BradleyG
SPONSOR
Dallas, TX
The issue was not the flying skill of the touchdown. It was the decision making and the management of the situation made in a very few moments, based on experience, training, and a lifetime of aviation knowledge!
Sully
- Thread starter PerryB
- Start date
The issue was not the flying skill of the touchdown. It was the decision making and the management of the situation made in a very few moments, based on experience, training, and a lifetime of aviation knowledge!
Cub junkie
Registered User
My Moms basement
The outcome is what's important and what gave the money ho's of Hollywood a twinkle in their eye, a genuine feel good story. I won't second guess anything that day. I went back to my log book to see how many departures I made off that runway in the 8 years I flew the 757 and the number is 42. I always have an escape route in mind and I'm glad the crew did in this case. On july 7th of '08 one of my friends was faced with a worse scenario than this. Les Abend wrote about it in Flying magazine in 2010. If interested the name of the piece is "Before Sully & Skiles". Airline jockey's will always be paid for what they do when the sh*t hits the fan, in normal ops give me a couple of monkeys and a bunch of bananas and I can train them to do the job. In the case of this intentional water landing the crew lived to tell why they did what they did. Didn't hurt that those commercial vessels where close by too.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Old guys rule.
Web
Web
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
You want a few grey hairs on your surgeon and your Captain!
A hero is someone who does his job when he is scared to death. That man's actions saved not only the lives of the passengers in his care but also of the people on the ground that would have died had he tried to land anywhere else.
Pete, your comment stunned me coming from you.
"Aviation is hours of boredom punctuated by moments of stark terror!"
A hero is someone who does his job when he is scared to death. That man's actions saved not only the lives of the passengers in his care but also of the people on the ground that would have died had he tried to land anywhere else.
Pete, your comment stunned me coming from you.
"Aviation is hours of boredom punctuated by moments of stark terror!"
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Thanks GeeBee, That is what I was looking for. A response from someone who had familiarity with the airplane without all of the uninformed general news media hipe. My intention was to stir the pot which was successful, though I will stand by my saying that anyone could have made the landing given 100 hours or more in type. Having flown in and out of KIDL/KJFK, KLGA and KEWR and the surrounding airports and seaplane bases for 40 years, the pilots made the only possible decision of where to land with minimum damage.
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
Sure you werent a politician in another life, Pete. Where is the part about 100 hours in type?
Do you realize that from the fertilizer hitting the ventilator to impact was less than 4 minutes. I doubt they ever got to the ditching checklist.
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I added the 100 hours to try to make the doubters feel more comfortable. As GeeBee said the check list is long, your right 4 minutes is tight.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I thought that you were practicing with the engine shut down?
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
Correct. And why do you think I would do that?
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
I think Sully did a great job, but I agree with Pete. After impact and flameout your looking down on 5 million souls and a 100 billion dollars of very sharp pointy real estate leaving no chance what so ever. Then you look West at a tranquil level surface, any other choice would be fools gold. If it had happened one day later the story would be totally different. The day after the event the river was choked with car sized chunks of ice that had broken apart up river and filled the river where they ditched the day before.
Glenn
SC3CM
Registered User
Maybe so, but in a time where every possible angle to create some negative drama and bad PR about anything and everything, it's kind of nice to have a feel good story once in a while.
The landing might have been no big deal, but evacuating a plane on dry ramp in 75 degree sunny day temps brings risk to it. He did a good job getting everyone home safe. That's what he fats paid for. He doesn't seem to have gone beyond the obligatory few talk shows and doesn't seem to be spinning this much more than you, so good on him. Seems like a standup guy who did a full day's work and got cheated out of some time in the logbook that day.
Rene
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
I wonder if he had a float rating?;-)
Good movie. My chief pilot saw it early today and told me to go see it. I understand it is based on the book, including the tenner of the NTSB.
The decision to land in the water does seem a bit simple NOW, but think about being responsible for 155 lives, and the casualty expectation of a water landing; would you have been able to make that choice?
It boiled down to the crew doing their job when things were very bad. They did it with professionalism. Ensuring everyone was out...
I tip my hat!
With the piece of cake landing how many would volunteer to get on the same plane and let someone else replicate the wings level landing? I have some I wouldn't even get in a plane with that land on smooth runways or water Want to see the movie but haven't been to one in years may have to change that.
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
What a surprise, the NTSB is unhappy with the movie...""We're not the KGB. We're not the Gestapo," said Robert Benzon, who led the National Transportation Safety Board's investigation. "We're the guys with the white hats on." The NTSB said it was not contacted during the scriptwriting or filming of Sully. Benzon is now retired."
