Thanks Thanks:  0
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: A Cub for primary instruction?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    7,370
    Post Thanks / Like

    A Cub for primary instruction?

    Of course I think the J-3 is best. But we have schools that train in Cherokees and Cirrusi, and I have long tried to talk them in to a Cub-type trainer.

    Here is my opinion - I think a stock PA-18-95 with a starter motor would be the best all around. Student in front, no hand- propping issues, enough fuel for an hour with VFR reserve, no need to do X-Cs.

    Assuming stock, would the average 95 be capable of legal spin training with two 195# guys and adequate fuel to get home? The spin zone is about 15 minutes away.

    We are sea level, so I do not see any advantage in the higher power, and the students will get flap experience in the (ugh) Cherokee, so I see this as the target airplane. Is the Legend or the CC in the same ball park?

    Don't tell me about Champs and Decathlons - I have trained in both and own a Super D - I consider them not great primary trainers, although quite good at spin training.

  2. #2
    Richgj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    LI,NY
    Posts
    1,158
    Post Thanks / Like
    There is a flight school in Australia that has two Legends used for primary training and just had a young man solo in 5 hrs. The Legend is not approved for spins as it was not tested during certification. I believe the CC Sport Cub is. Of course spin training is not required for primary training although it's nice to at least demonstrate it. I hear the Legend does spin like a cub and recover too.

    The Legend is essentially a PA18-95 with 20 gals useable and two doors and wide fuselage. Same airfoil, same ailerons, same tail as a J3.

    Payload might be an issue in those two SLSA's however due to the artificial max gross weight of 1320 when the 95 is 1500, I think. Both of those SLSA's are tested to at least 1600 because the Legend can be purchased as a 51% compliant kit and certified at 1600 in the Experimental amateur built category. I believe the Sport Cub is similar.

    However, none of that does you any good for instruction. Most Legends and Sport Cubs weigh around 850 empty so in your example you could carry 80 pounds of fuel or about 2 hrs worth. Might work.

    Rich
    Last edited by Richgj3; 01-14-2016 at 07:30 AM.

  3. #3
    Richgj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    LI,NY
    Posts
    1,158
    Post Thanks / Like
    One other point about using an SLSA for instruction. My operations limitation document says that the only commercial operations that are approved for the Legend are Flight Instruction and "towing a light sport glider". If the airplane is used that way it must have 100 hr inspections and an annual inspection sign off by an IA.

    When used personally, it only needs a condition inspection signed off by an A&P or a person with a Light Sport Repaiman Certificate. I assume the issue is the same for other SLSA products but I never checked.

    Rich

  4. #4
    fancypants's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    396
    Post Thanks / Like
    For a hypothetical PA-18-95

    900# Empty weight (very optimistic)
    108# Full fuel (18*6) - left wing tank only
    195# Pilot
    195# Passenger
    -------
    1,398#

    1,500# Max

    My 18-95, which weighs in well above 900# and has two 18 gallon wing tanks, would still remain in the utility category if loaded as described above.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    7,370
    Post Thanks / Like
    Nobody instructs in Cubs here? The one we have on the line is a modified 160 - a very nice airplane, but not as good for primary as I'd like, at 1280 EW.

  6. #6
    L18C-95's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Oxford UK
    Posts
    498
    Post Thanks / Like
    In the Souther Cone of South America it is not unusual for the PA-11 (they also seem to call the SC-90 as a generic PA Once), to still be used for ab initio training, usually up to solo standard, then switching to a Cessna or Cherokee for the NAV exercises.

    We get the occasional enquiry for a PPL on a Super Cub, but I have not seen one been done through to completion. Radio NAV is part of the PPL and most club Super Cubs tend to be comm only.

  7. #7
    Bonanza32GF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like
    Many years ago I learned to fly in a PA-18-95 that had an electrical system. I did not do spins, but did do cross countries and and everything else required for a PPL. The Air Force paid for 15 hours of dual and 20 hours of solo. The 1 1/2 hours for for an FAA examiner check ride was free. In the intervening years I have been complimented many times on my ability to use a rudder. Being mentally challenged, it took 30 years, but today, I consider myself fortunate to have learned to fly in a tailwheel airplane, particularly a Cub. That is probably why I recently bought a PA-18-95 without an electrical system to teach my grandchildren how to fly.

  8. #8
    n40ff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    987
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have no idea what's needed for a PPL today but if the airplane has instrumentation and radios required, why not? Bud Davidson once taught a young man through PPL in a Pitts Special.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    7,370
    Post Thanks / Like
    We have done two PPLs in Super Cubs. It requires an attitude indicator. The DPEs are now constrained. Do you know how easy it is to add an attitude indicator? Also need a night X-C, which is really tough without a generator. It is marginally possible with a big aircraft battery and LED strobes.

    My thoughts are - first ten hours, solo, and spin training. After that, i expect students to go back to Cherokees and Cirrusi. At least they will have been introduced to stick and rudder - most just want to go really fast from A to B.

  10. #10
    n40ff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    987
    Post Thanks / Like
    There was a MD in Cumberland Marcia worked with, was taking instruction somewhere around DC in something at like $300/hour. Had over 20 hours and hadn't soloed. Last I heard he just gave up...... He told Marcia he would spend $150 sitting on the end of the runway getting their S... together before they could get the ^%$#$ airplane into the air.

    I learned in a PA28 and soloed at 7.2 hours. Marcia started in a C152 and soloed at 5.3 hours on a calm evening. Back when things were simple. Now you not only have to learn to fly but have to manage a bunch of crap and know more to %$^#$ solo than I needed for an instrument rating in 1975. My PPL cost me a total of $700 in 1971= to about 5 weeks take home pay FWIW

    These new glass cockpits, you could turn the display upside down and it would make just as much sense to me.

    Oh well

Similar Threads

  1. Cessna 180 Primary CHT Gauge Replacement
    By Steve Pierce in forum Cessna: C180/C182/C185
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-27-2016, 12:14 PM
  2. FAI CFI for Primary Training?
    By pa11driver in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-22-2014, 04:05 AM
  3. Approved Primary Instruments...
    By Beach Bum in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-13-2011, 06:22 PM
  4. Primary cub instructor in Anchorage
    By AKCub in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-22-2007, 03:03 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •