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Giving a J-3 the back country treatment

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overlandandover_land

Registered User
Santa Barbara CA/Newberg OR
Hey all, I was looking for some advice on giving a J-3 (with the C-90 engine) the bush plane treatment (STOL kit, Bush tires, climb propeller, etc) and was wondering if you all had advice on any modifications you would do. I don't want to do anything too drastic and have a fairly limited budget, but I still want to make it bush-worthy. Thanks! I attached a picture of the plane. IMG_20160123_153654.jpg
 

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Nice lookin Cub---limited budget ????----pour gas in and fly---you don't need anything else---buddy has a 90 H.P. cub and has a blast---AS IS !!!
 
Prop, safety cables, and 26 or 29 inch Airstreaks should give you the best bang for the buck. Looks like you have disk brakes move the caliper to the 10 o'clock position with the brake line on top. When was the last time you had a good inspection (sandblasted and inspected) of the gear? The lighter you stay the better for STOL work.
DENNY
 
DENNY, this was my grandpa's cub, and he gave it to me. He is incredibly meticulous and careful with his work, so I'm guessing that the gear was inspected recently.
 
Just wanted to say that cub is beautiful, I might be mistaken but I think I was in that hangar a couple weeks ago looking at it being built, Santa Ynez Correct?
 
overlandandover_land said:
DENNY, this was my grandpa's cub, and he gave it to me. He is incredibly meticulous and careful with his work, so I'm guessing that the gear was inspected recently.
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I wouldn't bet/guess on ANYTHING! Inspect airplane and the logs. Probably A-OK, but it's YOUR airplane now, no J3 is young anymore. There is a very good reason people pay in excess of $100K for a new cub.

Jack
 
McCauley prop and some 29" Airstreaks should make for some fun. Never tried VGs on the J3 but that is next.


 
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I was in a similar situation a couple years ago with my father's PA-18. He's done flying it and I get to use it until some point when he decides to sell it, and I wanted to get it set up for backcountry use. In talks with my mechanic and other experienced pilots, I settled on spending my money on the tires (31" ABW) and a belly pod. I already had a McCauley prop, and was told that was one of the other essentials. The only thing I'd still like to add at this point is a baby bushwheel, but all things in time. At this point I'm dumping as much money into AvGas and time in the air as possible rather than adding any other mods.
 
Brute said:
Just wanted to say that cub is beautiful, I might be mistaken but I think I was in that hangar a couple weeks ago looking at it being built, Santa Ynez Correct?
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Thanks! It is in Santa Ynez! My grandpa builds cubs for a hobby, so I think that he is in the process of building another. This one has been completed for a few years now
 
Awesome! Thought I recognized the poster, but I only met your grandfather for a couple minutes.

For those in this thread concerned, overlandandover's grandpa is an award winning cub builder..

not saying things shouldn't be looked over in any case though
 
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The very first mod I would get would be a fuel tank... 200 gallons.

Fill that up, and pump it into the plane. When you run out of the 200 gallons, then ask again. Until you have a bunch of time getting the feel of that bird, everything else will just complicate your life.

You can get the prop re-pitched for better static RPM if you feel like it, but learn to fly that wing.
 
DENNY said:
Prop, safety cables, and 26 or 29 inch Airstreaks should give you the best bang for the buck. Looks like you have disk brakes move the caliper to the 10 o'clock position with the brake line on top. When was the last time you had a good inspection (sandblasted and inspected) of the gear? The lighter you stay the better for STOL work.
DENNY
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What pitch would you guys recommend for the prop? I'm not too concerned about higher cruise speeds, but want to maximize STOL performance. Also, I was a little misleading with the way I worded the "I'm guessing that the gear was inspected recently" part. I will give it (and the logs) a look-over ASAP. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused!
 
aktango58 said:
The very first mod I would get would be a fuel tank... 200 gallons.

Fill that up, and pump it into the plane. When you run out of the 200 gallons, then ask again. Until you have a bunch of time getting the feel of that bird, everything else will just complicate your life.

You can get the prop re-pitched for better static RPM if you feel like it, but learn to fly that wing.
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I definitely agree. I will get as much time as possible in the cockpit, and the majority of the mods I would make are going to be a couple years off.

