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Potential starter issues on IO-520 powered 185

Tom3holer

Registered User
Cape Cod
Just flew home my newly acquired 185 with my IA.

Right off the bat we noticed an odd issue with the starter.
The engine,IO-520, was new in 2009 and has about 145hrs on it.
When cranking it seems to crank, not steady but in pulses, like fast,slower,fast,slower. Almost like on each compression stroke it slows down a bit then speeds up. The IA/Instructor thought it was a starter or clutch problem.
It cranks relatively fast just nor steady. I fly with and give dual to a pilot at our field that has a 185 on anfibs and his definitely cranks much more constant.

Any thoughts?

Tom
 
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Starter adapter is fairly common problem with these. Ours was acting similar and installed a reman a few years ago from niagra,solved problem.
 
if starter/batery is weak it will cause clutch not to grab well, and it will slip & cause wear on shaft that clutch is trying to grip... the wear will show up as long slivers in oil screen...

lesson is: don't use a worn battery or starter or you get the joy and cost $$ of changing clutch....

first thing to do is remove and clean all starter wire/connections all the way from battery.... also test bypass the starter switch and see if it cranks faster, common problems is starter switch(or keyswitch) contacts being burn and not engaging starter solenoid as well as it could..

welcome to airplane ownership! $$$$
 
Lotsa discussions about starters & adapters- esp when combined with a lightweight (MT) prop..
FWIW my 180 has an 88" Mac & the (heavy) Energizer starter & it works great.
 
Aeroshell 15-50 can make an otherwise happy starter clutch act oddly. If you're using 15-50 try switching to straight weight or X/C oil.
 
How old is the battery, I chased this a bit till the battery tested bad and solved it with a new battery, then the starter started acting up so I put a Sky-tec and between that and a big new battery and you could taxi it on the starter.
 
also, the starter may be "binding" where center rotating part is out of round, and rubs on it's outer "windings?"
 
Check your engine to airframe ground strap. There was an AD or S/B to install one. The original grounds were aluminum plates which wrapped around the lord mounts. Over time these break.

Also a tired starter solenoid can create this type of situation. I installed a Cole-Hersey which is made in South Boston. Haven't got the P/N off the top of my head.
 
That would be nice to taxi out on the starter, gave me a laugh.
Going to do an oil change Tuesday and the shop will get good look at the starter, associated wiring, and battery.

I noticed something else today also. I taxied over to the fuel pumps and noticed the engine stopped as though the starter was engaged. Turning the prop reverse you could feel the starter engaged, something that had not happened before or I didn't notice it.

Anybody have an approx cost of a rebuilt exchange or a new one?
My mech has had issues with the Skytec and id leary of using them.
 
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You'll have to start eliminating issues as you trouble shoot. Clean all big electrical connections. At the master solenoid, starter solenoid, starter, and battery. No one with any electrical sense relies on the aluminum wrap around plates, on the engine mounts, to ground the starter circuit. Put a ground strap from the crank case to the air frame. Make it the same size as your starter cable as it has to carry the same amount of current. Check for voltage drops across the master and starter solenoids, by placing a digital voltmeter across the large terminals, of each one, and cranking the engine for about ten seconds. There should be very little, if any voltage recorded. Anything more than a couple of tens of a volt and I would change the solenoid. Make sure battery voltage stays above about 9 volts while cranking. Anything lower than that means the battery may be reaching the end of it's life. Where is the battery located? Back in the baggage area or up front? If in the rear, remember that it's a LONG way up that cable to reach the starter, so make sure that run of cable is the correct size (2 gauge) and it's in good condition. And Skytech starters are good starters. Every time I've had to troubleshoot a 'bad' one out of the box, there have been grounding/connection issues.
I'll let you engine types comment on the Continental starter drive issues. But if it turns out you need a new one, you make sure to have fun with it, lol.

Web
 
Turning the prop reverse you could feel the starter engaged, something that had not happened before or I didn't notice it.


DON"T do that.... there is one? version of the clutch that can ruin the clutch spring going backwards... been long time ago, someone else will have to say which...
 
I may not have been valedictorian but I didn't fail. Just standard electrical logic, if 100 amps goes in on the hot lead, 100 amps will come out on the ground. Also, when you calculate the size of wire for a circuit, you need to consider the ground wire as p[art of total length when consulting the 43.13.

Web
 
I may not have been valedictorian but I didn't fail. Just standard electrical logic, if 100 amps goes in on the hot lead, 100 amps will come out on the ground. Also, when you calculate the size of wire for a circuit, you need to consider the ground wire as p[art of total length when consulting the 43.13.

Web

the wire is shorter.... less than a foot.... simple math...

but, I can't teach you :)
but, I CAN PREVENT you from misleading the others that are here to learn....
 
Wait a minute Tom, First thing to do is to put a charger on the battery overnight. That airplane has sat idle for months with very little if any use. It also has an electric clock which runs off the battery. Unless the clock fuse (mounted next to the battery box) was pulled during the inactivity, the battery will be run down. Charge it before you do anything else. Go ahead ask me how many batteries I threw away before I discovered this.
 
Fully charge the battery with a smart charger. Then test it witha battery tester. If it is 12 volts, Harbor Freight makes a good, inexpensive one.

Lacking a tester, attach a digital voltmeter to the starter leads and watch the voltage during start. It shouldnt drop below 9 volts or so.
 
Well we both agree on that last statement, lol

Web

I was taught to view electrical wiring like plumbing. Pressure is volts and flow is amps. When I studied fluid flow a million years ago, the circuit can only flow what the most restrictive element allows.

Sorry Mike, but i am with Webb.

During my rebuild I installed a ground from the starter to the airframe the same size as the Starter power lead. Whether it was needed is debateable but it was easy and gives me peace of mind. I didnt use the Piper braided strap from the engine to the mount. Partially because it was in bad shape. That method has worked for a long time, but I think mine is better.

IMHO! YMMV!
 
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That would be nice to taxi out on the starter, gave me a laugh.
Going to do an oil change Tuesday and the shop will get good look at the starter, associated wiring, and battery.

I noticed something else today also. I taxied over to the fuel pumps and noticed the engine stopped as though the starter was engaged. Turning the prop reverse you could feel the starter engaged, something that had not happened before or I didn't notice it.

Anybody have an approx cost of a rebuilt exchange or a new one?
My mech has had issues with the Skytec and id leary of using them.

In my IO-520 I had a similar experience - only somebody had put the wrong parts in the mag so the impulse was binding. Modified rebuilt my starter adapter, about $800 - http://modifiedaircraftaccessories.com/
 
Thank you all for all the suggestions.

Tuesday its coming in for a oil change and the starter/battery inspection.

True, it had not had much use for a couple of months but the 50 some odd minutes home should have charged it up plenty.
I am hoping for a weak battery but will see.

T
 
Thank you all for all the suggestions.

Tuesday its coming in for a oil change and the starter/battery inspection.

True, it had not had much use for a couple of months but the 50 some odd minutes home should have charged it up plenty.
I am hoping for a weak battery but will see.

T
More like 4 hours to get a full charge. 50 minutes may get you from 65% to 85%.
 
...
Sorry Mike, but i am with Webb.
...

thankfully for all of humanity, those who design electronic stuff understand this BASIC thing..... or else we would not have circuit boards, mosfets or other SMALL high power things....

it's not the distance to the end use that determine the trace size, its the distance of the trace being able to move the magic with the required voltage drop and heat.....

must be in the books you learned from???

crank case =~ big amp wire, fuselage =~ big amp wire... to connect those 2 for ONLY a few inches ONLY TAKES THE APPROPRIATELY SIZE WIRE TO CARRY THE AMPS THAT DISTANCE OF THAT WIRE!
 
but, I CAN PREVENT you from misleading the others that are here to learn....

I thought we were he to be mislead,:oops:

Hmm, maybe I need to learn electrical, because all I hear is: Charge your battery, clean your terminals then consider other items.:lol:

Those two take away about 98% of all my electrical issues of the past!
 
I agree with Bill and the others. Do a long slow charge on the battery. Night and day difference in battery performance.
DENNY
 
Tom, been there on two diferent SkyWagons. Start simple, borrow a good battery from someone, put it in only takes a couple of min. And it's easy. If that doesn't work check the voltage at the starter, as said above. If the volts are good: pull the starter and have it rebuilt, because if the starter adopt. Is bad you have to rebuild the starter anyway , part of the repair. Now if the starter adopt. Still slips as my buddy always said " you are f...ed . " I don't use Niagra air parts as they seem to alway fail all the parts, only my experience. Now the good news is on 180's the engine needs to slide forward and the 185 you can pull the top mount bolts and rock it forward. Good luck.
 
True, it had not had much use for a couple of months but the 50 some odd minutes home should have charged it up plenty.
I am hoping for a weak battery but will see.

T
You might think that this would be true, but it isn't. That battery needs a good charge before you look at anything else. Please believe me, I have been there.
 
I agree with Bill and the others. Do a long slow charge on the battery. Night and day difference in battery performance.
I've found that a de sulfate charger is the best. My 4430 John Deere tractor has two 12 volt batteries and wasn't doing the best for holding a charge. One caused the yellow light(not good) to come on my Battery Minder ODY de sulfate charger. It took a day or two but it brought the battery back and has been good for quite awhile. Really sold on the de sulfate charger. Been doing it to all my 12 volt batteries just because.
 
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