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Thread: Acme Aero Bush Shock 2

  1. #1

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    Acme Aero Bush Shock 2

    Has anyone run the Acme Aero Bush Shock 2? This nitrogen filled replacement for the stock bungees looks interesting and is a little cheaper than the AOSS. I have not seen this previously mentioned on this forum.

    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...lickkey=104792

  2. #2
    spinner2's Avatar
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    Looks interesting. I'd be interested in hearing a report too.

    I have the AOSS and think it is excellent. But there are new products on the market that may do as well.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  3. #3
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    that rod end looks scary small to me...

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    is that a solid shaft?? they look neat. I could probably make a set of the lower struts and buy some gas shocks from an off roading site or something. It might be too much experimenting for me though? I'd like to see a report before buying. There's an old thread somewhere on better landing gear that mentions Roberts "RAGE" gear by Avweld, I don't see a website for them anywhere though.
    Acme aer guys are on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/acmeaerofab...8583046007682/
    Last edited by Dan Gervae; 10-17-2016 at 04:13 PM.

  5. #5

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    I looked at the Facebook page for Acme Aero and they seem to be going directly after AOSS in one of the posts. They say they have a pre-impregnated monorail at the cabana mounting point compared to a sleeve and bolt on the AOSS.



  6. #6
    40m's Avatar
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    As with all new efforts and advancements I wish them luck but personally having enjoyed a worry free AOSS system for three years the Acme system would have to come with an airplane attached to it for me to consider trading out. Cold, hot, heavy or not AOSS is consistent and maintenance free.

  7. #7
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    The implication is that they are intended for installation on a Cub. What is the certification status? In process? Done? FAA-PMA?
    N1PA

  8. #8
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    that rod end looks scary small to me...
    Probably fine in tension, but seems AOSS had problems in compression at one time, so this might also.
    Gordon

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    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  9. #9
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    Probably fine in tension, but seems AOSS had problems in compression at one time, so this might also.
    their problem was with upper atlee safety cable tab/plate interfering at full extensions... though Burl will not except this answer

  10. #10
    Mauleguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    their problem was with upper atlee safety cable tab/plate interfering at full extensions... though Burl will not except this answer
    That may have been a problem also but I think this was the reason they came up with the fix.



    http://www.supercub.org/photopost/sh...hp?photo=13546


    The rod end is a weak link without question and I would not put them on my airplane (acme aero)

  11. #11
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauleguy View Post
    That may have been a problem also but I think this was the reason they came up with the fix.



    http://www.supercub.org/photopost/sh...hp?photo=13546


    The rod end is a weak link without question and I would not put them on my airplane (acme aero)
    that picture is what i am referring to, the safety cable fitting on cabane V hit upper end of shock and prevented it from rotating up as gear went up(out)

  12. #12
    spinner2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    their problem was with upper atlee safety cable tab/plate interfering at full extensions... though Burl will not except this answer
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So I think you're saying that if the cable tabs shown here flop down the top of the AOSS could pinch the tab and cause a bind. This could only happen if the wheel was extended out enough to allow the AOSS to pivot up more than normal.

    Though hard to see in the image I've got a black plastic tie holding my two tabs as close together as they'll go to prevent the problem. I may change this to .041" safety wire. that would be more durable, yet easily break if the top cables ever were tight.

    BTW, these are cables that I made up for my experimental. Other cables and tabs probably fit differently.
    Last edited by spinner2; 10-20-2016 at 10:34 AM. Reason: added comment
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  13. #13

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    [QUOTE=Mauleguy;671540


    The rod end is a weak link without question and I would not put them on my airplane (acme aero)[/QUOTE]

    That does appear to be the case, I would like to see some test data though. And I'd like to talk to someone who has put them through some abuse. I'm interested to a degree, but Leary at the same time. Safety cables would be a must for piece of mind

  14. #14
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    ..I would like to see some test data though. .
    I go more by postmortem failures I've repaired/fixed for ferry flights, and they damage they cause... bust a gear or component in it, in tundra that might net you 4 spars and a fuselage bent in half... even if you stay dull side up

  15. #15
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I don't see how you can compare this to ASOS if it is not certified. Having seen what Burl went through to certify the ASOS I would like to see this shock put through the same and then give Greg, Alec and Lonnie a pair for real world testing.
    Steve Pierce

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    There are lots of TK1s installed and working hard in the field. Some guys have replaced AOSS with TKs and the pireps are good. This single shock model has some promise. I won't be surprised to see a gas shock hydrosorb replacement get STC'd fairly soon. I'll be more surprised if one doesn't.

  17. #17

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    Performance of course is everything. I have been looking for a stock gear replacement. Just as a point of interest, with these Acme units, are you not back to the same failure points of hydrasorbs? That is seal loss, leakage etc versus the lack of that same failure point with AOSS?

    Also with regard to AOSS, do you all believe the interference issue with the Attlee Dodge cable tab has been solved with the new units?

  18. #18

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    Gentlemen, I appreciate the interest in our shocks. In reading over some of the comments I'd like to hopefully provide some clarity. We came out of the NASCAR and Baja racing worlds so even though we are new to the aircraft industry we are not new to building shocks. We were contacted by Just Aircraft to build their SuperSTOL shocks when they were having some issues with the previous shocks leaking. We saw an opportunity in the Cub world to do something different than what's out there so that's how we got here.

    The AOSS and TK1 systems are both great systems we just set out to do things a little differently. We wanted to create a shock that is safe, light weight, infinitely adjustable to control rebound and dampening however we wished across all the different applications, and the sprung weight and ride height to never be compromised in case something happened. We wanted you to be able to get home if something were to happen in the field. After 2 years of R&D and testing that's what we've been able to do.

    I read on here the concern over the 3/8" rod ends. We offer two different heim joints, 3/8" and 1/2". In a pull test the 3/8" heim pulled apart at 14,000 lbs and the 1/2" was above 22,000 lbs. Personally, aesthetically, I like the 1/2" on everything. The 1/2" obviously looks much beefier but the 3/8" performs well. The 3/8" heim was part of our shock set up that went through JSOC testing at Ft. Bragg and the shocks performed "better than advertised". Still, I would run 1/2".

    We have drop and pull tested the shocks. The FB Live video of the pull test is on our FB page. We broke a 5/8" grade 8 bolt at 18,000 lbs and finally pulled the top cap apart at over 22,000 lbs. The 1/2" heim was still holding on.

    We value feed back and constructive criticism and any questions you may have. Here are a few more details about our shocks to hopefully answer some general questions you may have:

    ·7075aircraft grade aluminum shock body and extension·Allstainless steel internal components·Anodizedaluminum parts for added corrosion resistance·Teflonlined self-lubricating mono-ball attachment points·Upto 4”of travel at the shock which equals 7-9” at the wheel·Totalsystem weight 12 lbs.·Dualinternal fail safe stops for safety·100%serviceability·Limitedlifetime warranty·Madein the USA by Veteran owned company·Testedto endure 22,000 lbs.·.375”or .5” lower heim attachment with 19,000 lb tinsel strength
    Thanks pfjay52 thanked for this post

  19. #19
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    I have failed stock Cub Gear components on rebound with skis installed.

    That is where my concern lays.

    i suppose with better rebound damping the failure mode I experienced would be alleviated.

    You state that your goal was "infinite adjustability" of damping.

    Did you acheive that? And how are you tuning? Clickers, shim valves, different orifices, fluid weights amd levels,
    Last edited by Dave Calkins; 01-07-2017 at 01:54 PM.

  20. #20

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    Dave, I completely understand. That was one of the parameters we were anxious to see. How would we perform on skis? Brian Turner has been bouncing them around for a few months now. We are learning a lot and feel like we are really close to getting them dialed in. It's been fun seeing trying to figure out the puzzle of having them work just as well on skis as on 29's.

  21. #21
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Where is Brian Turner? Can I fly his plane?

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    Ha! Brian had my TK-1s for several months and chose not to install them. That was before Tony updated the rod ends. Maybe he should try them to get a good comparison? He knows how to find me. ��

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    Dave, I can hook you two up easy enough.

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    We are making a change and sending a new set to Brian right now. Due to motion ratio we are going with a different spring. He should have them week after next.
    Likes C130jake liked this post

  25. #25
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Well. Adjustability wise.......I would like to tune them for myself.

    That is why I asked what kindof guts you have in there.

    Motorcycles and snowmachines and BICYCLES have the ability to click......some of them "...on the fly...."

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    There is some adjustability you would have. We do run low air pressures so if you wanted them stiffer you would let some air out and if you wanted them softer you would add air. Since the weight of the plane is supported by the internal spring we set that spring off of what we thought would be best for the weight of the plane. But we ended up being too stiff. We missed on our first shot but the next one should be perfect for SuperCubs

  27. #27
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Thanks Acme.

    Your product is a sea-change from hydrasorbs and bungees, in potential.

  28. #28

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    I'm guessing Brian is running Carbon Concept skis. Very light. One more thing to consider.

  29. #29
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    What is the travel and rebound rate. Just had a new Super Legend come through and the travel didn't seem very long and it seemed to come right back when we really pulled down hard on the wing. Unfortunately I didn't get to fly it.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    What is the travel and rebound rate. Just had a new Super Legend come through and the travel didn't seem very long and it seemed to come right back when we really pulled down hard on the wing. Unfortunately I didn't get to fly it.
    We have about 4" at the shock which equates to about 7-9" at the wheel depending on extension length. It would make sense that you didn't get to see the full rebound capabilities by pulling on the wing. I wish you had a chance to fly it to actually feel the difference. Darin at American Legend was one of the first to get a set and we have tweaked them to what he likes. The beauty of the design is if it's too stiff for you we can make it softer. I'd consider them more custom than one size fits all since preferences at different uses may call for a different set up on the exact same plane.

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    Also, we recently started testing a flat wire spring that will increase travel even more.

  32. #32
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Not flying a SC (but a RANS S-7S), I always try and keep any comments here, a SC site after all, somewhat pertinent to SC related subjects, and I think this qualifies, so here goes.

