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Thread: New Model by Zlin Aviation: SHOCK CUB

  1. #41

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    Skill usually avoids dangers like tipping over and "moose stalls", but even the skilled pilots can get in trouble and be killed. Being able to land with major braking and not tipping is a benefit and so is a near spin resistant wing.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by azdave View Post
    I'm also an expert hunter since I was a kid, which is why I'm looking for the supposed extinct Tasmanian Tiger (aka Thylacine) albeit with camera. And I think I have a chance, but these expeditions are not cheap nor for the faint hearted if you knew what the conditions are. It's like a lost world down here at least on the entire western side of Tasmania.
    I'm leery of self described experts, however, it's usually amusing to read your posts.
    As you know there are 3 classes of people, those who watch things happen, those who make things happen, and, those who wonder what happened. I'll admit to being all three sometimes but mostly we're one of those people most of the time.
    Thing is, the Internet can make the class of person much more obscure from the reader. Unlike your next door neighbour who you've known for a bit.
    Roddy

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddy View Post
    I'm leery of self described experts, however, it's usually amusing to read your posts.
    As you know there are 3 classes of people, those who watch things happen, those who make things happen, and, those who wonder what happened. I'll admit to being all three sometimes but mostly we're one of those people most of the time.
    Thing is, the Internet can make the class of person much more obscure from the reader. Unlike your next door neighbour who you've known for a bit.
    Roddy
    We're going far afield, but the Tasmanian project is a conservation project involving difficult conditions requiring more than most planes are capable of as far as slow flight and extreme STOL. However, there is certainly a lot of interest in these qualities by many others around the world so I predict good sales for Zlin and in fact I've heard they are quickly expanding their factory.

  4. #44

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    I really didn't want to take over this thread, so apologies. It's really about the SHOCK CUB/SHOCK OUTBACK, not me. OSHKOSH is coming up and hopefully more will be known then and maybe Bill can inform us when the bigger engine performance in this plane will be available. The hp: wt ratio should be interesting as I believe weight is less than a Carbon Cub. Might be very impressive with floats.

  5. #45
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    I have no experience with the Shock Cub but if you get the tail that high (as in the video at 8:11) with any airplane and you are not a skilled pilot (know your airplane like you wear it) you are probably just as likely to go over as not especially since it was obvious this guy was out of talent at that point. I am guessing the tail in the shock cub is light if it has the basic characteristics of a cub, forward gear will help with that until you pass the point of no return and then it is either going to be a quick stab of power and release the brakes or see the dirt.

    AZ Dave, your posts are interesting for a very short time.... Then they just get weird.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauleguy View Post
    AZ Dave, your posts are interesting for a very short time.... Then they just get weird.
    Quote of the day!
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  7. #47

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    Just my 2 cents I think Savage Cub should be cheered for bringing this plane to market. Remember normal category aircraft are not legal to land off/airport in Europe as I understand things, only UL and LSA are legal. So what if others have gone before with these ideas. While were on the subject of Cub crafters, why haven't they or American legend done this with a cub type aircraft.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Quote of the day!
    It's easy to get weird in posts, but I'm not weird. Meet me in person and you'll see I'm calm and a rationalist, friendly. blah blah

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauleguy View Post
    I have no experience with the Shock Cub but if you get the tail that high (as in the video at 8:11) with any airplane and you are not a skilled pilot (know your airplane like you wear it) you are probably just as likely to go over as not especially since it was obvious this guy was out of talent at that point. I am guessing the tail in the shock cub is light if it has the basic characteristics of a cub, forward gear will help with that until you pass the point of no return and then it is either going to be a quick stab of power and release the brakes or see the dirt.
    I haven't flown the Shock Cub but I think the landing gear would have greatly absorbed the bounce and subsequent gyrations. Note he almost tipped the plane several times esp. at the end when he really didn't have that much remaining momentum. I wouldn't say he ran out of talent per se because even talented pilots, known experts, have flipped their planes. We all have made bad landings and having a margin of safety is cool, IMO. I guess some people will criticise it but that to me is what's weird.

