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Thread: Winter Oil, Aviation oil/auto oil

  1. #41
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph206 View Post
    Has anyone here have any experience with Schaeffer oil ??
    A representative was in our shop and gave a demonstration of its oil.
    Very impressive.
    They make a 20w50. called Supreme 7000.
    Para synthetic.
    Thinking of trying it.
    Is it an approved aviation oil? If not, I wouldn't even think of putting it in an aircraft engine. If it is approved, tell us more about it.

    MTV

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph206 View Post
    Has anyone here have any experience with Schaeffer oil ??
    A representative was in our shop and gave a demonstration of its oil.
    Very impressive.
    They make a 20w50. called Supreme 7000.
    Para synthetic.
    Thinking of trying it.
    I've been using it in my Ford diesel for years (7.3 litre). It was recommends by a ford guru that rebuilds ford transmissions and then gives a lifetime guarantee. I've got one of those too. He runs double turbos way up there in horsepower. Swears by shaefers. Brian's truck shop in Lead Hill AR. But I don't know about using it in the plane. Might b good to find out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #43
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    As a rule, oil recommended for gasoline engines is rarely recommended for diesel engines, and vise versa

  4. #44

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    Lots of "scaredy cats" on here. "Oh of its not aviation oil". Must be Harley Davidson riders too.
    If it wasnt developed in the '30s and then approved in the '50s dont use it!!!!
    T
    I hate to break the news to you "old schoolers" but there have been a lot of technological advancements in motor oil the last 70 years. I would say that if you want to try a new/different oil, go ahead. Just be sure to do some research.
    My old diesel is supposed to take 15w40 and nothing else--- but it sure starts and runs better on 5w40 full synthetic in the winter.
    Now if youre certified then you are limited but if experimental then experiment. Contact your supplier and see what they say about their oils interacting with lead--- or run strictly mogas.
    The newer oils are designed around unleaded so if thats the only fuel you are running it might be best to run a newer oil.

  5. #45
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I remembered an issue with ash deposits from using automotive oil in aircraft engines. I found a very informative article on the subject.

    http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/oil_..._197096-1.html
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  6. #46
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wronghand View Post
    Lots of "scaredy cats" on here. "Oh of its not aviation oil". Must be Harley Davidson riders too.
    If it wasnt developed in the '30s and then approved in the '50s dont use it!!!!
    T
    I hate to break the news to you "old schoolers" but there have been a lot of technological advancements in motor oil the last 70 years. I would say that if you want to try a new/different oil, go ahead. Just be sure to do some research.
    My old diesel is supposed to take 15w40 and nothing else--- but it sure starts and runs better on 5w40 full synthetic in the winter.
    Now if youre certified then you are limited but if experimental then experiment. Contact your supplier and see what they say about their oils interacting with lead--- or run strictly mogas.
    The newer oils are designed around unleaded so if thats the only fuel you are running it might be best to run a newer oil.
    As an avionics guy, I'm usually in favor of new stuff. But with the oil question, you have to remember that we are looking at using oil made for an engine that was, literally, designed in the 30's or 40's. I don't see that as being a 'scaredy cat'. First, I'm not in 3rd grade any more. Second, I believe that the stuff I put on or in an engine should be made for that engine. I'll put Crisco in an engine if someone has set up a logical test that proves it works and is safe. I see more and more operators using multi weight oils, now, compared to just a few years ago, so change is happening slowly. But these oils are made specifically for aircraft engines.

    As for 'experimenting', knock yourself out. Have fun doing it. But, as has been stated above, don't get anyone else hurt or killed. I'm an Alaskan. I truly believe that the only thing Timothy Treadwell did that was totally wrong, was get his girlfriend killed.

    Web

  7. #47
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    From our previous threads on this subject, aviation oil makers tried full synthetics, but they wouldn't carry away enough heat from the valves, so they went with semi's. This was also about the same time that Mobil came out with a defective molecule that broke in half under use, and reduced it's viscosity drastically, so it may have been partially sales related. I used to use Shell 15-50, but after leaving a smoke trail across the country, due to two cylinders plugging up their rings with lead, (in a friend's cub) I switched to Phillips 20-50 with Camguard for corrosion and MMO for the carbon valve deposits...(and the sticky combustion byproducts like lacquers...)
    Last edited by fobjob; 11-21-2015 at 11:51 AM.

  8. #48
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    Insurance, insurance insurance. Already left a guilty track..... Great aviation oil products readily available. 20W50 or even Aeroshell 80W+. Good to talk about this so people understand why. No harm in asking, but lots of harm in bad practice. mvivian is right -obligation to passengers.

