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Artificial Horizon Instruments

stewartb

MEMBER
Spun off from the no vacuum Skywagon thread....

Looking for comparisons, opinions, PIREPS of assorted electric horizon instruments.

RC Allen TSO electric mechanical gyro
RC Allen TSO electric digital gyro
TruTrak non-TSO electric attitude only (not interested in the more inclusinve display)
MGL non-TSO electric attitude (by far the least expensive)
Others?
 
I'm planning on using the RC Allen "RCA 2600-3". It is electric digital with accelerometers, and displays actual attitude rather than vector path. The installation & operating instructions are online and offer lots of information.
 
RC Allen 2600-3 TSO electric digital gyro

I'm planning on using the RC Allen "RCA 2600-3". It is electric digital with accelerometers, and displays actual attitude rather than vector path. The installation & operating instructions are online and offer lots of information.


RC Allen RCA 2600-3 is our choice at the moment.
It has been covered before but what tilt are you specifying.
Have I understood this correctly, if you specify 8deg, the unit fires up and aligns to indicate 8deg NU so that when you get airborne it shows 0deg in cruise at 90mph.
 
Yes. Additionally, the newer ones have a "synch" feature. You press two buttons simultaneously and the horizon bar centers.

Stewart, if you find yourself knocking around Western Washington and have the time, you can fly mine - it has both the Dynon D1 and RCA electronic horizon. I'm based at KTDO.
 
RC Allen RCA 2600-3 is our choice at the moment.
It has been covered before but what tilt are you specifying.
Have I understood this correctly, if you specify 8deg, the unit fires up and aligns to indicate 8deg NU so that when you get airborne it shows 0deg in cruise at 90mph.

I'll specify 7* forward tilt. The 2600-3 will come on-line when the tail is raised for take-off. The unit will show an X on the display until the tail is raised. This is from RCA's technical information referenced herein above.

The tilt of the panel is measured with the airplane's longitudinal axis set to level.
 
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RC Allen RCA 2600-3 is our choice at the moment.
It has been covered before but what tilt are you specifying.
Have I understood this correctly, if you specify 8deg, the unit fires up and aligns to indicate 8deg NU so that when you get airborne it shows 0deg in cruise at 90mph.

When they say 'specify 8*, etc.' this means the tilt of the instrument panel FROM 90* at level flight. You need to specify this angle with most gyro type instruments when ordering them up. Otherwise you may end up shimming them to make them work. Example: Prop the tail up in level flight attitude as per leveling instructions. Put a level on the instrument panel. If the level indicates 90* then you would tell the manufacturer to set your instrument to 0* panel tilt. If your level reads 84* then you tell the manufacturer to set the instrument to 6* panel tilt.

Web
 
Are you talking about something to go into a certificated airplane, or an experimental? Your choices are quite limited if you want certified devices. I was just googling electronic attitude type instruments, and besides the Dynon, GRT, and MGL that I am (somewhat) familiar with, Avmap makes a nice looking little unit called the Ultra-EFIS. It lists at $1050, and has more features than you can shake a stick at.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/efis_0browse/avmap-ultra-efis-2.php
 
I run a trutrak adi. It displays rate of climb / descent instead of pitch, so there's no in-flight adjustment required in my taildragger.

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It's tied to the pitot/static system, and gets rate of climb that way. It will initially show pitch up or down through its solid state gyros, but displays rate of climb pretty quick after.

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I run a trutrak adi. It displays rate of climb / descent instead of pitch, so there's no in-flight adjustment required in my taildragger.

I recall reading that in the TruTrak write-up.
Let's say you're in a steep final approach, nose-up for low speed, with the power on to regulate the sink rate. The ADI would show you nose down? Don't think I'd like that.
 
Our impression is that the RCA 2600 is perfect because it will provide accurate attitude reference in pitch and roll independent of everything but a basic power supply, indeed not affected by icing.

With 2100rpm set, aircraft pitch set with reference to actual horizon for straight and level flight, we get 85mph. Hopefully the RCA 2600 will show 0deg pitch and wings level.

Pretty well set up then if you suddenly lose visual reference, artificial horizon gives you safe options. Maintain straight and level/climb or bank over for a 180deg exit back where you came from.
 
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I set my horizon occasionally to reflect level flight in my current state of trim depending on load. I'd expect to do the same with a digital instrument. And what does icing have to do with any horizon instrument?
 
I like the looks of the Sandia unit -- compact & with not too much stuff crammed into it. $3600 is a lot of cheese though-- about double what a Dynon D6 costs (and does less), but that's to be expected with approved stuff. However, although the word "certified!" is plastered across the pic of this device on the linked webpage, I have to wonder if it really is fully approved after reading the FAQ's.

"Q; Will it be TSO'd...? A: Yes it will.

Q: Will I be able to replace my vacuum system gyros? A: Start a conversation with your shop as this is a basic question for the FSDO to respond to.

Q: Can this unit replace my vacuum driven system? A: Yes, in part 23 aircraft please follow this link to the FAA AC 91-75.

Q: Will I need an STC? A: Ask your local shop to call upon the FAA FSDO for guidance and for reference to AC 91-75"

Seems kinda vague and evasive to me, and sounds like it'll be up to you to argue the legality with your FAA inspector. They should just get an STC or whatever to make it a no-brainer.
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It's tied to the pitot/static system, and gets rate of climb that way. It will initially show pitch up or down through its solid state gyros, but displays rate of climb pretty quick after.

.............................. And what does icing have to do with any horizon instrument?


stewartb: In response to CamTom12 talking about his "trutrak adi" attitude system tied into the pitot/static, that has icing implications.
 
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I recall reading that in the TruTrak write-up.
Let's say you're in a steep final approach, nose-up for low speed, with the power on to regulate the sink rate. The ADI would show you nose down? Don't think I'd like that.

