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C180 questions.

texmex

texmex

MEMBER
Hanging Rock, Australia.
Hi guys. I'm just dreaming and trawling the net looking at C180's.

So this is 'SuperCub' dot org. Where is the best spot for C180/185 chatter? Maybe we 'need' another sub chapter here? Looking for more maintenance discussions then anything else.

On the early C180's with (in my honest opinion) not so nice looking upside down control columns, does anyone supply a kit to change them out to the later style and different dash?

Cheers, Denis.
 
texmex said:
Hi guys. I'm just dreaming and trawling the net looking at C180's.

So this is 'SuperCub' dot org. Where is the best spot for C180/185 chatter? Maybe we 'need' another sub chapter here? Looking for more maintenance discussions then anything else.

On the early C180's with (in my honest opinion) not so nice looking upside down control columns, does anyone supply a kit to change them out to the later style and different dash?

Cheers, Denis.
Click to expand...
The Skywagon club is ok but really you'll get better/prompter responses right here at home, but a Skywagon thread leader under the my other plane is topic would be helpful.

And to your specific question I understand there is an STC to change the oldie panels to a more modern design and I have seen the yokes mounted upside down (bow up) to give more leg room.
 
Our 54 C-180 has an Avion panel update. Switches the radio to center stack. I don't know if it is still available?
 
I believe the old d-ring style control yokes (as used on the C170 & some C120/140's) were only used on the 53 C180's. 54 & later went to their own style. I've seen plenty of 53's with the later style yokes fitted, my own 53 model has rams horn yokes. I don't think they're as good looking as the later style original 180 yokes, but they are pretty ergonomic.

I gave up on the 180/185 Club site. Not much posting goes on there. I guess maybe there's an underground email back-and-forth thing going on, but I was a member & posted there for a year & never got in on it. Never renewed, as there's more & better skywagon dialogue here and on the backcountrypilot.org site.
 
Denis

Are you looking to change the column itself to the later 'U' style or just the yokes themselves? I don't believe changing the yokes is a big deal, as I'd consider it a minor. But I have seen several Cessna's with the late style column installed to facilitate installation of a 'stack' of radios. I didn't seem to be a big deal to get the paperwork approved.

Web
 
The projects I've seen done were careful to match the later model's layout and used all Cessna parts. It's minimal structure and you'll have to pay close attention to getting the new control cables rigged correctly.

Web
 
Knowing nothing about this idea, I'm thinking out aloud. Would the centre bushings where the control column comes out of the dash be in totally different locations? And therefore all the associated hardware behind the dash be different.

Lancef53 - Avion Panel have an active web site and some great pix. Thanks for those details.

Denis.
 
Thanks Web. We're posting at the same time. And me sitting in China and all. ;-)

Basically it's been done before and shouldn't be too hard. If I was to proceed down this path are there big names in C180 wreaking yards that would be the first port of call?

Denis.
 
Yes the bushings are in a different location. You'd need to copy the later model structure, just forward of the floating panel. But you'd need to do this for the short, left side, floating panel.

Web
 
I'd fab most of this from scratch. The lower cross piece (think about where the engine control cables and switches/breakers mount) might be some thing to rob for use or as a pattern.

I'm in Alaska. It's only a couple of time zones away from you, lol.

Web
 
Be mighty careful in changing locations of yoke slides and such.

The early 180's flew much different than the new stuff, like a sports car to a truck. You go changing geometry of yoke placement you might turn your ferrari into a 2 ton!

Don't know for sure, just tossing the red shirt into the wind as a caution.:nutz:

Seen simple changes become nightmares in feel.
 
I don't think relocating the height of the yokes is as easy as some would suggest. The yokes are attached to tubes that go through bushings in the panel and sleeve into stub tubes that are connected to pulleys and controls and such. Releasing the yoke tubes is as easy as removing one through bolt and pulling out. Relocating the foundation of the yoke stub would be a major bit of work. All that said, are the yoke heights different?

Panel replacement isn't too big a deal. The big desire for most guys is a center radio stack. With today's tiny radios and multi finction engine monitors you shouldn't have too much trouble arranging a panel layout. Here's a pic of my J panel taken down to the bones and reconfigured. All done in a friend's hangar using shop tools. Yes, some unexpected interference forced an unconventional instrument layout. Not a big enough deal for me to bother changing it.

My favorite used parts source- http://skywagoncity.com
 

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That looks fantastic Stewartb. My first solo was in a 180J. And as I'm edging towards fifty I must have a desire to feel younger again(without halving my house), hence the regular trawling of Barnstormers for 180's.

Anyone got a story about chaging panels as per photo's above?

Denis.
 
texmex said:
From this View attachment 27464 to something more like this.
Click to expand...

