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Thread: Trim handle

  1. #1
    Hyway's Avatar
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    Trim handle

    Hi Guys taxied out yesterday and in the run up bay the trim handle came off in my hand, taxied back in and looked on the floor for the parts, it consisted of a spring a cover plate and a very small pin. Found them all and reassembled after 10 minutes took off all went well.
    my question is the pin took me 3 goes to get it in, it went straight through the holes in the handle, what holds the pin in place? Is it the cover plate and spring? I would of thought it would of been some kind of fastener instead of a pin same size from top to bottom.
    it was a 1956 Piper SuperCub
    Mat

  2. #2
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Matt

    That pin is supposed to be a "roll pin". It should have a slit in it and be slightly beveled on the ends. It is compressed as you tap it in and held in place by friction.

    Here is a picture.....




    Hope this helps


    Bill

    Thanks ...... Pete, I sit corrected. It was NOT originally a roll pin but perhaps that would be an option.
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 01-30-2016 at 07:09 AM. Reason: I was wrong......again
    Very Blessed. "It's not an obsession, it's a passion"

  3. #3
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    The original is a straight pin which is held in place by the cover plate being held out against the handle by the spring. The cover plate covers both ends of the hole thus holding the pin in place.
    N1PA

  4. #4
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    The escutcheon and spring keep the pin from coming out. Check your handle to see if the hole is wallowed out. I found an improved escutcheon that has the spring made into it and a nylon bushing for better wear. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/wi...-spring-loaded
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  5. #5
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
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    I never liked that design. A spring & escutcheon plate to hold a pin in? Come on ... and on top of that they eat up the square aluminum plate that has the trim lettering on it.
    Solution: Throw the spring & escutcheon plate in the dumpster. replace them with a tube spacer over the shaft then reinstall the handle with a #4 bolt & nut. Has worked for me the last 400 hrs.



    And if you get deeper into it, install F520-15 Oilite bearings between the shaft and the two thin fuselage tabs as shown in the drawing.
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  6. #6
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Just bend the pin a little bit, that way it's spring loaded in the hole and won't vibrate out.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO

  7. #7
    Hyway's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for all your replies.
    I was also surprised at the simplistic design but not that fool proof, I think I will remove the pin and get it replaced with something that won't vibrate out or fall out if you push the cover plate in too far.
    once again thanks for the info
    Mat

  8. #8
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    original design has(and still) worked fine for many decades...

  9. #9
    texmex's Avatar
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    G'day Darrel. Looks over engineered which is right up my alley. The Oilite bearing is the one coloured red?
    What process did you use on the walls? Fabric glued onto what sized aluminium wall?
    The photo doesn't show the number 4 bolt. But wouldn't a roll pin look better?
    Regards, Denis.
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  10. #10
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    It is always nice to develop a better mouse trap. I understand that desire. I do it myself. Remember that when Piper designed these planes all of the automobiles had crank up windows. Remember those? It was very easy for Piper to send the stock boy to the local auto dealer to buy a box of window cranks, which is what was done. These planes were designed using the KISS principle. If you don't want the paint scratched just glue on a thin piece of anti chaffing materiel between the escutcheon and the plate.
    N1PA

  11. #11
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    original design has(and still) worked fine for many decades...
    Been working fine in every Model A Ford since 1928

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  12. #12
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    The escutcheon I linked works great. Has enough pressure that it takes some doing to push it out of the way to get the pin in and out. It also does not rotate when you turn the crank since it has a has pressure and a nylon bushing to rotate on. Dakota Cub sales a sure shaft handle with a screw retaining the handle.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel Starr View Post
    I never liked that design. A spring & escutcheon plate to hold a pin in? Come on ... and on top of that they eat up the square aluminum plate that has the trim lettering on it.
    Solution: Throw the spring & escutcheon plate in the dumpster. replace them with a tube spacer over the shaft then reinstall the handle with a #4 bolt & nut. Has worked for me the last 400 hrs.