I just want to get some advice so that, when the time comes, I will have a plan laid out for what do modify.
 
I'm running a mccauley 1b90 71/41 on the 85 stroker in my champ and it does pretty well, don't have experience with anything longer/flatter though. I would second the gear inspection. I went through the gear on my champ recently and the trailing tube near the bottom (hub) was rotten. Inherited this plane from my father who bought it in the seventies and recovered it.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk
 
Dont go much beyond tires, check cables, VGs and prop. I vote Catto when he gets them approved. Light weight is everything in this case. And I will echo what has been said above, GAS GAS GAS GAS and GAS!
 
Now knowing that Gramps is more than the average Cub owner, I suspect your airplane is in "reasonable" condition. Yes, Buy gas.

I use to build custom .45 autos(back in the 80's before the factory's did it fairly cheaply). Beginner would give me a stock gun and $1000 to build it into a race gun. I'd suggest just smooth it up, new sights and a trigger job for $200 and spend the other $800 on ammo and/or reloading equipment. THEN think about a "better" gun.

Usually they had more gun than they could use.......Likewise, many if not most pilots(myself included) will never gain the skill to fly a stock Cub to the airplane's full capability ............ Maybe mods to help keep you from breaking it?

You can only do and/or haul so much on 90 HP..............

Jack

PS The best thing I could do to/for my airplanes is to lose about 40 pounds from around my waist and/or off my big butt!
 
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n40ff said:
Now knowing that Gramps is more than the average Cub owner, I suspect your airplane is in "reasonable" condition. Yes, Buy gas.

I use to build custom .45 autos(back in the 80's before the factory's did it fairly cheaply). Beginner would give me a stock gun and $1000 to build it into a race gun. I'd suggest just smooth it up, new sights and a trigger job for $200 and spend the other $800 on ammo and/or reloading equipment. THEN think about a "better" gun.

Usually they had more gun than they could use.......Likewise, many if not most pilots(myself included) will never gain the skill to fly a stock Cub to the airplane's full capability ............ Maybe mods to help keep you from breaking it?

You can only do and/or haul so much on 90 HP..............

Jack

PS The best thing I could do to/for my airplanes is to lose about 40 pounds from around my waist and/or off my big butt!
Click to expand...

Best mod ??? try a nice light Super Cub with 150 or 160--- think that is where the "Super" comes into play---meanwhile fly that J-3 till it is an extension of "you" good fun but the view up front in the Super is much more fun....geezer Dan
 
12Geezer2 said:
Best mod ??? try a nice light Super Cub with 150 or 160--- think that is where the "Super" comes into play---meanwhile fly that J-3 till it is an extension of "you" good fun but the view up front in the Super is much more fun....geezer Dan
Click to expand...

Solo a lite C90 J3 or Pa11 with the right prop will beat almost anything off the ground. My 11 with a seaplane prop turned 2700 taking off and with me in the backseat was airborne in 125' no wind. 50 to 75' with a little breeze. I soloed my 15 year old 105lb son on a calm evening and he was off in 40' 50'. That was before I discovered 25" Goodyear's or Bushwheels that lengthened the takeoff roll. Lite and RPM are all you need

Glenn
 
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Honor your grandfather, and keep it stock. Sure, put a big time climb prop on there, but don't do anything else until you have a couple hundred hours in the pattern with her.

Big tires are great for touchdown on stuff you probably don't need to be landing on, but they sap the handling when airborne. And in California there are not that many places to land off-airport anyway.

This airplane wouldn't have been Howard Goldman's way back when? He and Shy took over Sta Ynez in the 1970s.
 
bob turner said:
Honor your grandfather, and keep it stock. Sure, put a big time climb prop on there, but don't do anything else until you have a couple hundred hours in the pattern with her.

Big tires are great for touchdown on stuff you probably don't need to be landing on, but they sap the handling when airborne. And in California there are not that many places to land off-airport anyway.