  10. #50
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Dave,

    How about some pictures of this Tazmanian adventure? How about pictures of some of the flying there?
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Dave,

    How about some pictures of this Tazmanian adventure? How about pictures of some of the flying there?
    I feel I've hijacked the thread enough, maybe later. I'll just say western Tasmania is a mysterious place, and the Tasmanian Tiger (thylacine) was a mysterious animal that may still exist. It will take a special plane to get into those areas, places no man has ever been.

    Back to the Shock Cub/Shock Outback, I suspect a lot more videos and specs. will be forthcoming after Oshkosh. The plane was just revealed at AERO Friedrichshafen a few weeks ago. Zlin Aero's website and Bill Camino's site at SportAir Aero as well as You Tube will be the places to check.

    Safe flying to all.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdave View Post
    I feel I've hijacked the thread enough, maybe later. I'll just say western Tasmania is a mysterious place, and the Tasmanian Tiger (thylacine) was a mysterious animal that may still exist. It will take a special plane to get into those areas, places no man has ever been.

    Back to the Shock Cub/Shock Outback, I suspect a lot more videos and specs. will be forthcoming after Oshkosh. The plane was just revealed at AERO Friedrichshafen a few weeks ago. Zlin Aero's website and Bill Camino's site at SportAir Aero as well as You Tube will be the places to check.

    Safe flying to all.
    Good grief.........

  13. #53

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    OK I will curtail my enthusiasm even though I think interest and enthusiasm is almost a life force and no matter what the subject, almost everything is so darn interesting to me. On this subject, man has wanted to fly like this for a long time so yeah I think it's a big deal. Others, have been close, but it's just getting better and better.

  14. #54
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    I think it was Hunter S. Thompson who said, "when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

  15. #55

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    Not weird, just an enthusiast for hyper STOL that to me = safety in situations that are inherently unsafe. I'm also enthusiastic because I'm writing a book on flight safety. Spin resistant wing, 18 mph stall...really? I say it's huuge, why not be excited. Just my .02.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    I think it was Hunter S. Thompson who said, "when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
    When we can discuss Hunter S. Thompson and cub flying in the same thread, interesting is an understatement!

    Dave, about this book on flight safety, maybe you could open a thread and give a preview. I am always looking for new material to assist in my flying and instruction.

    Some cub photos showing you demonstrating the 18 mph stall would be super cool. Would be great to see where your perspective would comes from in practice.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  17. #57

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    Not a cub , not 18 mph, and not a photo but definitely 20 mph stall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnHbdJ5Uupc . Turns out that is to slow. In spite of the video following mine where the guy claims to fly his in "20 mph winds" you are totally at the mercy of the wind and turbulence. If you enjoy getting the snot beat out of you or only flying at 6:00 AM then yes it's safer in all other ways but to use the rest of the "safety" then when you fly is severely restricted. There are reasons the J2 and the Jenny are not popular any more.
    Now having a mechanical way to take the wing from stalling at 20 to stalling at 50 would be the cool trick.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by qsmx440 View Post
    Not a cub , not 18 mph, and not a photo but definitely 20 mph stall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnHbdJ5Uupc . Turns out that is to slow. In spite of the video following mine where the guy claims to fly his in "20 mph winds" you are totally at the mercy of the wind and turbulence. If you enjoy getting the snot beat out of you or only flying at 6:00 AM then yes it's safer in all other ways but to use the rest of the "safety" then when you fly is severely restricted. There are reasons the J2 and the Jenny are not popular any more.
    Now having a mechanical way to take the wing from stalling at 20 to stalling at 50 would be the cool trick.
    If you think E2,J2 and Jennys aren't popular anymore your hanging with the wrong crowd

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  19. #59
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    nevermind
    Last edited by Cub junkie; 05-26-2016 at 10:42 AM.

  20. #60

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    Don't know about the two seaters but you can buy one like I had all hopped up for 5 grand. Can you do your own maintenance on a T craft? Get low time and great condition? Valdez performance, no tax, no license (pilot or airplane)? Fly at 20? I have stopped at the beginning of the "9" and been airborne at the end of the nine. I forgot to mention I'm close to 900' at the end of the 3000' runway. I don't know how long that number is but it's not very long. I sold mine last year before getting a couple of back operations and every "perfect morning" I regret it. BUT I was pointing out the limitations of a very slow flying aircraft and after a few years just going around the local areas early in the morning gets boring. Definitely not a waste of money though IMHO.
    Last edited by qsmx440; 05-26-2016 at 10:59 AM.