    And if you get deeper into it, install F520-15 Oilite bearings between the shaft and the two thin fuselage tabs as shown in the drawing.
    Darrel, i think this is a excellant fix, even before, after the brackets holes start getting sloppy.
    Thanks yellowbird69 thanked for this post

  14. #14
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
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    Texmex, the Oilite bearings are green in the picture located in the yellow brackets welded to the fuselage. Yes the fabric is glued to the side panels. The fabric is from Oregon Aero and matches the seats. The #4 bolt has an Allen head and is shown in the photo showing the fabric. The bearings allow the crank to turn much more smoothly than the original design of a steel pin turning in thin steel brackets which is never a good idea.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel Starr View Post
    Texmex, the Oilite bearings are green in the picture located in the yellow brackets welded to the fuselage. Yes the fabric is glued to the side panels. The fabric is from Oregon Aero and matches the seats. The #4 bolt has an Allen head and is shown in the photo showing the fabric. The bearings allow the crank to turn much more smoothly than the original design of a steel pin turning in thin steel brackets which is never a good idea.
    Great design and thanks for sharing it Darrel I'm ordering the Oilite flanged bearings now and doing the mod as well Question; did you have to make up a new crank handle axle, as the additional thickness of the bearing flange would have presumably moved the position of the pulley locking pin hole to a point where it couldn't be used, or did you drill a new locking pin hole in the original axle, or deepen the groove in the pulley to pick up the original hole?

    And on the Oilite bearings, did you:

    Machine the Oilite bearings length down to match the metal mountings' thickness
    Put spacers on the outside of the metal mountings to the Oilite flange
    Just leave the length and let them ride on the pulley?

    Cheers and thanks

    Philly
    Last edited by Philly5G; 06-22-2018 at 08:03 AM.

  16. #16
    Stew's Avatar
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    The original Piper crank pin was just a modified 3/8" clevis pin (AN396-41 Length:1-9/32").

    Darrel has used a longer one (AN396-59 Length: 1-19/32") to accomodate the Oilite bearings and drilled a new pulley pin hole at the right spot and also allow the fixing of the crank handle with the #4 nut and bolt as opposed to the pin/spring/escutcheon arrangement.
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    Last edited by Stew; 06-25-2018 at 04:49 AM.
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  17. #17

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    Darrell---where do I buy this F520-15 iolite bearings??? Thanks---John


    "You cannot teach experience, you must acquire it."
    Captain Cub

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  19. #19
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    McMaster Carr?
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
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  20. #20
    Stew's Avatar
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    When you use the Oilite bearings for this do you use locktite to stop them spinning in the bracket or does it not matter?

  21. #21
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    The escutcheon and spring keep the pin from coming out. Check your handle to see if the hole is wallowed out. I found an improved escutcheon that has the spring made into it and a nylon bushing for better wear. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/wi...-spring-loaded
    This one has the nylon
    https://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A48139RE.html

    https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...-spring-loaded
    If you want to pay more through amazon. The last ones i ordered showed up in grand general packaging
    https://www.amazon.com/GG-Grand-Gene.../dp/B085GHJ6KL

    Handle pn a702780A
    https://www.modelaparts.com/a702780a
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  22. #22
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Yea, Snyder quit including the nylon bushing which makes it slide real nice.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  23. #23

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    I always carried a small needle nose vise grip pliers clipped under the seat in case the trim handle or fuel valve handle ever fell off. A million uses and used them often but never lost a trim handle or a fuel valve handle.
    Likes BC12D-4-85, hotrod180 liked this post

  24. #24

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    I have had fuel valve fall off on two different planes. Always keep Leatherman in reach.
    DENNY

  25. #25
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Good point for annual insp - fuel valve screws tight! Thanks for the reminder - - -
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    Good point for annual insp - fuel valve screws tight! Thanks for the reminder - - -
    just a dab of thread locker does wonders. I always get the blue stuff. I don’t know about the other colors but the blue I can get off when I want to yet I’ve never had a tread come loose with it on
    Likes BC12D-4-85 liked this post

  27. #27
    PerryB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reliableflyer View Post
    just a dab of thread locker does wonders. I always get the blue stuff. I don’t know about the other colors but the blue I can get off when I want to yet I’ve never had a tread come loose with it on
    Blue is the softest of the Lock-Tites and a good choice for small machine screws. Red is next and green is for all of time. Red on a smaller screw usually requires heat to remove without breaking the screw unless you apply heat. On a fuel valve that might be questionable.....

  28. #28
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Blue is actually considered a 'medium' hold. There are others such as purple that are less tenacious.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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