Earth X batteries, ok or not?

Good question. There is a gal who works at EarthX, forget her name but she knows the products inside out. I'd suggest a call to them. My experience has been positive with them.

So, here’s a question: For those using the Earth X batteries in certificates Aircraft, what did you use for a basis for that installation?

MTV

mvivion said:

So, here’s a question: For those using the Earth X batteries in certificates Aircraft, what did you use for a basis for that installation?

MTV

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Owner produced part. Used the “spec the part” side of owner produced and requested EarthX build it for me. Got lucky, they actually build a battery that matched my specs exactly.


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gbflyer said:

Good question. There is a gal who works at EarthX, forget her name but she knows the products inside out. I'd suggest a call to them. My experience has been positive with them.

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Her name is Kathy. Very knowledgeable.
Lou

mvivion said:

So, here’s a question: For those using the Earth X batteries in certificates Aircraft, what did you use for a basis for that installation?

MTV

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Just reading 41-13 on battery. There is nothing says must be certified. Just says different batteries for different uses. So- seems to me it is just a minor alteration to change from one battery to the next.

Ok- blast away!

aktango58 said:

Just reading 41-13 on battery. There is nothing says must be certified. Just says different batteries for different uses. So- seems to me it is just a minor alteration to change from one battery to the next.

Ok- blast away!

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2B (that part of 43.13) used to only be acceptable data(you could use it GET a field approval, maybe..)... before the rewrite of 43.13 in 1998? .....somehow 2B turned into approved data, much to the surprise of even my FAA inspector....

What ever happened to Odyssey Batteries?

That's the problem with the modern batteries, they last for so long the world's past you by when you come to change it out next.

Barnstormer said:

Owner produced part. Used the “spec the part” side of owner produced and requested EarthX build it for me. Got lucky, they actually build a battery that matched my specs exactly.


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I hope that you speak in jest since that is most certainly NOT a description of "Owner produced part". If you are not making a joke, I suggest that you do a little research.

Li-ion or Li-iron. I would be very careful about putting anything lithium in an airplane without a charging system and electrical cutouts specifically designed. Lithium fed fires cannot be put out with any extinguisher you might carry. Boeing's solution to their fires on the 787 was to create a two inch thick stainless steel battery case machined out of a single billet. The design criteria was to allow the battery to burn itself out completely without fire fighting action.

If you read AC43.13-2B allows you to install a lead acid battery if certain criteria is met. It specifically calls out not allowing Lithium type batteries. Earth X is working on a certified version. From everything I have researched you are on your own installing an Earth X in a certified aircraft at this point, kinda like those Catto props.

There is also an excellent article on EarthX in the December 2017 issue of Kitplanes magazine.

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That was a very informative article.

There is also an excellent article on EarthX in the December 2017 issue of Kitplanes magazine.

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That was a very informative article.

CAR 3 aircraft should be able to use the Earth-X batteries based on CAR 4a.571 Battery

Smith PA12 said:

I've ordered a new Earth X battery and now I am seeing a lot of posts about them burning up. Any new information on them, should we be putting them in our planes? is there an installation issue that needs addressing? if anyone has info on why they have burned up, I'd sure like to know.

Thanks

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So I came across this in the old Civil Air Regulations. I thought of this because of the tail wheel issues and older aircraft that were certified under the CIVIL AIR REGULATIONS. This looks like an acceptable install of the Earth X batteries in certified aircraft per the regulation.

So if your aircraft was certified under CAR3 looks like you can go ahead and install this without an STC or Field Approval.

CIVIL AIR REGULATIONS
PART 4aAIRPLANE AIRWORTHINESS
As amended to April 7, 1950

ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT INSTALLATION
4a.570 General.
4a.571 Battery.

§ 4a.571 Battery.
Batteries shall be easily accessible and adequately isolated from fuel, oil, and ignition systems.
Adjacent parts of the aircraft structure shall be protected with a suitable acid-proof paint if the battery contains acid or other corrosive substances and is not completely enclosed.
If the battery is completely enclosed, suitable ventilation shall be provided.
All batteries shall be so installed that spilled liquid will be suitably drained or absorbed without coming in contact with the airplane structure.

You are mixing CAR 3 and CAR 4. Two different sets of regulations and approvals. There are some similarities and some differences which may be rather subtle.

OOPS..Ok here is the regulation from CAR3

BATTERIES

§ 3.682 Batteries.

When an item of electrical equipment which is essential to the safe operation of the airplane is installed,
the battery required shall have sufficient capacity to supply the electrical power necessary for dependable operation of the connected electrical equipment.

§ 3.683 Protection against acid.

If batteries are of such a type that corrosive substance may escape during servicing or flight,
means such as a completely enclosed compartment shall be provided to prevent such substances from coming in contact with other parts of the airplane which are essential to safe operation.
Batteries shall be accessible for servicing and inspection on the ground.

§ 3.684 Battery vents.

The battery container or compartment shall be vented in such manner that gases released by the battery are carried outside the airplane.

I'll let you install one in your Super Cub and sign it off David and we will see what happens.

I re-familiarized myself with AC 43.13-2B Chapter 10 Aircraft Battery Installations. It addresses lead acid battery installation as well as Nickel Cadmium with a lot more requirements for the latter but does not address Lithium Iron. Someone gets an approval in writing I will be glad to install one in mine and Customer's airplanes. If not I will wait for the certified version the article in Kitplanes said they were working on.

Thanks for all the info, folks....good discussion. For the record, I was really looking for info, not being the fun police.

MTV

It is an interesting battery with a lot of pluses but a little more complicated than the simple lead acid battery. If you can get a hold of the article in Kitplanes it is very interesting on the design, how it is manufactured and the failures they have seen and how and why. Failures have been installation and electrical system design issues, not the product.

Just an FYI, the Navy actually has a review board that looks at EVERY potential lithium based battery that would be installed in an aircraft, along with the proposed use. All the way down to the little button batteries in keep alive circuits. While the EarthX battery looks promising, as a DER and DAR with Field approval authority, I won’t issue an approval on an installation, and as an IA, I won’t give an Airworthy annual on an airplane with one installed. If they got PMA, then I’d be inclined, but not now.


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Steve Pierce said:

I'll let you install one in your Super Cub and sign it off David and we will see what happens.

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Soo what are you saying? Agree or Disagree? Not a valid point? Ummm

davidv.lewis said:

Soo what are you saying? Agree or Disagree? Not a valid point? Ummm

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I don't see enough data to install it via my A&P license. Would take a long conversation with my FSDO and then research their opinion.

Got pretty excited when I saw an article in Cub Clues (May/June 2016) complete with a signed block 3 337 for an EarthX in a J3.. Then you realize the installation is not hooked up to a charging system.. I would imagine it’s only a matter of time before we see a legal option for certified aircraft..

Since I've been running EarthX batteries for a bunch of years now let me share a cold weather issue I consistently HAD. Had being the important word.


First off when I was living and flying in the lower 48 I never experienced any issues either starting my hi-compression O375 or a IO520D. EarthX ETX36D in all cases because that was the model I'd originally started with.


But once I moved to Alaska as soon as the temps went below freezing over night and I'd go to start the O375 I'd get a blade and that would be it, the battery would drop into protection mode (I could keep this from happening by keeping the charger attached overnight). I assumed since it was over 3 years old it was just loosing the ability to crank when cold so replaced it with another. Didn't get a chance to test it thoroughly as I put the plane in a hangar and headed south for the winter.


Next spring, summer and fall everything was fine. Then the freezing weather came and the problem resurfaced. I called EarthX and we talked at length about the possibility of a bad run of batteries, or of course the proverbial electrical draw, etc. Nothing made sense. They had me do voltage tests both before and after.


They shipped me a new battery which I promptly put on the shelf as it was easier to just plug in the charger if I knew the temp would go below freezing. Winter set in and again the plane went into storage and I headed south.


Later in the winter I came up to move the plane to my mechanics hangar for some maintenance. I'd left the charger plugged in so no problems. Spring, summer and fall came and went without issues. Then winter and the problem resurfaced again. I pulled the brand new EarthX off the shelf, topped it off, and swapped out batteries. The next day the same thing happened again. Called EarthX and they were as puzzled as I since they have a bunch of batteries in snow machines all over the country.


Finally after much discussion we came to the conclusion that the problem must be related to the hi-compression of the engine. They suggested I change to an ETX900. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse so I agreed.


That was and is the fix. I've intentionally let the engine get as below zero as we get on the Peninsula and leave it for over a week. No charger and no engine heat and no problem cranks right over (of course I didn't let it start at those temps without engine heat- I was just testing the scenario I knew would fail 100% of the time with the ETX36D and my engine).


Lithium batteries are not quite to the point of plug and forget like the old acid batteries, but as long as one understands this and is prepared for it, like having a Jump Pack on board just-in-case, they are absolutely worth it, at least to me.

My Earth X in my experimental continues to perform wonderfully. Keeping in mind I transfer fuel up into the mains often using my floor mounted pump, originally installed when using my fuel bladder ferry tank. I do this a lot with the plane not running, on the ground, sometimes after its been sitting for a week or two. As much as 20 gallons, and when I go to crank the 912 Rotax, it's spins like NO prior power has been drawn from that battery. It's gutty and trouble free, going on 4 years now I think. In my case (being exp.) the 10 lbs. or more weight savings made it a no brainer. The newer EarthX's are even more trick I understand, then my earlier model. I think I already stated this in this same thread, but anytime I can save 10 lbs. or more by throwing 2 or 3 hundred dollars at the plane, I'll do it gladly, best weight/dollar deal ever.

Ok, so now begs the question to all of you mechanics, and pilots:

You fly a certified plane in cold weather, battery mounted in the back so pre-heat won't touch it, and plane is left outside for a few days at a time so gets cold soaked.

You need a new battery, what would you buy and install?

If you are doing an annual on a plane and a guy has a non-approved battery, what do you do?

aktango58 said:

Ok, so now begs the question to all of you mechanics, and pilots:

You fly a certified plane in cold weather, battery mounted in the back so pre-heat won't touch it, and plane is left outside for a few days at a time so gets cold soaked.

You need a new battery, what would you buy and install?

If you are doing an annual on a plane and a guy has a non-approved battery, what do you do?

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https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/odysseydry7.php?clickkey=22004

Stop by, i have one sitting on the shelf

We just started installing lithium iron batteries in Caravans! True Blue Power STC'd. (EarthX needs to get with the program). The first Caravan to get one has the Blackhawk P&W PT6A-140 (867SHP). The lithium spins the start Ng past 20%, the lead acid would get maybe 18%. The charge rate after start is noticeably higher for a short duration. The lithium weighs 32lbs less than the lead acid...

aktango58 said:

Ok, so now begs the question to all of you mechanics, and pilots:

You fly a certified plane in cold weather, battery mounted in the back so pre-heat won't touch it, and plane is left outside for a few days at a time so gets cold soaked.

You need a new battery, what would you buy and install?

If you are doing an annual on a plane and a guy has a non-approved battery, what do you do?

Click to expand...

If your aircraft is a CAR3 bird - the regulations don't specify a type of battery and you are good to install it.