  21. #61

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    Yeah my comment was kind of tongue in cheek.

  22. #62

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    Holy continental thread drift Batman.
    Lets see we have the shock cub, the Tasmanian tiger, Hunter s Thompson, and a Quicksilver. Plus a spinoff thread about Tasmanian Tiger pictures this must go in the hall of fame.
    P.S. Sorry I forgot the Jenny E2 and J2.


  23. #63
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    Shock Cub price

    Mike,
    Base price 143k w 180hp

    Fly Safe; Fly Fun!

    SportairUSA, LC
    Bill Canino

  24. #64

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  25. #65

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    [QUOTE=aktango58;660471]Dave,

    How about some pictures of this Tazmanian adventure? How about pictures of some of the flying there?[/QUO If Dave shows his pictures youll all be over there trying to get in on his soon to be fortune from another source? Find 1 tiger and you got a good chunk of your shock cub paid for.

  26. #66

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    The Shock looks like a fun plane. A Carbon Cub-class airplane with split flaps and slats. I've wondered why Cubcrafters hasn't produced one. Competition is good! If I needed an LSA I'd be a serious looker.

  27. #67

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    Ok, we're off topic but to reply:

    Turner withdrew his reward long ago. A pic or video would be world wide news and a significant positive for conservation in Tasmania as it ties in with the problem of deforestation and habitat loss, etc. The Tasmania Tiger/Thylacine is a mysterious creature, but one that did exist and may still exist. Just in the last few weeks I interviewed on video 4 people who saw or believed they saw thylacines in recent years and IMO the sightings are very strong/legitimate.

    I've spent significant money for cameras and expeditions and I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't think there was a reasonable chance for success, but this is a very hard project. On the positive side I've made many friends in Tasmania and spent so much time there I may end up being a resident. I have over 200 hrs. flying there and it's a hard place to describe because it is so variable. My best friend is a flight instructor there (22,000 hrs) and I got my tail dragger
    and float plane training there.

    At any rate anyone motivated by a reward will likely fail. Well, wait, everyone has failed so far. My motivation is I like hard projects, and it is the ultimate hunt, albeit with camera.

    Some may find this movie (which can be rented from the Netflix, iTunes, etc.) interesting, it captures some of the mood of Tasmania. Very underrated film. Highly recommended.

    THE HUNTER (preview): youtube.com/watch?v=qmBJefhcbR4

  28. #68

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    qsmx440, I agree with your sentiments. I teach flying in them part of the year in the Philippines where we have a great flying club, the largest in SE Asia. C'mon over, weather is great and normally not windy. A great plane for learning to fly low and slow and to do so safely.

  29. #69

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    aktango58, thanks for the invite, maybe later. I will say just within the last two years I witnessed a stall/spin at low altitude that resulted in a fatality. Just last month an experienced pilot stalled and spun in at low altitude at my home field in Tasmania; miraculously, he survived. Many here know of skilled pilots who have died in low altitude stall/spins in SuperCubs, which I would argue is a safe plane. Wouldn't they be alive today if their plane was spin proof (or nearly so)?

    That attribute plus such a low stall speed plus being able to put the plane down almost anywhere there is a postage stamp of terrain are huge safety factors. High climb rate is also a safety positive. Worse case scenario, you have an engine failure and have to ditch over bad terrain, stalling in at 18 mph or possibly even lower into the wind means you may walk away without even a scratch. People fall off bicycles going faster and with a protective cage and 4 point harness you'll live.

    See also: adn.com/bush-pilot/article/moose-turn-stalls-are-dangerous-threat-flight-safety-video/2013/09/12/

    So while new Cub type planes are always interesting, this one is significant just from it's safety attributes.

  30. #70

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    I see there's a thread started about flying pics in Tasmania, so any comments about the Tasmania stuff should go there.

  31. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by azdave View Post
    aktango58, thanks for the invite, maybe later. I will say just within the last two years I witnessed a stall/spin at low altitude that resulted in a fatality. Just last month an experienced pilot stalled and spun in at low altitude at my home field in Tasmania; miraculously, he survived. Many here know of skilled pilots who have died in low altitude stall/spins in SuperCubs, which I would argue is a safe plane. Wouldn't they be alive today if their plane was spin proof (or nearly so)?

    That attribute plus such a low stall speed plus being able to put the plane down almost anywhere there is a postage stamp of terrain are huge safety factors. High climb rate is also a safety positive. Worse case scenario, you have an engine failure and have to ditch over bad terrain, stalling in at 18 mph or possibly even lower into the wind means you may walk away without even a scratch. People fall off bicycles going faster and with a protective cage and 4 point harness you'll live.

    See also: adn.com/bush-pilot/article/moose-turn-stalls-are-dangerous-threat-flight-safety-video/2013/09/12/

    So while new Cub type planes are always interesting, this one is significant just from it's safety attributes.
    I agree, this airplane could be safer because of its low stall speed/spin resistance. There would be a level of comfort knowing that you could set down slow even in the trees in an engine out. However, pilots will find ways to kill themselves in this plane too absolutely. There are stall/spin accidents that are inexcusable. Mostly if not always it's a pilot problem not a plane problem. I'd bet money the pilot that inadvertently stalls and spins in is the same guy who thinks he's good enough to text and drive. No matter how good we think we are we can only do one thing at a time. Don't ask me how I know that.
    When you're low and slow in a turn you can't be doing or thinking about anything else. Same as driving - you don't have the brains to keep it between the lines and text.
    safe airplane is good but I worry about the fella steering.
    Roddy

  32. #72

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    Yes, you're largely correct. Let me add this and I'm cutting right to the end here, but what usually kills pilots is a sudden stop. Now think about the attributes of this plane in tremendously reducing that when the pilot errs or unfavourable conditions occur.

  33. #73

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    Check out the new shock cub video posted yesterday on youtube - Shock Cub landing test

  34. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by ded View Post
    Check out the new shock cub video posted yesterday on youtube - Shock Cub landing test
    Ok ok. You're starting to distract me from my work...
    Looks like pretty incredible performance. Maybe 5-10 mph of wind according to those flags/windsock,
    not much more. Thanks for posting.
    Roddy

  35. #75
    aktango58's Avatar
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    That is worthy!

    I will offer to fly one for Valdez next spring if I can have my hands on it for two weeks ahead of time for practice.

    That one might be a contender.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  36. #76
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    Yes, not bad at all. With just 95 hp and an heavy prototype ..And they are able to get that AOA without to apply too much power as you see and with an elevator that seems to work well enough...I can't imagine the same plane with a Titan 180 hp . They posted two videos on their Facebook page and totalized more than 12.000 views in less than 48 hours.It could be that finally this time , this product turned into a serious Stol project..

  37. #77

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    Still trying to figure out what the difference is between a Shock Cub and Justs Super Stoll?

  38. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    Still trying to figure out what the difference is between a Shock Cub and Justs Super Stoll?
    If you notice, it's a tandem. And looks like a cub. The SuperStol is side by side and doesn't look like a cub. The rest is the same. Maybe.
    Roddy

  39. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddy View Post
    If you notice, it's a tandem. And looks like a cub. The SuperStol is side by side and doesn't look like a cub. The rest is the same. Maybe.
    Roddy
    Yep, The rest of the story is what im wonderin.

  40. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    Yep, The rest of the story is what im wonderin.
    if you have a look at the numbers (and pics) you realize that the wing is completely different. The mean chord of the SS with slats is 1 ft shorter compared to the chord of the Shock Cub "without" the slats and this means of course that even the airfoil can't be the same.The slats are different too. The tail section is completely different and it is probably working better (in my personal opinion) since largely inspired by the Piper Super Cub one with jack screw system trim and with "much" bigger surface and trim capacity (very important for slow speeds) and you all know that the real Piper Super Cub without "that tail system" would not be anymore the plane that it is.... The Shock as told above is a tandem configuration and so is even 3,3 feet longer delivering probably even better longitudinal stability and offering much better visibility in the wild or in some high nose attitude approach. The rear shock absorber is completely different in design. The main landing gear is the only area where they seem to have copied but it looks evident to everyone that this type of landing gear complex needs a main triangle and a shock absorber and some sort of V cabane where to screw the main landing gear. The cabin is obviously totally different. The cowling too.One is sold in kit, and one is sold both in kit and ready to fly. Someone will prefer one solution and someone else the tandem Super Cub inspired configuration. To each is own ..as usual.

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