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Thread: Building an Experimental PA11

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Has anyone just mounted a small gearmotor back there to run a belt/cable to just turn the stock pulley on the jackscrew?

    Glenn
    or just take the pulley off and hook the motor output shaft direct to the jackscrew?

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    or just take the pulley off and hook the motor output shaft direct to the jackscrew?
    Thats pretty much what bill rusk did on his Javron

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    or just take the pulley off and hook the motor output shaft direct to the jackscrew?
    Electric motors do not have much power when operating from a dead start. They would be much better in this type of application if they had a reduction gearing/belt pulley arraignment where the motor could get some RPM while doing it's work.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 05-27-2018 at 12:54 PM.
    N1PA

  4. #44
    Southern Aero's Avatar
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    Glenn

    I haven't found a satisfactory way of driving the jack screw and leaving the manual trim in place............. need some kind of clutch/disconnect ...... I have experimented with several gearmotors but haven't found a lighter one that has enuff power to work under and air load. I have also been working on incorporating a Mitchell trim motor assembly from some old Piper Comanche Senaca, etc. Little heavy so have been working a modified gearmotor with same working principal. Will post something later on it if I get it to work properly. Maybe someone else has already done this and can shed some light?
    ......... It doesn't cost any more to go first class! You just can't stay as long.

  5. #45

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    thousands of high torque startup motors out there like this.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NMDPQAQ...a-323303013812

  6. #46
    gbflyer's Avatar
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    Can’t recall fooling with the trim much on the -11 we had. Had the -18 balanced tail, understand the Pacer width tail is the best.

    Certainly not a moose hauler. I’d think the Ray Allen servo and a tab would be a pretty simple and light solution. Works good on our current S7S. I doubt we use 5 degrees of the available deflection.

  7. #47
    Southern Aero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    thousands of high torque startup motors out there like this.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NMDPQAQ...a-323303013812
    Yup, quite familiar with them ......... have quite a few. Would work fine but I want to be able to disconnect from the drive so I can manually trim. The Mitchell type have a spur gear that is disconnected when power to the drive motor and solenoid is removed allowing you to still manually trim. I am experimenting with that kind of disconnect with one of these gearmotors
    ......... It doesn't cost any more to go first class! You just can't stay as long.

  8. #48
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Why do you want manual trim also? Redundancy? Fine adjustment? Just curious, thanks!
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  9. #49
    Southern Aero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    Why do you want manual trim also? Redundancy? Fine adjustment? Just curious, thanks!
    Yes to both!
    ......... It doesn't cost any more to go first class! You just can't stay as long.
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  10. #50
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Interesting. I will be helping a friend with an experimental -12, and I was planning to recommend to him an electric trim similar to what Stewart used. That's why I asked.

    So my follow-up question is, why the need for manual "fine adjustment"? The higher load capacity linear actuators have slower travel rates, which I think might be why Stewart's actuator has such a high force rating. I think.

    Calling Bill Rusk - - what is the travel rate of your electric trim system, and do you have issues with setting the trim "exactly" where you want it?

    Redundancy, to me, isn't important because at least in my -12 I only touch the trim for changes in loading.

    Edit: I think that cruise would be the only flight regime where an "exact" trim setting would be desirable. But in that regime a small change in engine power setting can achieve approximately the same effect as a small change in trim setting. Or I just set my arm on my lap so there is a slight stick pressure.

    Not trying to be adverse, just trying to envision an optimal solution. Thanks - -
    Gordon

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  11. #51

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    http://www.tcwtech.com/Safety-Trim-Page.htm

    Actuators will use the 10A model. High speed-low speed controllable and the low speed rate is user adjustable at the module.
    Last edited by stewartb; 05-28-2018 at 06:58 AM.
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  12. #52
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    I have about the same setup as Bill Rusk and I love it. No pulley or cables. Very simple. About 17 seconds on the ground.. Easy to trim perfect.

    I can't really see the purpose of having redundancy in a Cub trim system..? Worst case scenario is almost really a non event.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olibuilt View Post
    I have about the same setup as Bill Rusk and I love it. No pulley or cables. Very simple. About 17 seconds on the ground.. Easy to trim perfect.

    I can't really see the purpose of having redundancy in a Cub trim system..? Worst case scenario is almost really a non event.
    Just power it through a pull-able (new word) circuit breaker, so it can be readily disabled should a switch stick.

  14. #54
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    http://www.tcwtech.com/Safety-Trim-Page.htm

    Actuators will use the 10A model. High speed-low speed controllable and the low speed rate is user adjustable at the module.
    Stewart, could you please give an operational report on this system when you've flown it a bit?
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  15. #55
    PerryB's Avatar
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    If I ever DO get around to building a SC it's going to have an electric actuator with a digital position indicator. Phooey on cables, wires, pulleys and springs.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryB View Post
    Just power it through a pull-able (new word) circuit breaker, so it can be readily disabled should a switch stick.
    Yes, just run the positive wire to a toggle switch ahead of the rocker switch so it can kill the juice if it sticks

  17. #57
    PerryB's Avatar
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    I was just thinking of a plunger type CB, but the ones that have a protruding head that can be pulled. As opposed to the ones that push in flush.
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  18. #58
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    I don't any trim indicator in my case. I Just takeoff full nose down trim and work my way from there.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olibuilt View Post
    I don't any trim indicator in my case. I Just takeoff full nose down trim and work my way from there.
    Just curious, is your plane somewhat aft on the CG? It surprises me you go to full nose down for takeoff. Or does that have something to do with a modified thrustline?

