Wildcat Cub

[mvivion]

Stewart,

I agree. Years ago, I had the opportunity to attend the Lycoming Piston Engine Service School. Though I'm not a mechanic, that program was absolutely worth the time and money. It really does give you an appreciation for how simple, yet elegant these little engines really are.

MTV

[stewartb]

Yep, learning is good. Recognizing how limited my knowledge is is humbling, and that's also good. I've assembled aircraft engines and they do look simple. What I was surprised at was how the engineers trouble shoot problems like the timing issue in the IO-400s. The XIO-382 uses the same crank as the 400 but isn't subject to the problem they recalled the 400s for. There's more involved with increasing displacement than just bolting bigger cylinders on. Who knew? I'm impressed that Superior is proactive in tearing all these engines down and expect they'll learn more by inspecting engines with different times in service. That serves the end users in the long term even while it inconveniences us in the short term. I'm just glad it didn't happen during summer!

[Marcgerm]

Hi Stewart,

I am the new owner of the REV 2, Heliojoe built, would like to make contact, have tried to send a PM but no luck,

Regards
Marc

[stewartb]

Congrats! It looks great in the pics I've seen. I'll turn my PMs on so we can trade info and chat.

[Mauleguy]

Have you done any airspeed calibration? I found that the IAS on mine is 100% accurate from 155 mph down to 40 mph. Below 40 it abruptly becomes a +5 mph or more error. This due to the angle of the pitot tube to the relative wind. When you get the opportunity try to notice what the GPS ground speed is upon touch down with a zero wind condition. The best that I've been able to do is 28 mph while on floats. I don't recall the IAS at that time, obviously off scale unreliable.

Also at 2050# with ballast, what is your CG?

Just curious how did you find that it was accruate to 155 mph?

My airspeed is off by 10 mph, any ideas on the easiest wat to fix that. I was thinking of making a slip on bullet shaped end piece that I could drill out until I achieve the correct orifice size. Any other ideas.

[skywagon8a]

Just curious how did you find that it was accruate to 155 mph?

My airspeed is off by 10 mph, any ideas on the easiest wat to fix that. I was thinking of making a slip on bullet shaped end piece that I could drill out until I achieve the correct orifice size. Any other ideas.

My pitot tube is a L shaped Kollsman mounted under the center of the wing between the jury struts and wing attach locations on a six inch mast away from any airflow disturbance from struts and prop wash. It is pitched slightly nose down. I think that if it were pitched a bit more nose down that it would be more accurate at low speeds. Both the pitot and static ports are connected to a new airspeed indicator. Accuracy is supposed to be within +/- 10* alignment of the tube to the airflow. I used a GPS flying in a 360* circle to determine the wind direction. Then did opposite direction runs in the zero wind direction comparing indicated with gps. This was done in 10 mph increments through the entire speed range. Frankly I was surprised that it was so accurate having done many of these calibration tests over the years. This is the only one which has been 100% accurate throughout the entire range. Just got lucky I guess.

[Gordon Misch]

Pete - At high AOA there is a pressure gradient below the wing, with pressure decreasing downward from the wing's lower surface. I demonstrated this by tufting my jury struts. The tufts tend downward, to below the flight path angle.

Given that the static source is closer to the wing than pitot source, as with the stock Piper arrangement, then the static component of total pressure is unequal between the two, and the reduced difference in total pressure between pitot and static source displays as artificially low airspeed. This is at least part of the too-low airspeed reading at high AOA, at least on my plane with the stock pitot-static configuration.

The reading I've done suggests that pitot angle is not a significant influence on dynamic pressure for "small" angles. If I recall correctly, "small" in this context might be something on the order of 20 deg or so.

[CharlieN]

This is just a thought I have and can be considered off this topic or a side topic in this thread.
I will be installing slats which when worked to the limit will allow for a rather high deck angle. I am curious about the value of placing the pitot tube on the slat such that it may keep the tube closer to that 20° range. Granted I am not sure if I will care to look at the airspeed indicator when approaching the limit.

