Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: G3X Touch question

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,472
    Post Thanks / Like

    G3X Touch question

    Anyone running one (or similar system) and elected to add a second battery (efis backup power) to prevent the system from cycling off during starting or charge system reset? It's a Garmin installation option and it sounds like a good idea but would appreciate pireps from guys that have these systems. Necessary? Convenient? Unimportant?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Anyone running one (or similar system) and elected to add a second battery (efis backup power) to prevent the system from cycling off during starting or charge system reset? It's a Garmin installation option and it sounds like a good idea but would appreciate pireps from guys that have these systems. Necessary? Convenient? Unimportant?

    Thanks.
    While I haven't installed them in a G3 unit, I have installed them in other, similar instruments. I don't consider them 'mandatory' but I do highly recommend them. My reasoning is that the unit is still usable if there is a catastrophic power failure, which reduces the load on the pilot. Also lessens the load on the ships battery if there is a charging system failure. May not seem like much but if you have an electronic ignition system installed, it would be nice to keep the ships battery power running only the ignition system.
    There are some programming issues to be dealt with, at set up, such as when the unit will shut down or stay on when external power is removed. So carefully check the install manual for these options.
    It is also a minor maintenance item as the internal battery needs to be function checked occasionally and most need to be replaced on a calendar basis.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,472
    Post Thanks / Like
    ASA/Merrill Field Instruments is doing the wiring and asked aboit a backup battery. I'm searching for wiring diagrams in the manual and so far have come up short. I recall AKtahoe mentioning his G3X cycling during engine start but never gave it any thought til now. I'm not sure what to do but ASA is providing wiring for the backup if I choose to use it.

  4. #4
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    ASA/Merrill Field Instruments is doing the wiring and asked aboit a backup battery. I'm searching for wiring diagrams in the manual and so far have come up short. I recall AKtahoe mentioning his G3X cycling during engine start but never gave it any thought til now. I'm not sure what to do but ASA is providing wiring for the backup if I choose to use it.
    I'm not at the shop yet (manuals) but I believe that it's an internal battery so there shouldn't be any extra wiring. If there is Jim will take care of it. He's one of the best I've worked around.
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,472
    Post Thanks / Like
    They rattled off a couple of Garmin recmmended backup batteries and they sounded like computer equipment. I know some guys install redundant batteries for EFII systems but my Pmags don't need it. Having a "clean" power supply for the G3X is something I never considered til now. I need to check into the Garmin recommendations. This stuff only happens on weekends when nobody's at their shop!

    Here's one option. http://tcwtech.com/ibbs_integrated_b...m_3ah_6ah.html
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-07-2017 at 11:37 AM.

  6. #6
    ceslaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    157
    Post Thanks / Like
    Cub Crafters uses a back up battery for the G3X. They use the specific one you noted: TCW Model IBBS-12v-3ah.

    Another reason for using it is convenience. It takes several minutes for the G3X to load. My routine when I arrive at the plane is turn on the IBBS switch which brings up the G3X without the main power being on. When the preflight is complete, the G3X is fully loaded and the master can then be flipped on and you are ready to go without a wait.

    If I need to program the G3X I just use the back up battery. No load on the primary battery.

    This battery will give about an hour of operation.

    The back up battery only operates the G3X. It does not operate the transponder or radio, maximizing the time the G3X will function, in our set up.

    Unlike the back up battery for the electronic ignition, the G3X battery back up battery does not require annual replacement. Function of course needs to be checked, although using it in the manner described confirms it is working on a regular basis.

    The backup battery also protects the G3X from surges or drops in voltage so the G3X can be 'on' when starting and stopping the engine.

    By now you have probably gathered that I consider this backup system a pretty good idea.

  7. #7
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    The backup battery also protects the G3X from surges or drops in voltage so the G3X can be 'on' when starting and stopping the engine.

    Please explain that one.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  8. #8
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hey stewartb. See page E-3 of the install manual. It shows a suggested way of hooking up that battery. Not sure how much it costs, but you could do the same job with another battery and a power diode. Not much to it.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  9. #9
    ceslaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    157
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    The backup battery also protects the G3X from surges or drops in voltage so the G3X can be 'on' when starting and stopping the engine.

    Please explain that one.

    Web
    that tidbit comes straight from the TCW manual. I'm not an electrical expert, but I suspect having an independent power source with a steady voltage protects against the the inevitable voltage fluctuations that occur when starting.