It wouldn't show you nose down, but it would show your rate of descent. You get used to it real quick. I find it preferable to a standard AI now, because level flight is level flight, a climb is a climb, and a descent is a descent - who cares what your pitch attitude is.

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That's an interesting comment and is the kind of local knowledge I was looking for when I asked for pireps. Thanks!
 
It wouldn't show you nose down, but it would show your rate of descent. You get used to it real quick. I find it preferable to a standard AI now, because level flight is level flight, a climb is a climb, and a descent is a descent - who cares what your pitch attitude is.

I have one as well and agree. If you are flying in icing conditions in a Cub this would be the least of your concerns though a heated pitot system will cure.
 

From the linked FAA policy statement:
Policy For part 23/CAR 3 aircraft under 6,000 pounds with vacuum-driven attitude instruments, it is acceptable to replace vacuum-driven attitude instruments with electronically-driven attitude indicators under the following conditions:
1. A single function vacuum-driven attitude indicator may be replaced with a single primary function electronically-driven attitude indicator. A single function vacuum-driven attitude indicator may also be replaced with an electronically-driven attitude indicator that provides a secondary (advisory) function (such as turn & slip indication).

The Sandia instrument combines attitude,altimeter, airspeed, and skid information-- four functions (hence the snappy name "quatro"). So I'm not sure it meets the requirement listed above re: single function / secondary function. But I'm kinda confused about the policy statement-- it doesn't clarify if they're talking about equipment for IFR flight or VFR flight. They also don't mention anything about TSO'd instruments. If a TSO isn't required, then something like a Dynon, GRT, AvMap, etc could be installed-- unfortunately
most of the whiz-bang stuff combine the whole instrument six-pack's worth of functions and sometimes even more.
 
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I'm focused on the experimental world. I'd appreciate a pirep from anyone with Garmin G3X experience. The more I look at it the more I like it. I'm interested in comments from somebody with more than demo flight time behind one. Thanks.
 
Stewart, a buddy of mine put one in his Blackhawk helicopter and really likes it. I believe he said it's not "legal " for ifr. But it will work. Seems to like it pretty good. I don't know much else about it. Cubcrafters had one in their new factory built/owner build cub at Johnson creek. I flew it but never looked at it. Lou flew it at new Holstein, maybe he'll pipe in.


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Stewart
i spend about 4 hours flying behind a G3X this summer in the new CC EX. A very impressive suite of information. Garmin really did their homework. The screen does appear cluttered until you realize that touching on a data field (engine data) brings up an expanded view. Great for aging eyes! And you can integrate their A/P in as well.
Their are others from Dynon, AFS, GRT, etc but Garmin is the gold standard IMHO.
Of course, the biggest advantage is their depiction of terrain, SV, etc. Great SA for flying in mountainous terrain.
I suggest you take a demo flight to see for yourself.

Lou
 
I priced a G3X with the engine monitor package, remote comm, and remote ADS-B compliant transponder against the comparable Dynon Skyview and they're pennies apart, literally. I like Garmin so if I go glass I'll favor Garmin. You were correct about the aggregate cost of my other plan being equal to the G3X suite and I'd still need an iPad. That wasn't what I expected but that's why I ask these questions. FWIW the Garmin auto pilot adds $1500 to the G3X for two axis w/servos. The jury's out on that part but it does sound like fun and it doesn't break the bank.

I'm like a kid in a candy store with what's available in the E-AB market. Amazing stuff and lots of choices. I should have done this a long time ago.
 
From the linked FAA policy statement: .......
A single function vacuum-driven attitude indicator may be replaced with a single primary function electronically-driven attitude indicator. A single function vacuum-driven attitude indicator may also be replaced with an electronically-driven attitude indicator that provides a secondary (advisory) function (such as turn & slip indication). ....

I was thinking about the wording of this 9/14/15 policy statement. The number of electronic attitude indicators available these days with only one or two functions seem to be greatly outnumbered by those with 4 or more functions.
It seems as though this policy statement was written that way to specifically exclude the EFIS units by Dynon, GRT, and others that combine multiple speed/altitude/directional displays along with the attitude....but without actually naming names.
 
It says "may also be replaced", not must or should. This is an improvement over the past when they required a "steam" gauge as a backup.
 
Looked into the Sandia. The attitude indicator is TSO'd as a primary instrument. All other instruments in the Sandia, even thought TSO'd, are for back up only. you will still need an altimeter, airspeed, and T&B to supplement the Sandia in a certified plane, if those instruments are included in the TC.

As a simpler fall back I am opting for an electric T&B, and using foreflight with the Stratus module for the Aritificial Horizon. The synthetic vision works well, but needs to be reset in the taildragger when you are level, and you must be in smooth air conditions.
 
I priced a G3X with the engine monitor package, remote comm, and remote ADS-B compliant transponder against the comparable Dynon Skyview and they're pennies apart, literally. I like Garmin so if I go glass I'll favor Garmin. You were correct about the aggregate cost of my other plan being equal to the G3X suite and I'd still need an iPad. That wasn't what I expected but that's why I ask these questions. FWIW the Garmin auto pilot adds $1500 to the G3X for two axis w/servos. The jury's out on that part but it does sound like fun and it doesn't break the bank.

I'm like a kid in a candy store with what's available in the E-AB market. Amazing stuff and lots of choices. I should have done this a long time ago.

Decision made. G3X Touch with remote comm, remote ADS-B out compliant transponder, GDL39R (remote) for ADS-B in, engine info package, and two axis auto pilot. The auto pilot is too cheap an upgrade not to add it. Glass panel with synthetic vision and auto pilot in a Cub. A single 10" display does it all. Who would have believed that 15 or 20 years ago? Not me.
 
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