    I'm flying with AVWELD RAGE gear, (very similar to SC gear, A frames, cabane, etc., best mod I've done to the S-7) have been for the last 1500 hours, it has bungees and a airshock to control the rebound. It has worked great, I can splat it on and stay stuck down like a fly landing on a wall. I can pull on a wingtip and start rocking the plane, and it is impossible to get the other side tire off the ground due to the damping action. Other planes of the S-7's size, some with similar gear but no rebound controlling shocks, I can easily, after a few rocking cycles, get the other side wheel off the ground. It originally came equipped with 1380 bungees (2, 1 on each side, this is a 1320 lb. gross plane), but last year I replaced them with the 1380 HD bungees. I didn't like the way the plane would wallow a bit when at gross and taxiing on side hills, especially after I upgraded to larger wing tanks, though I was reluctant to do this as I REALLY liked the cush ride on landing, while I never bottomed things out.

    The HD bungees worked great all year, still cush enough while giving the plane a more solid feel, no more wallowing. But the last few weeks of ski flying, in down to single digit temps, but even in the low 20's, it seems like the bungees (10 months old at most) have lost their elasticity. The gear splays out like I'm way over grossed, even when I'm lightly loaded. Besides looking like hell, this makes it harder on the wheel ski retracter system to work the skis. Plus reduces my prop clearance. Yesterday before flying for over 4 hours, I took the shock struts off and was kind of hoping to find a bad bungee or some other sign as to what the heck was going on. Everything eyeballed fine, and no I have not made any particularly hard landings lately , too much fresh powder to do that if I tried.

    I'd imagine that in cold weather the bungees would be stiffer, and the ride would be rock hard, but these seem to loose their elasticity. You Alaska guys are probably laughing about now....., but do I have that right? What really gets me is last winter, while still on the regular 1380's, I didn't notice this problem of splayed out gear, the HD's seem to be looser in the colder temps the regular 1380's? So, while I have so far resisted any impulse to look into the new shock type/no bungees at all shock strut systems like the Acme, (and spending more money, again) I am getting REAL interested. My prop clearance during the winter is a real concern, I have to taxi up a steep snow ramp to get back to the hangar, plus the odd unseen drift in flat light, and I run a bigger then normal prop for my bird, a 78" Prince. I need to get my gear sucked up tighter. I like my gear a lot, replacing the shock struts and I guess getting rid of the bungees seems like the perfect solution. So, to AcmeAeroFab: keep us, and me in particular...lighter aircraft fliers in mind, our money is just as green as the SC guys!

    One last thing in the meantime I am going to try next, is to release a lot of air pressure, maybe all of it, from the FOX airshocks, maybe they are hanging up somehow, frozen maybe, and hampering the gear sucking back up/keeping it splayed out.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    So, to AcmeAeroFab: keep us, and me in particular...lighter aircraft fliers in mind, our money is just as green as the SC guys!
    Courierguy, we designed this shock to be adaptable. We change the internal configuration depending on gross and motion ratio which allows us to LOOK consistent across the board but custom fit any weight we need to. We did extensive testing on a Highlander which has a gross of around 1350-1400 but averages around 750-800. I said all of that to say, we can fit anything we need to for the most part.

  34. #34

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    Roddy McClean will have a set of our shocks for his S7 next week. We are also working with John Roberts at Avweld. He plans to run our shocks exclusively with his gear.

  35. #35
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    CourierGuy. Seems like bungees just aint made like they used to be.

    Cold weather bungees used to work in the cold.

    Nowadays it seems like even the cold weather bungees will "set" where they were stretched.

  36. #36
    Mush's Avatar
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    AcmeAeroFab, is there an STC available or in the works for these to be installed on a certified PA-18?

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mush View Post
    AcmeAeroFab, is there an STC available or in the works for these to be installed on a certified PA-18?
    We are exploring that option right now and will be going down that road in the near future. As you know that is a long and expensive process so I am not sure right now on time frame.

  38. #38
    courierguy's Avatar
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    John is a couple hour flight from me, I really respect his work and will start to badger him on a set of your shocks that will retro to my gear. Or should I badger you direct?!

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    John is a couple hour flight from me, I really respect his work and will start to badger him on a set of your shocks that will retro to my gear. Or should I badger you direct?!
    Tom, I sent all the measurements that pertain to the Roberts Gear that I have to Acme Aero plus two or three good pictures. They're making shocks specific to what I sent them, and, based on a 1232lbs gross wt (which is rarely exceeded). My Roberts Gear is 3" taller then stock gear and swept forward 2-3".
    When my plane is sitting on a level floor with 3/4 fuel, bolt Center to bolt center measures 27".
    I'd recommend sending your specific #s to them just in case my Roberts gear is slightly different then yours. Really looking forward to getting these things!
    Thanks
    Roddy

  40. #40
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Thanks Roddy, I called Roberts right after my last post, and got things going.

    The more I think about it, there isn't nothing wrong with my gear, just the ( what seems to be who knew) "warm weather" bungees. Maybe it's time to move on from bungees altogether, used for aircraft suspension since 1908 or so.

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