[tempdoug]

charlie, put your pitot tube 1/2 way down the jury strut and point it down 10-15 degrees or what ever you can when flying level. just like they did with the 1940s J3s.

[CharlieN]

charlie, put your pitot tube 1/2 way down the jury strut and point it down 10-15 degrees or what ever you can when flying level. just like they did with the 1940s J3s.

If I recall my original J-4 has both pitot & static on the jury strut. I have not looked at the struts in a decade or so. Of all things my jury strut material arrived a few hours ago so it a good time for planning.
Got your PM as well.

[stewartb]

That's how mine is. Works great.

[skywagon8a]

Pete - At high AOA there is a pressure gradient below the wing, with pressure decreasing downward from the wing's lower surface. I demonstrated this by tufting my jury struts. The tufts tend downward, to below the flight path angle.

Given that the static source is closer to the wing than pitot source, as with the stock Piper arrangement, then the static component of total pressure is unequal between the two, and the reduced difference in total pressure between pitot and static source displays as artificially low airspeed. This is at least part of the too-low airspeed reading at high AOA, at least on my plane with the stock pitot-static configuration.

The reading I've done suggests that pitot angle is not a significant influence on dynamic pressure for "small" angles. If I recall correctly, "small" in this context might be something on the order of 20 deg or so.

That makes sense and agrees with my +/-10 deg. This is the pitot which is on my Cub. The pitot and static ports are both the same distance from the wing. You can just make it out in this picture above the prop.

[RaisedByWolves]

https://newsline.kitplanes.com/2019/...p-382-engines/

Do you have the 382? Hope the get it figured out soon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stewartb]

There’s nothing to figure out. I had a 400. I spent a good part if a day with Scott at SAP last week. Nice guy, tough job.

[RaisedByWolves]

There’s nothing to figure out. I had a 400. I spent a good part if a day with Scott at SAP last week. Nice guy, tough job.

What are you going to do for an engine?

[stewartb]

I’m stuck between rubber bands and a hamster.

Something different. That story isn’t finished yet so I’ll keep it private for now.

[DENNY]

Stewartb
Hang in there, I am sure you will be able to make something happen. Big blow for Superior but they did the standup thing and pulled engines.
DENNY

[mike mcs repair]

https://newsline.kitplanes.com/2019/...p-382-engines/

Do you have the 382? Hope the get it figured out soon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

someone should break this out into it's own thread, it's probably important enough to warrant being under it's own topic.... not move this part, but start a new thread...

[mike mcs repair]

so, trying to look at the brighter side.... superior should offer these for sale as Air boat engines!!! 220 HP airboats!!! hate to see them go to the landfill....

[aktango58]

As much of a bummer as the engine recall is, the up side: Doing it in the winter, Doing it prior to serious in flight failure with limited options to land safe, now you get to select another cool engine out there to power your beast- and knowing how it flies you have more information to select from.

All in all, much easier than the situation could have been. Eager to hear your next power choice!

[tempdoug]

so how many was there? 5, 5000, 50000.

[julios]

so, trying to look at the brighter side.... superior should offer these for sale as Air boat engines!!! 220 HP airboats!!! hate to see them go to the landfill....

Superior is not going to want those cranks in circulation, They will probably destroy them Lycoming style

[stewartb]

Some answers. There were around 80 IO-400s involved. No idea how many 382s were produced.

I've ordered a new Lycoming Thunderbolt YIO-390. Balanced, polished and ported, configured to my specs for injection and ignition... I didn't know Lycoming had a custom EXP shop until a good friend directed me there. Superior has been really helpful throughout and has agreed to sell me back some important parts and Lycoming has agreed to incorporate them. The result will minimize reinstallation problems like having to completely reinvent the exhaust, airbox and lower cowl. With that settled the rest should be simple to bolt up. To that end I'll reinstall my Pmags, too, for now. Plug and play. A couple of industry guys gave me some great advice. If you happen to read this post you'll know who you are. Thank you. The exp manufacturing and supply community has been very supportive.

