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Javron PA-11 Build by Dan Carroll - MN

Darrel Starr

Darrel Starr

Registered User
Plymouth, MN
At Anoka County Airport (KANE) in Blaine, MN, there are a lot of great airplanes from pristine J-3 Cubs & Super Cubs to Howard 500s, Sawbones Sea Fury Reno Racer & an F-82 restoration. Another plane that is taking shape now is a Javron PA-11 being built by a SC.org member, Dan Carroll. Dan was a Baron Driver before he saw the light and decided to return to the taildragger ranks. He is quite the craftsman as the pictures bare out. Dan was so serious about getting this PA-11 right that he went to school and got his A&P ticket.
Notwithstanding that he is an old Irishman full of blarney up to his eyebrows, he has the passion and persistency to get this build right. Some parts he points out have been made 3 or 4 times before they met his critical eye as being worthy of staying on the plane. Here are a few pictures I took today that Dan has permitted me to post here. He is a member so might also add some dialog later. Also, Dan has a hangar to die for.
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Dan developed what I think is a unique way to create smoothly curved aluminum pieces that curve around the "D: window. Here is his description of the process followed by pictures of the pieces being made and then finished, or nearly so.
These photos are from this morning's effort to see if i could make two D window trim pieces from a single aluminum strip out of 5052 – H32 .025. This effort took about 3 hrs of effort. That's not counting countless hours of experimenting with different designs. I'm satisfied with these two trim pieces. They fit quite well in the D window frame and add, I think a nice finishing look. The trick in forming the trim piece is in the annealing process. My earlier efforts failed because of improper heat treatment. It turned out that heating the entire trim piece made a huge difference and allowed me to form the trim piece directly to the D window shape.
Of all the different aluminum stock I experimented with, 5052 .025 worked best.
And in cases where I used 3003 half hard .020 stock I found that it was too thin and much more difficult to anneal.
D window trim installed with .093 Makrolon wedges to insure clearance and tight fit.
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Very nice, I have 2200 hrs in a 90 HP 11. I see he added 18 seats and baggage, controls?. The biggest mod is lite,lite,lite. 780lb or lighter and it will be a sweetheart to fly.

Glenn
 
Awesome! I have not had a chance to work on mine for a month and a half....yesterday I finally got some building done. Keep posting pictures....I love to shamelessly steal the ideas of those meow skilled than I:)
 
Darrel, if you say that Dan's hangar is to die for, then it must really be nice.
Nice photos, thanks.
 
Well, how about 1 1/2 baths, a kitchen & lounge upstairs with hardwood floors. Dan bought the hanger about 14 years ago pretty much as a shell and has made it into a show place. When it is 10F below, just turn up the lights, heat & music and play with the tools.
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Hi Darrel. That looks super nice. I would LOVE to get to Anoka Co. someday and check out all the goodies:) Keep up the good work!!!
 
Darrel,

Dan looks GREAT! So does his project. Very nice workmanship, but I wouldn't expect anything else. One thing I've found in my 11 is that the Super Cub front seat sits you a lot higher than the stock 11/J-3 seat, which puts those spars (ie: headache rack) REALLY close to one's head. I've often thought that it would be nice to figure out a way to shorten up the legs on the SC seat when it's installed in the 11 with the spars meeting in the middle of the fuselage. Since Dan is taller than me, this is going to be a more significant issue for him.

And, having seen Dan's hangar in person, I couldn't agree more....it's a palace.

MTV
 
mvivion said:
Darrel,

Dan looks GREAT! So does his project. Very nice workmanship, but I wouldn't expect anything else. One thing I've found in my 11 is that the Super Cub front seat sits you a lot higher than the stock 11/J-3 seat, which puts those spars (ie: headache rack) REALLY close to one's head. I've often thought that it would be nice to figure out a way to shorten up the legs on the SC seat when it's installed in the 11 with the spars meeting in the middle of the fuselage. Since Dan is taller than me, this is going to be a more significant issue for him.

And, having seen Dan's hangar in person, I couldn't agree more....it's a palace.

MTV
Click to expand...
Mike,
Thanks for the compliments and the great suggestion about the front seat. I've anticipated the latter problem and thought about rebuilding the frame to conform to the PA-18 wing mount but scrapped the idea in favor of sticking with the original plan. The front seat is the standard PA-18 seat. I don't know how much of a problem I'm going to have with visibility once the wings are mounted but I intend to fabricate and install a stub forward spar to see just how much of an issue I might have. I can and will if necessary drop the front seat for maximum visibility.

I hope to see you at the end of April before and during the Minnesota Pilots Association Conference. It would be great to catch up with you. BTW, I'll be making a trip to Montana in April prior to the conference and will call if I end up in Bozeman.

Dan
 
I had the 18 seat in my 11 after rebuild and after flying it for awhile I changed the seatback angle tilting back a few degrees and it made a big difference. If I remember right I moved it so that the top bar on the seat went back 2"

Glenn
 
Dan,

What Glenn suggests--tilting the seat back aft a bit---will help. The issue isn't visibility, it's that the seat is high enough that it puts your forehead just a couple inches from that spar box. Any major screw up and you're going to have a concussion, if you're lucky. You're taller than I am, so your forehead will be even closer.

A helmet might help, or some serious padding on the middle of the spars, but, seems to me the best bet would be to lower the seat (like the original 11 seat) AND tilt the seat back aft a bit.

Easier to do on a plane at your stage of construction.

And, by all means, if you're in the neighborhood, please get in touch. In any case, I'll be at Anoka County end of April.

MTV
 
Thanks for the tip, Glenn. Just out of curiosity did you have any subsequent issues with the control stick restrictions (pitch down travel) with the seatback angle lowered?
Dan
 
Mike, thanks for the explanation. When I fabricate the spar cover I'll have Darrel take some photos with me harnessed in to see if the old noggin is in jeopardy if the shoulder harness is not in the locked position.
Dan
 
edanair said:
Thanks for the tip, Glenn. Just out of curiosity did you have any subsequent issues with the control stick restrictions (pitch down travel) with the seatback angle lowered?
Dan
Click to expand...

I think it would depend on where the stick is rigged and the size of your belly ;-) It just touched, at first I took the rear stick out but I then put the same angle on the top half of the rear stick because I flew from the back seat a lot.

Glenn
 
Glenn, I'll keep your solution in mind if I have problems the rear stick travel. Thanks for the quick response.

Dan
 
Dan, perhaps we can plan a pizza and beer and wine party at our hangars and you can show off your project! That would be a hoot! I'll stop by and brainstorm:smile:

Randy
 
Absolutely, Randy. Friday night works or even before Friday, but Saturday at the close of the conference I'm heading down to MSP for the MAHOF awards dinner.
Dan
 
edanair said:
Mike, thanks for the explanation. When I fabricate the spar cover I'll have Darrel take some photos with me harnessed in to see if the old noggin is in jeopardy if the shoulder harness is not in the locked position.
Dan
Click to expand...

Pardon the resurrection of an old thread but I'm curious how this turned out - PA-18 seat and PA-11 overhead spar for a guy who is 6' tall. Dan are you still around and can you update this particular point?
 
Dan is still around but progress on the -11 has slowed. I will alert him regarding the inquiry and see if he will post.
 
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