Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Giving a J-3 the back country treatment
- Thread starter overlandandover_land
- Start date
bob turner
Registered User
The Ellis Cub I am familiar with has an 18 gallon tank in one wing and an 11 gallon tank in the other. No fuselage tank. Plenty of range, works fine.
Cub@H20
Registered User
It's actually Ellis Clark's. He moved out from Michigan a few years ago. Does Oregon have many off-tarmac landing areas? I'm going to be moving the plane up there fairly soon
Ellis is a good friend and I owned one of his J-3's a few years ago (NC92012). I'll bet your ship weighs in around 835 lbs. Unless it's been changed, your Cub has a C-90-12 with two 18 gallon wing tanks, a gel cell battery and a B&C 320 starter. You're already bumping into the MGL weight the way it's configured. Adding more stuff will further reduce your carrying capability. Enjoy it the way it is. Gary
Ellis is a good friend and I owned one of his J-3's a few years ago (NC92012). I'll bet your ship weighs in around 835 lbs. Unless it's been changed, your Cub has a C-90-12 with two 18 gallon wing tanks, a gel cell battery and a B&C 320 starter. You're already bumping into the MGL weight the way it's configured. Adding more stuff will further reduce your carrying capability. Enjoy it the way it is. Gary
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
bob turner
Registered User
I bet the paperwork says two 18 gal tanks. We found an 11 gal tank on one side.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Ummm, not according to the Type Certificate:
D. Model PA-11:
(1) A-65-3 of A-65-8
Engine Limits: All operations, 2300
r.p.m. (65 hp)
-1 lb. (-40)
(2) A-65-6 or A-65-9
Engine Limits: (same
as Item 311D(1))
+2 lb. (-40)
(3) A-65-14
Engine Limits: (same
as Item 311D(1))
+12 lb. (-40)
(4) C-85-8FJ or C-85-12 with Item 101,
3 or 8 propeller
Use actual weight and arm
Eligible on landplane only.
Engine Limits: All operations, 2575 r.p.m. (85 hp.)
Propeller Limits (with Item 101 propeller):
Static r.p.m. at maximum permissible throttle setting:
Not over 2350, not under 1950.
No additional tolerance permitted.
Diameter: Not over 72 inches, not under 70 inches.
NOTE: C-85-8FJ engine should be inst
alled in accordance with or equivalent
to Piper Dwg. No. SK-192. Because fuel valve is not accessible from rear
seat, rear cockpit must be placarded: "Solo flying from front seat only"
Page 13 of 21
A-691
Engines and Engine Accessories
- Fuel and Oil System (cont.)
311. D.
(5) C-90-8F (with propeller Item 5,
6, 7, 9, or 101)
Use actual weight change
(Bendix-Stromberg carburetor, Continental Part No. 530726 and engine
cooling baffles per Piper Dwg. 11258 Cha
nge E are required with this engine.)
Engine Limits: All operations, 2475 r.p.m. (90 hp)
Propeller Limits:
Static r.p.m. at maximum permissible throttle setting:
Not over 2350, not under 1950 for landplane and not under 2050 for seaplane.
No additional tolerance permitted.
Diameter: (with Item 5 propeller) not
over 71 inches, not under 69.5 inches.
(with Item 101 propeller) not
over 76 inches, not under 70 inches.
What am I missing?
MTV
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
My C90-8 in my 11 had an 0200 cam and timing, not my choice it came that way. It had a Mac 6948 that was 67" and when you poked the throttle it jumped off the ground.
Glenn
Ken Kennedy
FOUNDER
Lubbock , Tx
Two best mods besides 100LL are a good prop and 29" Airstreaks IMHO.
As far as a Catto goes...
From the J-3 / PA-11 TCDS
"101. Propeller - Wood (fixed or adjustable pitch)."
Sounds like a Catto is already named in the TCDS to me.
overlandandover_land
Registered User
Santa Barbara CA/Newberg OR
What diameter and pitch would you recommend for a propeller? Maybe a Mccauley 7141? I don't want to risk too high of an RPM, but want it biased more towards climb than cruise
If it was a certified prop I would tend to agree, but as I read it one who takes that approach might want to start practicing their best kicking and screaming in case of a challenge it could get ugly.
Ruffair
GONE WEST
Lower Chena
I have a C85 Stroker, with that prop in 39 (or is it 37, I'll look when gets home). It's the minimum allowed in the TCDS.
Love it.
BTW, you put vg's, CC's elevator gap seals, and ABW's 29" airstreaks, along with flat prop, you go like stink.
overlandandover_land
Registered User
Santa Barbara CA/Newberg OR
Just asked for a quote for a Catto prop with the nickel leading edge for my C90-12. I'll get back to you all when I get the price worked out
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Perfectly legal, the TCDS just calls for a wood prop with length and rpm limits. Did it on a Stearman the same way sever years ago. Unfortunately the PA18 TCDS is not written that way.
overlandandover_land
Registered User
Santa Barbara CA/Newberg OR
Does anyone know when the 26" ABW Experimental tires are coming out? The website says June 2016, but that's clearly not happening
behindpropellers
Registered User
NE Ohio
How many hours do you have in the J-3? Total?
How much money do you have to spend on so called "improvements"??
Tim
I've always been under the impression that the FAA used double sided hammers to pound on us. So to be legit it has to be on the TCDS or Otherwise approved, STC, field approval, etc. (first side of the hammer) AND the part has to be produced by a PMA or otherwise certified shop or recently as an owner produced part (second side of the hammer) for an oldie... What am I missing here?
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
It says wood prop. Been run through several different FSDOS and they came to the same conclusion. That TCDS was written when there was common sense. Wood props don't have weird harmonics like metal. Pretty simple stuff.
alaskadrifter
Registered User
Alaska
I think worry is that they aren't PMA'd.
overlandandover_land
Registered User
Santa Barbara CA/Newberg OR
Should mention second best mod: Skis!
I would love to put skis on sometime in the future, but maybe once I've got more flight time up north
Does Ellis know what you are up to? Beautiful plane, id keep it and fly it as is. There's a dirt field at the East end of KIZA where gliders operate,
have some fun there, you'll get some off airport experience and no big wheels needed.
overlandandover_land
Registered User
Santa Barbara CA/Newberg OR
Does anyone have experience with VGs on a J3? I'm looking at the MicroAero kit for better low-speed handling and safety
bob turner
Registered User
Yes. But once again, we should ask you: how many hours do you have in Cubs? I have over 5000 hours in Cubs of most types, and plenty of time with three different VG setups, and I cannot feel much difference. Get several hundred hours in the pattern, then find someone with a heavily modded Cub and fly that. Much cheaper than modifying yours. You will find that all the mods do not make the airplane fly better - they just make it safer to land in places where you have no business landing in the first place - unless your livelihood is being a real bush pilot.
Practice what are called "Dutch rolls" in your airplane. Keep the nose on a point and roll from side to side with full aileron, maybe 30 degrees bank. Then find somebody with 29" Bushwheels, and do the same exercise.
If you do not mind the performance decrease, and want to look like a real bush pilot, by all means add all this stuff. You are the only one you need to make happy. It seems a shame to mess up that beautiful Ellis aircraft - more appropriate to get a dirtbag with patches all over and mod that.
Opinion, of course.
Practice what are called "Dutch rolls" in your airplane. Keep the nose on a point and roll from side to side with full aileron, maybe 30 degrees bank. Then find somebody with 29" Bushwheels, and do the same exercise.
If you do not mind the performance decrease, and want to look like a real bush pilot, by all means add all this stuff. You are the only one you need to make happy. It seems a shame to mess up that beautiful Ellis aircraft - more appropriate to get a dirtbag with patches all over and mod that.
Opinion, of course.
overlandandover_land
Registered User
Santa Barbara CA/Newberg OR
Recently, I decided to not get bushwheels for the cub-since it already has 4" rims and drum brakes, I don't think I should spend close to 6 grand on rims, brakes, and tires that I won't take full advantage of. Instead, I'm going to stick with the 800s that are already on it until I need to replace the brakes.
I spent some time with Ellis yesterday and he told me that he put VGs on one of his Cubs (one with floats) and felt a pretty big difference in handling characteristics at slow speeds, but that was probably due to the extra weight the cub had on it.
I'm definitely a novice pilot. I recognize that I don't know the plane nearly as well as I could/should and, in all honesty, would not make any modifications for a few years. I am just getting advice so that when the time comes, I know what I should and shouldn't modify, if anything.
I spent some time with Ellis yesterday and he told me that he put VGs on one of his Cubs (one with floats) and felt a pretty big difference in handling characteristics at slow speeds, but that was probably due to the extra weight the cub had on it.
I'm definitely a novice pilot. I recognize that I don't know the plane nearly as well as I could/should and, in all honesty, would not make any modifications for a few years. I am just getting advice so that when the time comes, I know what I should and shouldn't modify, if anything.
Mine has the old wing only VG kit on it. I cannot compare it to anything though, it's the only plane I've ever flown. It seems to be well behaved near stall speeds. My instructor did comment that without the tail kit it felt like the tail actually stalled before the wing.