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    Stewart, could you please give an operational report on this system when you've flown it a bit?
    Slow speed might make sense for the RV guys who are all about going fast but I'm confident the faster speed will be fine in the Cub. It isn't that fast. And I do like the three second time limit. Nobody wants runaway trim and the little stick top switch is the weak link in the system.
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  21. #61

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    You can always try to make things easier when building your own cub...this boot cowl allows access to the front rudder pedals.
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  22. #62
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryB View Post
    Just curious, is your plane somewhat aft on the CG? It surprises me you go to full nose down for takeoff. Or does that have something to do with a modified thrustline?


    I was teached to do so, for shorter takeoff distances. Just like full nose up for landing. But the plane feel more natural at about neutral trim.

  23. #63

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    Any of you out there with experience see an issue with me using a J3 engine mount? I know the PA11 is 4 degrees different....but what will this do? how will affect flight characteristics? This is a plans built fuselage and I have mounted the O200 using the J3 mount.

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  24. #64

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    Hot Damn Dan!! Looking good!! Your kickin my butt!
    If you get lost while flying, don't try hail a cop. Pick up the first railroad you find and hug it until you get somewhere.

  25. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    Any of you out there with experience see an issue with me using a J3 engine mount? I know the PA11 is 4 degrees different....but what will this do? how will affect flight characteristics? This is a plans built fuselage and I have mounted the O200 using the J3 mount.
    Leave the J3 mount; it is automatic thrustline-mod, and in my humble opinion, the only way to go on this fuselage/wing combo.

    Only downside is that on 29s with big gear, you won't be able to see much over the nose when on the ground. Takeoff, landing, flight characteristics of zerothrustline on this fuselage and wing is fantastic and far outweigh the need to s-turn while taxiing.

    (I fly a Wag Aero J3/PA-11 like thing with a zero-ish degree thrustline up on big tires and gear)
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  26. #66

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    I haven’t worked on my project much this summer since I took on building a new hangar....I did take it all apart for fabric work ( only fuselage and ailerons left to cover) but I had a local guy do me up some seats. I think they look pretty nice.
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  27. #67
    39-J3's Avatar
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    I saw on another thread that you are back to working on your 11. I am looking forward to following your progress and curios as to what the empty weight will be as I have a stout 0-200 powered PA 11.

    Larry.
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  28. #68

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    I had this fuselage envelope so I used it...I wouldn’t use an envelope again, more of a pain than it’s worth...I had to splice the tail fin piece on since it was separate. Anyway, I’m plugging along again. Once I finish tapes on this, all I have left for fabric are ailerons and landing gear....then 3 to 1 brush coats and ekofill....should be ready to paint when the weather warms. My fuselage rotator was at my dads 100 miles away so I used the old 2x4 trick. I didn’t feel like fabricating a new one. Lol
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  29. #69

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    Here's my fake carbon fiber panel
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  30. #70
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Dan,
    How's your progress on the Cub Special
    coming along????
    E

    Sent from my moto e5 go using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  31. #71

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    After a disappointing Orange peel mess yesterday with this Stewart’s Ekopoly....I relaxed, wet sanded for about an hour and a half, and resprayed....you just have to be brave on the final wet coat and flow it on...there’s a fine line where it will run ....figure it out before you spray your fuselage! Lol
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  32. #72

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    the Stewart’s system is very nice...I was nervous when I had orange peel on my fuselage, but I wet sanded it with 320 and tack coated it and the applied a nice final coat....the gun was about 6-8 inches away and if you follow the wet edge and hold the gun so that the spray turns wet about a second or 2 after you pass over that spot it lays down nice...I got a little ballsy on my last side and had to turn the side flat and chase a run for a bit...it started to sag on a 30degree angle but settled out once I rotated it flat. I babysat it until it set up. Hopefully I can get all my parts painted in the next 2 weeks...I’ll have to take some vacation to do it.... I’m getting motivated as things come together��
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  33. #73
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    Looking great. The most gratifying and frustrating segment of an airplane build.

  34. #74

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    Well, I spent 2 entire days trying to fit the baffling inside the cowl....apparently I’m a lousy template guy. I’m not happy with my lower cowl, I need to modify my modification I did to adapt it to the zero thrust J3 mount. Otherwise things are preogressing nicely
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  35. #75

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    Looking great!

    Catto "seaplane" prop? (exactly what is on my 11 clone)

  36. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    Looking great!

    Catto "seaplane" prop? (exactly what is on my 11 clone)
    Yes, 76-36 Catto

  37. #77
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    That is "the prop" on an 11.
    Just had a friend get a 76/35 for his 0-200
    Turns it 2550 static/ 435lbs thrust.
    Really wakes these little motors up!
    Bet your going to have awesome performance .
    Good luck, looking good.
    E

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  38. #78

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    I really should be painting my wings, but I bought this 3M premium vinyl and thought I’d test out some striping
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  39. #79

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    this stuff is pretty impressive...extremely thin but durable...it looks very much like it’s painted
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  40. #80
    G44's Avatar
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    Dan, what airport are you located? Is that the hangar you built a few years back?

    Kurt
    Kalamazoo

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