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/101/3435-full.html?ET=avweb:e3435:305637a:&st=email#226929
"The guys with the white hats on?" Oh, please....
Randy
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/101/3435-full.html?ET=avweb:e3435:305637a:&st=email#226929
"The guys with the white hats on?" Oh, please....
Randy
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mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
I think you have to separate the actual event into parts. The water landing was well done, but as Pete noted, most rated airline pilots could probably have pulled that off.
BUT, the decision to make that landing in the river, under the kind of pressure and in the time frame that it was made.....THAT was brilliance. This was a cool, competent crew that did exactly what they needed to do, when they needed to do it. A few seconds one way or another may well have changed the outcome substantially.
I found it interesting that both Sullenberger and Skiles quit the job after this event. I don't know what precipitated that, but I have a small inkling of what it takes to get into either seat of a major airline, and that's not something that you give up lightly. And I seriously doubt either of these guys feared that they'd have to land in a river in an airliner again. I'm betting that the NTSB wasn't that nice to deal with, post accident, "White hats" or not. I'm glad both pilots have successfully moved on from this event.
In any case, good for those two professionals for getting through a double engine failure at low level in the middle of one of the biggest metroplexes in the world without hurting ANYONE.....then to walk away with grace, and again, professionalism.
MTV
BUT, the decision to make that landing in the river, under the kind of pressure and in the time frame that it was made.....THAT was brilliance. This was a cool, competent crew that did exactly what they needed to do, when they needed to do it. A few seconds one way or another may well have changed the outcome substantially.
I found it interesting that both Sullenberger and Skiles quit the job after this event. I don't know what precipitated that, but I have a small inkling of what it takes to get into either seat of a major airline, and that's not something that you give up lightly. And I seriously doubt either of these guys feared that they'd have to land in a river in an airliner again. I'm betting that the NTSB wasn't that nice to deal with, post accident, "White hats" or not. I'm glad both pilots have successfully moved on from this event.
In any case, good for those two professionals for getting through a double engine failure at low level in the middle of one of the biggest metroplexes in the world without hurting ANYONE.....then to walk away with grace, and again, professionalism.
MTV
Scouter
SPONSOR
Exeter Maine
Pete, Eddie, GEE BEE
Other than the gps, is there any other instrumentation in modern jets that would have let them cycle thru the nearest airport list, and analyze the outcome of the diversion? I often wondered why if he had altitude to make the river, why he couldnt return to Laguardia.
Im sure the pilots looked at all the available airports close by, just wondering what they would have used to make the call to ditch. Their brains I guess. Looking forward to the movie. The last Hanks movie I saw he was a Captain on a hijacked ship at sea. His fake new england accent gave me a headache.
Jim
Other than the gps, is there any other instrumentation in modern jets that would have let them cycle thru the nearest airport list, and analyze the outcome of the diversion? I often wondered why if he had altitude to make the river, why he couldnt return to Laguardia.
Im sure the pilots looked at all the available airports close by, just wondering what they would have used to make the call to ditch. Their brains I guess. Looking forward to the movie. The last Hanks movie I saw he was a Captain on a hijacked ship at sea. His fake new england accent gave me a headache.
Jim
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
Not on any airliner I flew. I am typed in 727, 767, MD 11, and A310. ATC was giving him great situational help as to airports. He asked about Teeterboro.
I think his gut told him that trying for LGA and probably down wind was a bad idea. I totally agree. Trying to limp it back to to runway you took off from has killed many people.
The plane departed rwy 4 and hit the birds at 2818 msl and 4.4 mile from the approach end of 22. The simulation was run at Toulouse and showed it would have been possible to barely make Rwy 13.
Sully didnt have the benefit of trying it in a sim where you can freeze and reset. The Hudson was a much bigger target.
I ejected from an Air Force aircraft once that was trying to kill me. I was asked a lot of "what ifs.". I had to make a split second life or death decision and am satisfied that I made the right one today. I was hurt and spent a month in the hospital but I cheated the Grim Reaper. I would do it exactly the same way today. I am certain Sully would do the same thing today also.
I think his gut told him that trying for LGA and probably down wind was a bad idea. I totally agree. Trying to limp it back to to runway you took off from has killed many people.
The plane departed rwy 4 and hit the birds at 2818 msl and 4.4 mile from the approach end of 22. The simulation was run at Toulouse and showed it would have been possible to barely make Rwy 13.
