain terms what "straight out" means.

  21. #21
    mvivion's Avatar
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    GeeBee,

    When the TRSA was established at Fairbanks International Airport, a specific set of procedures were established that dictated how you were to operate under the TRSA.

    One of those was a "TRSA Departure", as in "Cleared for TRSA Departure" meant that you were to takeoff and fly runway heading. If you look in the pilot/controller glossary, the clearance to fly runway heading is well defined.....you fly that HEADING, with NO wind correction. Here's the cite:


    "RUNWAY HEADING


    The magnetic direction that corresponds with the runway centerline extended, notthe painted runway number. When cleared to “fly or maintain runway

    heading,” pilots are expected to fly or maintain the heading that corresponds with the extended centerline of the departure runway. Drift correction shall not be applied; e.g., Runway 4, actual magnetic heading of the runway centerline 044, fly 044."

    The problem being that if you took off from the east parallel runway, and there was an easterly wind, flying runway heading could drift you into, or close to departing traffic from the west side parallel.

    So, I talked to the Tower Chief about this, and suggested that they change the TRSA Departure procedure to require a "Straight Out Departure", at least till given an on course heading by Tower. His response...."There is no such approved terminology for ATC". Ah, I noted....but your controllers use that terminology frequently.....so what does it mean?

    He basically said it's a colloquialism that controllers use, but it is not defined by the FAA in the handbook. He explained that it's an "impossible" clearance to follow, because, at least in theory, pilots have nothing to keep them aligned for "straight out". The runway is behind, so using it as a visual reference doesn't work, and while you can guess at the crosswind, guessing isn't supposed to be part of an ATC clearance. That is my summary of what he stated, not a direct quote, but that's the essence of it. And, it's a valid point.....how can you track the extended centerline reliably, unless of course you use something like a GPS?

    Here is a link to the Pilot/Controller's Handbook: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...cg_4-03-14.pdf

    Please show me the official definition of "Fly Straight Out". There is none. Which means it is not an approved "clearance".

    That issue with the TRSA Departure procedure was not resolved by the time I left FAI. Controllers assigned the TRSA Departure, which included the runway heading requirement....ie: No wind drift. Controllers would often instruct pilots to "Fly straight out", and pilots would sorta do so.

    But, if no admonition was given by ATC, pilots....at least this one, continued to apply wind drift to maintain separation from parallel traffic, in violation (at least technically) of the TRSA Departure Procedure.

    So, show us a definition of "fly straight out". An official one, that is.

    MTV

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    Within the ops specs issued by the FAA under which I other air carriers operate, there is a differential between "straight out" and "runway heading". For engine out missed approach for instance it says, "Priority is 1. Company Engine Out Procedure 2. ATC Clearance 3. As Desired, e.g. straight out or runway heading" (ed. NOTE DIFFERENCE)

    Second, I would point you to this document about departures from uncontrolled airports which again points you to flying runway track and not heading, https://www.faasafety.gov/files/noti...port_Comms.pdf
    Thus the FAA believes and wants you to fly a runway track

    The tower cannot give a verbal clearance to "fly straight out" in the US, they can in PAN-Ops locations. A US tower however CAN give you a CHARTED (IOW published in Part 97) published departure procedure that requires you to fly "straight ahead" which is flying the runway track common on RNAV off the runway.

    As for being impossible not true. You can build a runway track in most GPS navigators such as the GNS 430. Second, most transport aircraft flight directors revert to runway track after takeoff without other navigation instructions and on many aircraft you can select either heading or track on the flight guidance system.

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    Within the ops specs issued by the FAA under which I other air carriers operate, there is a differential between "straight out" and "runway heading". For engine out missed approach for instance it says, "Priority is 1. Company Engine Out Procedure 2. ATC Clearance 3. As Desired, e.g. straight out or runway heading" (ed. NOTE DIFFERENCE)

    Second, I would point you to this document about departures from uncontrolled airports which again points you to flying runway track and not heading, https://www.faasafety.gov/files/noti...port_Comms.pdf
    Thus the FAA believes and wants you to fly a runway track

    The tower cannot give a verbal clearance to "fly straight out" in the US, they can in PAN-Ops locations. A US tower however CAN give you a CHARTED (IOW published in Part 97) published departure procedure that requires you to fly "straight ahead" which is flying the runway track common on RNAV off the runway.