That panel looks pretty nice to me. You've already got centerstack radios.
Are you looking to totally remodel that panel, that can turn into a real investment of time & money.
Or do you just want to get the yokes up off your lap?
I know people who roll those yokes 180 degrees, as you described, not very attractive IMHO.
Fitting rams-horn style yokes isn't hard-- either find some off another model Cessna that will fit, or maybe get a set from WagAero.
I can't find it online, but it's their p/n 1-873-000 $59.95 USD each.
 
Here is the panel I built for mine back in 80's. I swapped the T yoke to the late U style and that requires replacing the aileron cables. I went with the late style control yokes with the padded center.







Instpanel.jpgInstpanel3.jpg
 

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Thanks Wingwrench. By 'T' yoke you mean what I call the upside down one which is shown above as the first photo. I think that's exactly what I have in mind.

Going by your 'Wingwrench' title I assume you fabricated it yourself. What new bits did you need? Or is it as simple as the same bits just relocated and different cables.

Reference Atango58's concern above, did it change the control feel?

Thanks,
Denis.
 
Are you looking to totally remodel that panel, that can turn into a real investment of time & money.
Or do you just want to get the yokes up off your lap?
Click to expand...

If I go down this road, it will be a long term proposition so would be happy to make the investment of time and money. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I just don't love the upside down control columns. As a kid our family aeorplane was a C180J and I loved that aircraft. But everyone says the earlier ones are lighter and fly much better. I did, propably 25 years ago, fly an earlier 180 and remember it as such.

But I'll be tyre kicking until my Bonanza reno is completed and sold. Easier said then done in this market.

Thanks, Denis.
 
texmex said:
Thanks Wingwrench. By 'T' yoke you mean what I call the upside down one which is shown above as the first photo. I think that's exactly what I have in mind.

Going by your 'Wingwrench' title I assume you fabricated it yourself. What new bits did you need? Or is it as simple as the same bits just relocated and different cables.

Reference Atango58's concern above, did it change the control feel?

Thanks,
Denis.
Click to expand...

It's just the control column from a late model 180. That is how a center stack of radios is possible. Instead of the column forming a 'T' shape, with the crossbar holding the stubs for the yokes, the column has a 'U' shape. You need to look under the panel of a late model or at least look at the parts book to see how this is layed out. This is also why I said to use Cessna parts for this mod.

Web
 
texmex said:
Thanks Wingwrench. By 'T' yoke you mean what I call the upside down one which is shown above as the first photo. I think that's exactly what I have in mind.

Going by your 'Wingwrench' title I assume you fabricated it yourself. What new bits did you need? Or is it as simple as the same bits just relocated and different cables.

Reference Atango58's concern above, did it change the control feel?

Thanks,
Denis.
Click to expand...

The yoke is behind the panel, mine came out of a 76' 185. The aileron cables are all that need to be replaced and yes I built it. I bought the airplane as a project and built it to my taste over a span of 6 years. I don't see how it would effect control feel, but I never flew it without it. Honestly, with today's avionics I don't see a need for it anymore.
 
I have the radio txp & intercom mounted below the main panel, down by my knees, and don't see that as a problem.
My nav device (8" tablet) is mounted front and center.
Surface mounted so it doesn't matter what's behind the panel.
 
I think there's some confusion over the terminology used:
"yoke" and "control wheel" are the same thing,
"column" is the vertical part behind the panel which the yokes connect to.
The earlier t-shaped column can create clearance issues with centerstacked radios.
The later u-shaped column eliminates those clearance issues, but requires some fitting and (usually) some paperwork.
Here's an illustration of a later u-style column (but I notice that they call it a yoke):


yoke-assembly.jpg



The t-column simply goes straight across, you can see where there'd be clearance issues with radios.
 
The "feel" referenced to later vs earlier 180/185 could also be due to the spring that is added to the pitch control system in the tail of the later 180/185's.

That spring, along with the slightly shorter "u-column" (less leverage over the elevators) of the later a/c, could make the pitch forces slightly greater. There is no question that the later a/c have a heavier feel.
 
My '53 180 panel. Flyable, but not finished. The rams horn yokes will be leather wrapped some day soon
 

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There's also no question that the later models are heavier. My empty airplane tail weight in 3-point is 200#. How does that stack up to your early model airplanes? Load it to 3190# and the tail feels like it's filled with lead. Guys talk about 185s being superior to 180s. My plane is more sporty when light and the feel diminishes as weight increases. Mine stops being "fun" to fly at around 3000# (tail weight at that weight is around 600#). It stops being useful on short strips before that. And that's why I never bothered buying the 185s I've had the chance at.

180s are great airplanes.
 
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