  10. #10
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm not buying it. Any battery will protect, somewhat, from surges, but the only way to truly protect an item from surges or being 'spiked' is to have it shut down or have it on an independent battery during startup or any other event creating spikes. If this unit uses a relay to disconnect the aircraft system from the G3X it would protect it. If it uses electronics to do that, it will not protect it. Just sounds like an empty advertising slogan.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,472
    Post Thanks / Like
    From the G3X Touch installation manual. See line 14 and 15.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0271.PNG 
Views:	49 
Size:	378.0 KB 
ID:	29612  

  12. #12
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    Like I said earlier, shut down or on an independent power source. If you look at the diagrams/notes, 'aircraft power 2' input is for a second power source such as a battery. If you power the unit off the secondary battery and are NOT connected to the aircraft battery during startup, there will be no surge or spike injected into the unit. And it won't reset or dim down. ANY battery connected as a secondary power source will fulfill this function. Doesn't have to be the TCW battery.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,472
    Post Thanks / Like
    Battery, built-in charger, switching circuit, status outputs, it talks to the Garmin (and apparently the other popular EFIS brands), and the unit is contained in a single little box that weighs 18oz and costs $230.00. Given the itty bitty starting batteries that we use these days I can see how engaging a starter might cause a voltage drop and cycle the G3X. Plus it provides dedicated backup power to the avionics. Pretty cool. Thanks for the replies and the information.

    The power stabilizer by the same company may be a better choice for some.
    The patented technology in the IPS system ensures the connected electronic equipment is provided with a stabilized source of power even when the aircraft battery voltage drops significantly. This is particularly important during engine starting or alternator out conditions. IPS additionally provides surge protection by actively clamping the regulated output voltage.
    http://tcwtech.com/IPS_12v_intellige...tabilizer.html
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-08-2017 at 09:01 AM.

  14. #14
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    Get it if it makes you feel good. As I stated earlier, I think a secondary power source is good for a few reasons. But a small battery wired to the G3X with a switch and a diode can do the same thing. Their advertising is filled with a lot of 'smoke'. Such as their claim of a 'built in charger'. That's the main bus, to you and me. Any rechargeable battery connected to a source with a higher voltage will re charge. The 'switching circuit' is either a switch, a relay circuit, or a combination of the two. Want a 'status output'? connect a generic voltmeter.
    I've set these systems up from scratch and believe that they are a good idea for a couple of different situations but do your home work and don't buy into empty advertising.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    The TCW equipment is excellent and the support is quite good. We've done dozens with the G3X and always price them in for the IFR guys and recommend for the VFR guys. They come in different Ah ratings dependant on how much time you want your equipment to run after a failure. Dynon sells their own unit with the Skyview.

  16. #16
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    The G3X isn't like an ignition system as per power requirements. If you feel you need to connect it to a back up battery, this is the simplest way:
    Go to Batteries Plus or similar. Buy a 1 ah sealed battery. Connect it to the common terminal of a SPDT toggle switch. Connect one of the remaining terminals to the main bus, through a 5A diode. Connect the last terminal to 'Aircraft Power 2' on the G3X, through a 5A breaker. Install the toggle switch in the panel so that when the toggle is down, the battery is being charged through the diode and the G3X is being powered by the main bus, through 'Aircraft Power 1'. Anytime you need to power the G3X independent of the main bus, move the toggle to the up position and it will receive power from the battery only.

    You can wire this yourself and it will cast less than $50.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    The TCW is able to do more than described above. It automatically outputs power when the ships bus voltage drops below 11 volts. No pilot input required. It will provide an output to let you know its charge state and output to let you know its activated.

    It will prevent the G3X from rebooting during engine start as already described and has pass through circuits allowing a separate power input to a device, which is really only useful for single power input units or when using a VPX connected to an MFD.

    Both Garmin and TCW have great support so feel free to contact them and both have all their documentation online for free.

    It all comes down to your type of flying and wants.

  18. #18
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,439
    Post Thanks / Like
    A battery installed as above will do all that except engage automatically. If you want that add a relay.

    Maybe you think I'm knocking TCW. I'm not. But I am saying that the back up battery that you've listed is nothing special.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  19. #19
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,558
    Post Thanks / Like
    I don't know a thing about the G3X, but I installed a G5 in my 180,
    they are designed to work in conjunction with a G3X and there is a backup battery available from Garmin for them ($150).
    I'm surprised that Garmin doesn't offer a similar set-up for their G3X.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,472
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    A battery installed as above will do all that except engage automatically. If you want that add a relay.

    Maybe you think I'm knocking TCW. I'm not. But I am saying that the back up battery that you've listed is nothing special.

    Web
    Battery, charger, status outputs, auto switching.... affordable, compact, and about a pound. I have better things to do than reinvent the wheel. The question was whether it was worth adding. My avionics guy thinks so, CubCrafters apparently thinks so, and now a couple of user pireps agree. That's what I was looking for.

    TCW also makes a very interesting electric trim controller, and they have one that can handle up to 10a. Building this plane is exposing me to lots of things I never knew existed. I didn't need to know before now. I hope this discussion helps others that follow.
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-09-2017 at 11:50 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Touch-up enamel to match Cub Yellow 143?
    By NunavutPA-12 in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-05-2015, 11:34 AM
  2. One Touch optical tach checker
    By StewartB in forum Tips and Tricks
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-08-2011, 09:07 PM
  3. Is EAA losing touch with members?
    By Richgj3 in forum Member to Member
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-15-2007, 08:46 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •