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Thread: Wipaire 2000 lbs gross weight increase?

  1. #1
    Tango Cub's Avatar
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    Wipaire 2000 lbs gross weight increase?

    Is the Wipaire 2000 lbs gross weight increase worth the money? At $3600 dollars would you get your money back if you sell it? I am recovering my cub now so it would be the right time it install it, but it the plane has flown just fine without it for 64 years. Is there a safety concern with flying @ 2000 lbs without it? Or is it a Fed thing?
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take but by the times that take your breath away

  2. #2
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Lots flying around without it but guys that fly for a living want it to be legal. Saw a Super Cub not sell because it did not have it. Pretty easy at rebuild, not so much once covered.
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers
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    aktango58's Avatar
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    Do it.

    As Steve says, when flying it for hire it is a need anymore.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  4. #4
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Let's see, you're flying that recently recovered cub and something happens.....could be most anything, a deer runs out in front of you as you land, a brake drags bad causing a ground loop, someone pulls out in front of you as you're landing, etc. So, the FAA comes to inspect. What do you suppose might be the first thing they say? Let's calculate a weight and balance. And that's when your stock cub has a 450 pound useful load, and your passenger wasn't "petite".

    Buy the kit and install it. No brainer.

    MTV

  5. #5
    Cubswede's Avatar
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    I bought it and will try to install on covered wings.. we´ll see how it works out..

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    I was happy to have it when flying long range in Canada 2008
    C-M
    The wandering raven

  7. #7
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    I have installed it on a covered airplane. Not so hard to do if the owner can handle seeing a few fabric "repairs".

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango Cub View Post
    Is the Wipaire 2000 lbs gross weight increase worth the money?....
    I think it'd be worth it just to be able to run one of those cool "one ton Cub" stickers!
    Can't seem to google up an image but it's a Cub lifting barbells.
    Seen another I think with a Cub in a biceps pose.
    Last edited by hotrod180; 01-14-2017 at 11:08 PM.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  9. #9

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    Ill give ya a 1 ton cub sticker for say...1500?
    I haven't stuck mine anywhere yet.

    Install the kit now, hard to do later.
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  10. #10

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    I have the STC on my cub but want to put bigger wings on it(will change current wings). Just the parts are half the price for the STC, I am willing to pay that because I am old and may not be here that long, so when I want to sell It is better to have a working cub, than a play cub in the eyes of the FAA. WHAT FLY AND WHAT IS LEGAL THAT IS WHAT MATTERS!!!!
    DENNY
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  11. #11
    Cubswede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    I have installed it on a covered airplane. Not so hard to do if the owner can handle seeing a few fabric "repairs".
    Interresting. I am about to do exactly this. My concern is how much the fabric will pull/displace the ribs that is to be cut. Did you have any problems when you did this job? How many ribs outboard/inboard of the doubler did you open the fabric?
    Did you cut the "H" shape as Mike MCS repair is describing in another thread?

    My wings are cotton, and I will keep the cotton because is is in very good condition. I will be certain to remove all the dope and let the babric "rest" for a while before I do the cuts. Otherwise I believe that the fabric will shrink, and I will have a vey big gap to sew..
    I will also mark all the points where to put the needle through the fabric, to get a "good looking" stitch.

  12. #12
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    No problems with that at all. I do not rcall what shape cuts I made.

    This was really a simple deal and the parts WipAire provided were first class as expected from those folks!

    knowing that failure mode of an overloaded wing is the rear spar "twisting" followed by buckling, experimental guys can easily beef up the rear spars by installation of stiffening structure to the top rear spar "cap" in any number of ways. Javron's method is simple and lightweight. Also the stiffeners as Piper placed on the Pacer are simple, though nothing like Javron.

  13. #13
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    you cut a wide "H" on top of wing going to the farther away rib to allow sliding stiffener in from that side... do not crease fabric, roll it over some round shipping cardboard tubes and tape in place while you are working

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    cubpilot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubswede View Post
    Interresting. I am about to do exactly this. My concern is how much the fabric will pull/displace the ribs that is to be cut. Did you have any problems when you did this job? How many ribs outboard/inboard of the doubler did you open the fabric?
    Did you cut the "H" shape as Mike MCS repair is describing in another thread?

    My wings are cotton, and I will keep the cotton because is is in very good condition. I will be certain to remove all the dope and let the babric "rest" for a while before I do the cuts. Otherwise I believe that the fabric will shrink, and I will have a vey big gap to sew..
    I will also mark all the points where to put the needle through the fabric, to get a "good looking" stitch.
    Curiosity is killing me...... how old is your cotton? That went out of style such a long time ago. I have lots of experience with it and loved how you could get beautiful results.
    My concern is that I have seen great looking cotton fabric that wouldn't come close to passing a punch test.
    One area might pass and another would not. (Depended on how well the silver was applied and if hangared.
    If it were mine I would think twice. If you ever want to sell it the cotton will kill the value.
    Ed

  15. #15
    Cubswede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubpilot2 View Post
    Curiosity is killing me...... how old is your cotton? That went out of style such a long time ago. I have lots of experience with it and loved how you could get beautiful results.
    My concern is that I have seen great looking cotton fabric that wouldn't come close to passing a punch test.
    One area might pass and another would not. (Depended on how well the silver was applied and if hangared.
    If it were mine I would think twice. If you ever want to sell it the cotton will kill the value.
    Both wings was recovered in the beginning of the 80:s. Then in 1984 the plane had a slight damage to the left wing tip, and has been grounded since. The wings has been stored in a heated maintenance hangar in an dark area/storage room. I did the strip test methode as per AC 43-13 and the cotton showed as new specification. I thought it would be a unnessesary job of recover them now. It can be done when they get bad for real. a wing recover job also takes some time. And time is not what I have at the moment..

  16. #16

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    If your wings are ready to fly just put them on and go. Save the upgrade until recover or next repair unless you really need the weight upgrade to be legal. Small projects like this can snowball quickly and take years to get under control.
    DENNY
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  17. #17
    cubpilot2's Avatar
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    I am with Denny on this one. Unless you really need the GW increase at this time, go fly.

    You will most likely discover that the 30 year old finish on the cotton will not be very flexible and will tend to "ringworm" or crack easily. The old "rejuvenating" process was designed to extend the life of the finish but isn't worth the labor.
    When it gets ugly then take a knife to it and do the upgrade then.

    Im sure that you have checked; but mice and small birds in storage hangars love to find homes in wings. Rib stitching is very tasty to mice.
    Ed
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  18. #18
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    A friend of mine recovered the wings on his Luscombe last year.
    The irish linen fabric was in good shape, but the (cotton?) rib stitching was starting to fail.
    So there's to it than just punching the fabric.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    txpacer's Avatar
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    Since I'm pulling my SC down for a rebuild, I'm thinking about adding the 2k gross weight kit. Mine is a PA-18-135 (L-21B) that has been STC'd up to 1750 lb with an O-320. The AML on the FAA website only says PA-18-150. I called Wipaire, and they say my plane is good for it, despite what the AML says. Anyone have any experience installing this STC on other than a -150 SC?

  20. #20
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    It covers all of them even the 13 rib wings.
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers
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  21. #21

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    Mine is an 18-135 (now with 160) and I put the wipaire kit in 2 yrs ago. Ppwk is good

  22. #22
    Christina Young's Avatar
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    Me too, original L-21b was 135 now 160... installed Wipaire 2k gross wt kit in 2007...
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  23. #23
    txpacer's Avatar
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    It looks like I'm going to have a one ton Cub. Thanks for the info.
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    Anyone have pictures of a "post op" wing that had the 2,000 lb mod done on a covered wing? Interested in the H pattern Mike described and what the fabric repairs look like.

