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Thread: C180 middle seat harnesses

  1. #1

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    C180 middle seat harnesses

    Hello folks-
    I am always amazed at the depth of experience on this site, so thought to ask here for middle seat harness options in the "soon-to-be-ours" '73 Cessna 180J we're acquiring. I posted this question on the BCP website as well, so pardon the repeat question if you read or answered it there.

    We're putting the B.A.S. harnesses in the #1 & #2 seats. Have read about stock front shoulder harnesses being installed for the middle (jump) seats, but I'm looking for an "H" or "Y" harness for the youngsters. Prefer them having straps on both sides so they are held more firmly in place.

    Has anyone installed the Hooker harnesses for the #3 & #4 seat positions?

    Any other options for H or Y harnesses in those middle seats?

    Thanks,
    Johnny
    metrowest Boston
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  2. #2
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Try looking on the NHRA web site and any race car site for there rules on seat/ shoulder harnesses. It's interesting how they want the restruant systems built. That might influence you on what you want to install, please let us know if that was at all helpful. I'm also not a big fan of the cross body strap shoulder harness.

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    stewartb's Avatar
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    There's no structure to attach a seat-centered Y harness in the rear seat rows so the best alternative is a single cross strap attached to the provisions that are already in the plane. You might find somebody to sew you an offset Y strap that attaches aft and to the side of the occupant but using it will force the occupant into the side of the airplane during deceleration. A cross strap won't. The cross strap may not be perfect but it's a heck of a lot better than no harness. (Shoulder strap custom made by Hooker.)
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  4. #4
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    The early 180's had factory provision for center mounted middle row shoulder restraints. Nutplates and structure are in the aircraft already.

    I am away from my manuals til September, so I cannot reference for you on your '73 model
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    stewartb's Avatar
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    Huh. I never paid attention and wouldn't have used it anyway but this photo may show a nut plate in that rib. And this is a 180J. FWIW drawing 59-A on page 318 on the parts manual shows a cross strap at both front and second row. It required ordering the lap and shoulder belts at the same time, probably to get the proper post and slot buckle connection. If those holes do have nut plates I'll have a couple of rings installed and a new cargo net attach location pronto. Thanks Dave!
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  6. #6
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Just looked. No joy. No nut plate. It appears to be a provision for one but that arch is flimsy. Just a formed shape in thin aluminum. Two fingers can flex it easily.
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    algonquin's Avatar
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    Just a thought, the PA28 has a STC'ed setup that they rivet a re-enforcement plate in the top of the fuselage and put shoulder harnesses in. You might be able to use some of the infro to get a field approval. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

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    I'll be picking up the plane on the 12th and will take a look see to assess what is (or isn't) under the headliner...

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    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    Just a thought, the PA28 has a STC'ed setup that they rivet a re-enforcement plate in the top of the fuselage and put shoulder harnesses in. You might be able to use some of the infro to get a field approval. I'll see if I can find it and post it.
    Shoulder harness no field approval needed Tom.

  10. #10
    supilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    The early 180's had factory provision for center mounted middle row shoulder restraints. Nutplates and structure are in the aircraft already.

    I am away from my manuals til September, so I cannot reference for you on your '73 model

    Dave, I’m just curious where it states that Cessna intended for this structure to be used for shoulder harnesses. I’m probably going to end up doing the same in my early 180. Just want to learn more about it. Thanks, Ben

  11. #11
    stewartb's Avatar
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    It seems unlikely that Cessna incorporated Y harnesses into anything in the '50s but if there's a hard point there? Why not use it? We think differently about seat restraints now compared to 65 years ago.

    What does your parts manual show for that attach point? For later models the rear seat harness is shown in the manual as a factory option. My installation copies that. I've never seen stock rear seat shoulder harnesses in a Cessna.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    It seems unlikely that Cessna incorporated Y harnesses into anything in the '50s but if there's a hard point there? Why not use it? We think differently about seat restraints now compared to 65 years ago.

    What does your parts manual show for that attach point? For later models the rear seat harness is shown in the manual as a factory option. My installation copies that. I've never seen stock rear seat shoulder harnesses in a Cessna.

    Yeah, my thoughts as well. I didnít see anything in the parts or service manual. I like the idea, I just thought the bulkhead flange and strap seemed a little too superficial to be used for a restraint.

    There is a fella that owns an STC for 3 (small) pax on the rear bench of an early 180, which also includes 3 Y shoulder harnesses. Iím trying to get pictures sans headliner of the shoulder harness setup from the STC holder, but no luck so far.

  13. #13
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Longley View Post
    Shoulder harness no field approval needed Tom.
    https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/media/shoulderpolicy.pdf
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  14. #14
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    If anyone has this mod here, do you have a picture without the headliner? A correction to what I said earlier, the triple harness is not part of the STC, but the design data can be purchased.

  15. #15
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    quick answer....I dunno

    The rivets at the aft end of the “strap” that reinforces the nutplate hardpoint are 5/32”diameter instead of 4’s like all the other rivets in the aft bulkhead. fyi
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  16. #16

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    Posted this on BCP as well.

    Iíve always wanted to install a set of shoulder harnesses for the rear seats (3 & 4). Never knew how best to attack it, since nobody that I know of sells a kit.

    Well, thanks to a comment by a BCP member and 3 minutes of Googling, I ordered a Cessna shoulder harness kit - SK185-52D (my s/n uses version 52D6). Never knew they existed from Cessna. Air Power had them in stock, and the total price for BOTH rear seats was $367. I thought it was a typo. Cheapest Cessna part Iíve ever purchased, and possibly one of the most important. Each kit comes with parts for both middle (or even rear) seats. New belts, bolts, bolt covers, everything.

    My version happens to be the cheapest one since the attach hardware was factory installed, but the other kits come with the necessary attaching hardware if it wasnít installed by Cessna.

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