    As for being impossible not true. You can build a runway track in most GPS navigators such as the GNS 430. Second, most transport aircraft flight directors revert to runway track after takeoff without other navigation instructions and on many aircraft you can select either heading or track on the flight guidance system.
    FYI, I fly a no electric airplane. And, Im not required to operate under your airlines op spec. And I don’t get involved in PAN-Ops much. I doubt most folks on this forum do either.

    Indeed, it is a simple task to “build” an extension of the runway via GPS. But my point was that There technically is no such clearance in this country as “Fly straight out”.

    Even though it’s issued by ATC types pretty much daily. The problem, as I see it, is that “Fly runway heading” is often mistaken for “Fly straight out” and the two are different. Huge problem? Not really.

    MTV

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    No, a US tower cannot issue a clearance to fly "straight out" but you can request it and if approved, YOU MUST COMPLY because by default it is not anything else other than runway track. If it were runway heading, you would be so cleared. You may not have noticed it but I've seen a guy request a "straight out" as he is drifting, the controller then says, "Fly runway heading" to save the pilot's butt. It's a small thing but a necessary thing to differentiate. Particularly at parallel runways or mountainous terrain.

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    I’ve heard ATC initiate “Fly straight out” calls dozens of times, and received such instructions without asking a number of times.

    As specific and controlled as ATC comm is supposed to be, slang and short cuts are pretty common.

    I just do do what I presume they want me to, unless the instruction is ambiguous.....or just wrong.

    MTV

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    If you are having to presume, then you are by definition in an ambiguous situation.

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    Try all that in a J-3 at 25 knots. Does not take much wind to create a serious problem with dual runways. VFR in the Cub, I assume runway track, and often get it right. When I don't, I try to make sure any error is away from the other runway track.
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    At the risk of running this thread further off the rails, I just got off the phone with a tower controller friend of mine..... Take away points were,
    1. Don’t mix IFR and VFR departures in the same bag.
    2. IFR CLEARANCE of runway heading is just that, heading.
    3. He doesn’t know if there is an official FAA definition of straight out, but if he issues INSTRUCTIONS to depart straight out, he expects the aircraft to fly straight out from the runway and apply wind corrections to do so.
    4. And most important, if you’re not sure, for Chr***s sakes, ask!!!! (His words, not mine)
    Last edited by mam90; 01-01-2018 at 11:03 PM.
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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    I must have had a jillion "Straight out departure approved, cleared for takeoff" transmissions from towers under VFR, and they have always meant "no big turns real soon". If parallel runways, eyes and ears open, and don't drift toward the other one's extended centerline. IFR, fly assigned heading or SID. Simple!

    Edit: I fairly commonly depart 21L from Pasco, straight out departure. I'm careful to not encroach on 21R, and if there's parallel runway traffic tower will caution users of each to be aware. Then, come to think of it, I usually get a "turn on course approved" or "own nav approved" together with frequency change somewhere around the edge of class D. That's VFR. No mention of headings or track, just "straight out departure approved". That tower isn't as busy as MYF, but still, sounds a lot like what Bob is saying.
    Last edited by Gordon Misch; 01-01-2018 at 09:56 PM.
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    From the FAA Flying Handbook Chapter 7

    The departure leg of the rectangular pattern is a straight coursealigned with, and leading from, the takeoff runway. This legbegins at the point the airplane leaves the ground and continuesuntil the pilot begins the 90° turn onto the crosswind leg.





    Thus a departure without instruction to fly a heading must by definition be "straight out" since you are flying a COURSE aligned with the runway course. (That is the reason why "straight out" is not defined in the P/C glossary).

    Also "straight out" is defined by the FAA in departure procedures for obstacle accountability studies around airports and it is defined as the runway COURSE extended from the departure end. (AC120-91)

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    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    I just try and do my best not to hit anyone VFR or IFR. A little common sense is called for.

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    http://aviationhumor.net/you-can-alw...-around-song/#

    You May need to scroll to the top to see the video

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