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    Worth doing, as it make your cub more here in AK for the extra load, and resale value.....but, I never could rap my head around drilling holes in the spare the make them stronger....I know,, I know, it's just in my head.....Scott
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  26. #26
    Grant's Avatar
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    We will be installing one in a couple of weeks. We will be taking a lot of photos.
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    Gross weight increase photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    We will be installing one in a couple of weeks. We will be taking a lot of photos.
    Hello All,

    Does anyone have photos of the wing modifications for the GW increase that was completed with wing fabric on? I have reviewed the mod pre fabric, but I am looking for first hand experience and during and after photos with covered wings.

    Thank you!

  28. #28
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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  29. #29

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    Perfect. Thank you.


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  30. #30

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    Do it!
    I flew 2008 from Fairbanks Alaska to New Foundland and had the 2000# grosweightincrease. I was realy happy. How offen did I fiy overgross becouse of the fuel I needed. Canadaa is huge. Same in Alaska. I flew FAI to the north east Colleen River and back. Needed because of bad weather back 10 gls more. I made it with 3-4 gls left.
    C-M.
    The wandering raven
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  31. #31
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corvus-migrans View Post
    Do it!
    I flew 2008 from Fairbanks Alaska to New Foundland and had the 2000# grosweightincrease. I was realy happy. How offen did I fiy overgross becouse of the fuel I needed. Canadaa is huge. Same in Alaska. I flew FAI to the north east Colleen River and back. Needed because of bad weather back 10 gls more. I made it with 3-4 gls left.
    C-M.
    Good advice that ^^^ .

    MTV
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  32. #32

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    This wing looks very familiar
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
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  33. #33
    Grant's Avatar
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    Tom, Thats the same way I do it.

    I would suggest that anyone doing this to consider doing it the way shown by RaisedByWolves and Me. It's the easiest way...(Wipaire tells you to cut a giant rectangle in the wing....)



    1. Mark it of with tape
    2. Sand to feather the areas you plan to put the patch.
    3. Then glue the patch on only the FWD side of the cut.
    4. Then cut the fabric being sure to remove a slot about 1.5 to 2 inches, roll it forward and tape out of the way. (The reson to cut the slot is so the patch can shrink up and retighten the fabric. We did not do it on this job but have on others - WAY EASIER!)
    5. Do the work then restitch from left to right and front to back using the original holes. Each stitch will be its own stitch, not linked to another.
    6. Glue the fabric, shrink, and finish


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    Last edited by Grant; 03-22-2021 at 07:08 PM.
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  34. #34
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    I haven’t done one on a covered plane. Saw the pics online and saved them.


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  35. #35
    supercrow's Avatar
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    I have done just one and did it in that manner. Not a big deal just think it out ahead of time and move carefully. Took a few hrs, but could be done quite a lot faster if done again. It is going to show but is worth it if you need the increase.
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  36. #36

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    Does anyone have a good estimate on the labor hours for installing the WipAire 2000 lb STC components on the wings? I am going to have that done during recovering. I am just wandering what to budget for for the installation cost.

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    The internal wing mods don't take long if you do it during recover. Mine took about 5-6 hours for both sides (after opening the fabric). You will also need to weld in a small tube between door and front passenger seat cross tube.

  38. #38

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    Thank you bdf777. That is exactly the experienced answer I was seeking. WipAire states 30 hrs installation, but doesn’t break it down.
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  39. #39

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    Any recommendations on the best Pawnee tailwheel spring to use for the 2000 lb increase? I see both 3 leaf and 4 leaf configurations. I will be installing Atlee Dodge 3” extended gear and 8.50x6 tires. I suppose the optimum is to re-camber/re-heat treat, but I am trying to obtain the best “off the shelf” Pawnee spring for the 2000 lb STC.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfd777 View Post
    The internal wing mods don't take long if you do it during recover. Mine took about 5-6 hours for both sides (after opening the fabric). You will also need to weld in a small tube between door and front passenger seat cross tube.
    There's a bolt on option so you don't have to do any welding on a covered airplane.

    Don

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