  9. #49
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    i never was much good at math, but lets take an old blanket and a 100 w lightbulb under your cowl. Lets say your price per KWH in Ontario is .10 c. That 100 watt bulb is going to use 2400 watts per day,or 2.4 KW. thats 24 cents a day, or $1.68 per week or $7.20 per month or figure 4 winter months is $28.80 Pretty cheap preheat for that $25K motor.
    I plug in the tanis when it gets cold and unplug it when it gets warm

    Corse the Canadian peso will make it more?
    How much is electricity per KWH in ontario? we are riduculous at .16c in Maine

    JIM

  10. #50

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    I got you beat - $0.9332 per kwh. But we do get a subsidy of $0.6317 so the actual cost is ONLY 30 cents per kwh!

    I still pre-heat.

  11. #51
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    I ran my first aircraft engine on 15W50. started it way below zero quite a few times with no preheat. after well over 3000 hrs i finally removed it. It sat for 10 plus years after that. when I finally go around to tearing it down, I found very little abnormal wear. Only thing I didn't like about it was getting too hot in the summer. I've run Phillips X/C for the last dozen years, but thinking of going back to the Aeroshell for the planes that just fly in the winter cause every once in a while i don't preheat them.

  12. #52
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    What do you think the advantage is with Aeroshell 15w50 over Phillips 20w50 for cold starts?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  13. #53
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    Did this Guy from Schaeffers oil address how his oil reacts chemically with leaded gasoline when used in air cooled engines?
    N1PA

  14. #54

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    The Timken tester is a lubricity testing device. Fuels and lubes lab at Pitt State in Kansas had one when I was there. As I remember RotellaT was the best for diesels and that nothing beat Amesoil products early in the synthetic days on the auto side.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  15. #55

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    I am such a skeptic when it involves a salesman. Once my wife invited a guy to demonstrate a vacuum sweeper. When he put a couch cushion in a plastic bag and sucked it flat she was sold. She was really POd when I refused to hand over the cash. As soon as the salesman was out the door I grabbed the old wore out machine that she hated and a big garbage bag and showed her it sucked cushions flat just as good as that high dollar thing.
    After the oil guy does his oil, clean off the wheel and do your oil again just to make sure the wheel or rod itself didn't change on the first go round with your oil. My dark side tells me something changes on the wheel during the the heat or friction of the first try with your oil. They been scuffing ball bearings and running engines with the oil pan off to demonstrate products through the years. None of the wonder products has become the perfect lube yet. jrh
    You can't get there from here. You have to go over yonder and start from there.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph206 View Post
    at 1Pm today he is bringing machine back , and I am going to test the Phillips by itself and then with cam guard.
    Video?

    And do some homework first https://youtu.be/Yu5H_7Tsn-s

    Glenn

  17. #57

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    I really wish I knew for sure if Rotella for diesels was "good to go" in my 85hp.
    I usually use Shell 80 or 100 which was $110. /12 pack 3yrs ago & available about 100 miles from here

  18. #58
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    Camguard isn't designed to increase lubricity, it's an additive package to increase corrosion resistance.

  19. #59

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    Camguard isn't a viscosity modifier but I'm not sure it doesn't improve lubrication. I guess it depends on what your trying to define. http://www.aslcamguard.com/tech-data...ar-performance

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    What do you think the advantage is with Aeroshell 15w50 over Phillips 20w50 for cold starts?
    Put a quart of each in your freezer for a week. then take them out and pour them out. you'll probably see the difference. (altho Ive never tried this). the Aeroshell always had instant pressure. cant say the same for Phillips

  21. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    Put a quart of each in your freezer for a week. then take them out and pour them out. you'll probably see the difference. (altho Ive never tried this). the Aeroshell always had instant pressure. cant say the same for Phillips
    Well ya that's the difference between 20 and 15 weight, even a Texan won't take that bet...
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  22. #62
    zenairdave's Avatar
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    How does Joseph206 keep typing with disappearing ink??

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenairdave View Post
    How does Joseph206 keep typing with disappearing ink??
    Hillary should have hired HIM!

    Web

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenairdave View Post
    How does Joseph206 keep typing with disappearing ink??
    I heard he has no lead in his pencil

    Glenn

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Hillary should have hired HIM!

    Web
    Those Fighting words!!!!!

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Video?