This airplane wouldn't have been Howard Goldman's way back when? He and Shy took over Sta Ynez in the 1970s.
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It's actually Ellis Clark's. He moved out from Michigan a few years ago. Does Oregon have many off-tarmac landing areas? I'm going to be moving the plane up there fairly soon
 
Those aircraft are impeccably finished, and not designed for beater operations. If you want to look like a bush pilot, choose an aircraft that looks a little rattier - Ellis' gloss finish and perfect everything else is designed to look like a really good show Cub, not a bush mobile.

Choose your IAs carefully. The Ellis Cub I looked at had mods without approved data. For the C-90-12, approval is trivial, but the fuel tanks were kind of sketchy. I think the PA-11 wing would be a trivial field approval; my PMI gave me a field approval for PA-11 struts without batting an eye.
 
How many hours do you have? I have a modded J-3 with the C-85, front seat solo. Modifications were done when I bought it and learned in it. Only about 100 hours and am no where near figuring out how to use the planes capability. It all depends what you are using it for and how far you plan to go, lots of good info on the J-3 Cub forum, but most guys don't like modifying them.

I could easily drop probably 20 lbs from my plane. Remove 26" Airstreaks, remove safety cables, remove fuel steps, switch to lighter landing landing gear, remove shoulder straps, put on a wood prop, does dropping any of that weight make sense? Not to me at this point. As she sits, she's 806lb (actually weighed on scales, don't do that if you can avoid it, all are heavier than the factory said), heavier than a lot of what people say their cubs weigh (a lot not weighed on scales), about average for PA-11 weights I found. Another thing that adds weight but no way would give up having is the wing tanks, far better than carrying gas in the plane if that is the alternative, depends on the mission.

My advice would be 1) enjoy building time burning less than 5 gallons an hour (love that!) 2) don't modifiy anything that can't be easily undone 3) learn it stock so you know if what you changed did you any good 4) don't tell the other cub guys if you ever paint it a different color (mine's red and black, which melts the ice off really quick in the winter!). Mine was already modified and I learned in it so have nothing to compare it to, but I still love it.
 
My next one will be red with a yellow stripe and L-4 windows. I see nothing wrong with mods, just hate to see performance- sapping mods done on airplanes predominantly used on improved strips. But if you want to LOOK like a bush pilot, it is your choice and a valid one. Just remember what you are doing to handling and performance.
 
L-4 windows look nice. Agreed that if operating solely on pavement Bushwheels are mostly for show, and I do think they look cool so burn the money if you have it, easy to switch back to stock. From my stand point, at my skill level, in Alaska, everything I am intentionally doing at this point could be done with 8.00's (8.50's are not an option without getting new landing gear), but big tires may help in an unexpected off airport landing (not at lot of roads to land on up here), certainly provide some cushion to a 1940 frame, and are getting use on some long, well used but still unmaintained strips that could contain soft spots or larger rocks, swales, etc. Think it's hard to beat a J-3 as a LSA off-airport plane for a low time pilot unless you can afford a carbon cub.

There are actually a couple more things I would add to my plane if allowable: a battery operated transponder and LED anti-collision lights.
 
I have a battery powered strobe on mine. Don't fly over stuff you cannot safely land on? If I lived in Alaska, one of those ELTs that broadcasts lat/long and my health would be in order, along with a "spot".

I bet you could find a mechanic who would certify a transponder and strobes as minor alterations. And why can't you just put 8:50s on there? I think they fit the same rims as the 6:00.
 
Pretty hard to fly over only stuff you can safely land on unless you stay in the pattern, always look for a spot to put down just in case, and try to stay in gliding distance of those spots, but they aren't spots I would intentionally try to land. Always carry an InReach for two-way com and have an ELT, tested regularly. 8.50's do fit but Atlee STC is only available for 1 1/2" axles, Bushwheels STC is for both 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 axles, if PA-18 style gear.
 
I would go climb prop first - not much else is necessary. I had 29" airstreaks on my J3, but really they are mostly for aesthetics cause you can do a lot on 800s. fly it.
 
bob turner said:
My next one will be red with a yellow stripe and L-4 windows. I see nothing wrong with mods, just hate to see performance- sapping mods done on airplanes predominantly used on improved strips. But if you want to LOOK like a bush pilot, it is your choice and a valid one. Just remember what you are doing to handling and performance.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I want any modifications to be function-based, rather than solely to look cool.
 
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