[Scouter]

Stewart
Not looking for specific numbers, but is there any monetary layout to you for the headache? You didnt cause the problem but if you have to eat the pain in the wallet doesnt seem right. Even doing your own work. I watched my friend in a new Maule suffer from a crank ad on a 540 LYC, they gave him a basket full of new parts, but he ended up paying the labor.

Jim

[mike mcs repair]

Stewart
Not looking for specific numbers, but is there any monetary layout to you for the headache? You didnt cause the problem but if you have to eat the pain in the wallet doesnt seem right. Even doing your own work. I watched my friend in a new Maule suffer from a crank ad on a 540 LYC, they gave him a basket full of new parts, but he ended up paying the labor.

Jim

compared to the number of hours building it, this will be a walk in the park....hopefully..

[stewartb]

Labor and transportation allowances were included. I was treated very fairly. I can't find any reason to be disappointed in Superior's actions.

[Scouter]

Labor and transportation allowances were included. I was treated very fairly. I can't find any reason to be disappointed in Superior's actions.

Thats great to hear Stewart, good on Superior, and best of luck to you


Jim

[stewartb]

A quick update. I may have been the first Superior customer to be told of the buy-back. If not the first, pretty close to it, so take that timing into consideration. I have received the parts I requested to get back at the cost that Superior promised, which was 50 cents on the dollar. They deducted that cost from the purchase cost plus labor and freight allowances and I signed off on the settlement and got my refund (buy back) check a couple of weeks ago. I know there are guys who are just beginning the settlement process and are uncertain of how to proceed and there's lots of BS on the internet by guys that don't have any skin in the game so no knowledge of the process. From my perspective Superior has done exactly what they promised and I've been made whole, although Lycoming has a cylinder supply shortage so I still don't have an engine. It is what it is. Everyone involved from Superior and Lycoming have been responsive and helpful and they're doing everything they can do. Life goes on.

[john schwamm]

Stewart,
Hope they get the cylinders soon so you can fly the cub this summer. At least you have the 180, but I am sure you want to work that Wildcat this summer rather than have it collect cobwebs.
Good luck with getting the engine in time for summer.
John

[Mauleguy]

Dang you are a positive guy, I would be pissing and moaning about all the work I had to do. Great attitude!

Pretty sure that is the same engine that brought this airplane down.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...to-shore/#7506

[stewartb]

I thought I'd share a cool product I never had reason to know about until now. An NPT to AN flare adaptor with a NPT port for a pressure sender. Who knew? The Wildcat now has a fuel pressure indication on the G3X screen. Fun stuff while I wait for a motor.






Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

[46 Cub]

I see Pegasus on the tag. I've found that company to be great for outsize bolts, etc. too. It looks like they have a dealership from Airfasco (makers of certified AN hardware) so they sell the real deal.
That could be a useful fitting!

[joemcd]

Stewart,
Are you flying the Rev 2 again? Any further PIREPs on performance?
Joe

[stewartb]

Sadly, no. Still waiting on a motor. My acknowledgement’s April ship date is now July-August-September. I’m sure Lycoming would rather send me an invoice than a sorry letter but so far no joy. Thanks for asking, though. I do work on it occasionally. And sit in it. Fortunately I have my 180 to fly and truth be told, very little time to do that. All’s good.

[stewartb]

It took longer than expected but the new motor has arrived and it's a thing of beauty. I'll swap the sump with Superior's. I might paint it to match what Lycoming did. This one should be plus about 15 hp from the 400. That can't hurt. Merry Christmas to me!




Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

[john schwamm]

Stewart,
Nice, finally got it and you will be ready for spring flying in Alaska.
Will be a hot rod for sure.
John

[flyrite]

If it performs as the other ones, especially the one in a few videos that’s yellow with black stripes on tail, It’s gonna be a killer!

[stewartb]

It isn't a new plane, just a new motor. The yellow and black one had the same engine problem.

[Dave Calkins]

I am drooling over that black motor

[jrussl]

Congrats, Stewart!


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org