    And do some homework first https://youtu.be/Yu5H_7Tsn-s

    Glenn
    I was trying to be serious.
    After this Poke.
    I decided not to post anymore.

  27. #67
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    Be nice joe, if you keep it up you won't have any flying buddies this winter.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Be nice joe, if you keep it up you won't have any flying buddies this winter.
    I got him covered, for Christmas I'm sending Flint a down doggy parka so that Joe has some company.

    Glenn

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    I got him covered, for Christmas I'm sending Flint a down doggy parka so that Joe has some company.

    Glenn
    As long as you keep the dog up there!

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    As long as you keep the dog up there!
    No way, fido is almost as wacky as his owner. I was going to say master but I'm not sure whos in charge most days.

    Glenn

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph206 View Post
    I was trying to be serious.
    After this Poke.
    I decided not to post anymore.
    This is a forum, you have to take the serious with the not so serious and the good advice from the poor advice.
    I will say that video of the shell game guy is amazing. You could lose your weeks paycheck to him.

  32. #72

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    as for oil dilution.... its old as the hills, 1930's at least. the old timers used it, the military too back when they still had piston engines. the oil sumps on radials have a hopper inside to allow fuel to circulate with a limited quantity of oil at shut down. that gives "loose" oil for the next start. then as the engine ran, the fuel would evaporate off, the warm oil thawing the cold oil. it was common on Beavers & Otters for sure. I know Continental made an oil dilution system for the big 6 cylinder engines, but I never worked on one. no reason it wouldn't work but finding the parts would be tough & I don't remember seeing anything for four cylinder engines ever.

  33. #73
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I seem to remember that one of the options which Cessna offered for the 1970s 180/185 was an oil dilution system.
    N1PA

  34. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I seem to remember that one of the options which Cessna offered for the 1970s 180/185 was an oil dilution system.
    My 180 has the switch blank but the system was never installed. I've wondered more than once how those work.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  35. #75
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    There is a solenoid valve which feeds fuel from the gascolator into a fitting on the engine. You turn it on for a prescribed number of seconds, depending on the expected temperatures, just before shutting down the engine. The gas thins the oil and burns off after starting.
    N1PA

  36. #76
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    The warbirds I use to work on had the oil dilution. Don't think anyone uses them anymore.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  37. #77

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    My '75 180J had a factory oil dilution system installed when new. Frequent oil changes must have been more important.

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by beezerboy View Post
    as for oil dilution.... its old as the hills, 1930's at least. the old timers used it, the military too back when they still had piston engines. the oil sumps on radials have a hopper inside to allow fuel to circulate with a limited quantity of oil at shut down. that gives "loose" oil for the next start. then as the engine ran, the fuel would evaporate off, the warm oil thawing the cold oil. it was common on Beavers & Otters for sure. I know Continental made an oil dilution system for the big 6 cylinder engines, but I never worked on one. no reason it wouldn't work but finding the parts would be tough & I don't remember seeing anything for four cylinder engines ever.
    International Harvestor used to make Diesel tractors that had spark plugs and a separate gas and diesel tank. They started on gas and then the operator switched them over to diesel once running. There are many ways to skin a cat.
    Having said that , just because it used to be done, does not mean it is the best method. I am not so young to remember that it was thought that smoking was good for your health. It was also believed that one should not sail too far into the horizon or you would fall off the edge of the earth. It is possible that occasionally the old timers got it wrong.
    Just Sayin'

  39. #79
    zenairdave's Avatar
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    So far the 5W30 test is going well. Cold pressures are 45 psi from start up which is better than the 80 or more that I was getting with a cold(ish) engine. As hot as I can get the engine, (oil still under 140F, ) the pressure holds at 45 which is what W80 was holding at in the summer. Idle, warm, it holds at 30psi which is higher than the W80 held at idle in the summer when hot.
    My conclusion is aviation oil should be available in thinner viscosity than 15W50.

  40. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Kid View Post
    Use the aviation Multi-grade oil. An example would be Aeroshell 15W50 flows like a 15w oil when the engine is cold and protects like a 50w when the engine is up to operating temp. The Automotive oils do not handle the lead scavenging that the aircraft oils are designed to do.

    Since I run strictly 91 auto fuel in my 85hp, I should not have to worry about lead.

    Zenairdave: what oil specifically are you running? I really find it hard to justify $120+ for 12 pk av oil up here. I'm real tempted to try diesel oil like Rotela thinking it may lend itself better to flat tappet type engines as opposed to roller rockers & modern auto oil.
    Thought?

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