Sully didnt have the benefit of trying it in a sim where you can freeze and reset. The Hudson was a much bigger target.
I ejected from an Air Force aircraft once that was trying to kill me. I was asked a lot of "what ifs.". I had to make a split second life or death decision and am satisfied that I made the right one today. I was hurt and spent a month in the hospital but I cheated the Grim Reaper. I would do it exactly the same way today. I am certain Sully would do the same thing today also.
MTV, I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the professional response on this topic. Well said!
Roddy
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
I didn't want to be that guy, but a few others posted up. Great job, but not gods.
It was the right day overall. If you had to pick scenarios, any number of variables could have ended it in a tragic state instead. IFR, or worse, at minimums. Runway change for departures. 500' -1000' less altitude at the occurrence. Departure route.
But, luck was in their favor, and as mentioned above, no ice in the river. Landing on ice floes would have probably broken the plane apart prior to stopping.
Sullenberger and Skiles did the right job, and did the job they trained for. 6 mon recurrence training is there for a reason.
And while Sully was able to write his own ticket after, I hope Skiles enjoys a good life as well. (I believe Skiles flys for AA now). Any crew that puts it down safely deserves high recognition. The Glimli Glider and a few others fall into this category as well.
Making a a movie about it? No, not for me.
While Skiles was running the checklists and attempting restarts, I believe the most important thing he did was to evaluate the options quickly, make a decision, and stick with it.
It was the right day overall. If you had to pick scenarios, any number of variables could have ended it in a tragic state instead. IFR, or worse, at minimums. Runway change for departures. 500' -1000' less altitude at the occurrence. Departure route.
But, luck was in their favor, and as mentioned above, no ice in the river. Landing on ice floes would have probably broken the plane apart prior to stopping.
Sullenberger and Skiles did the right job, and did the job they trained for. 6 mon recurrence training is there for a reason.
And while Sully was able to write his own ticket after, I hope Skiles enjoys a good life as well. (I believe Skiles flys for AA now). Any crew that puts it down safely deserves high recognition. The Glimli Glider and a few others fall into this category as well.
Making a a movie about it? No, not for me.
While Skiles was running the checklists and attempting restarts, I believe the most important thing he did was to evaluate the options quickly, make a decision, and stick with it.
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Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
This is a good reconstruction of the flight from back in 09. They worked hard to get them running again.
https://youtu.be/tE_5eiYn0D0
https://youtu.be/tE_5eiYn0D0
js170b
SPONSOR
Oregon, WI
I have heard the story several times from a person close to the incident, and I was expecting to be disappointed by the movie, but I really enjoyed it. It was entertaining, but also really got into the emotional aftermath and trauma from the incident, and this was what I thought was most interesting from a pilot's perspective.
Jeff Skiles is currently flying for American (A340s), but also is a big advocate for GA. He worked for several years for EAA before returning to the airlines and wrote many articles about GA and even several about backcountry flying in Utah and Idaho after spending time flying his 185 both places. One thing the movie left out was the role US Airways played in the aftermath, as both pilots were unhappy with the complete lack of support from the airline. The union stood by them but the airline immediately moved to distance themselves from the crew, and this was only touched on briefly in the movie. I think Skiles was more upset with the airline than the NTSB.
Also not in the movie: it is rumored that as soon as the plane came to a stop, both pilots turned to each other and said: "Well that wasn't too bad"!
Jeff Skiles is currently flying for American (A340s), but also is a big advocate for GA. He worked for several years for EAA before returning to the airlines and wrote many articles about GA and even several about backcountry flying in Utah and Idaho after spending time flying his 185 both places. One thing the movie left out was the role US Airways played in the aftermath, as both pilots were unhappy with the complete lack of support from the airline. The union stood by them but the airline immediately moved to distance themselves from the crew, and this was only touched on briefly in the movie. I think Skiles was more upset with the airline than the NTSB.
Also not in the movie: it is rumored that as soon as the plane came to a stop, both pilots turned to each other and said: "Well that wasn't too bad"!
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
I think Sully's decision to quit USair and the business had a lot to do with the pay and benefits situation at that airline. This was before AA aquired them. They had already essentially lost their pension. Plus, I will wager that better opportunities were presented to him.
The airline business in general is a daily grind. I never looked back when I retired at 60. I could have stayed 5 more years but had had enough. Now the Air Force I do miss!
The airline business in general is a daily grind. I never looked back when I retired at 60. I could have stayed 5 more years but had had enough. Now the Air Force I do miss!
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