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Thread: TFR at Birchwood for search efforts

  1. #1

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    TFR at Birchwood for search efforts

    A TFR over Knik Arm west and north of Birchwood.

    http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_5_9653.html#areas


    More on the plane.
    http://www.ktuu.com/news/news/report...earch/34592452


    Hope the find him ok.

    72A

  2. #2
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    I walked a mile of shore line on the next tide see if anything washed up in grass north of airport since crash was on a 30+ foot tide and noons tide was only 27. Found a mud boot and a pair of jeans type shorts looked like mud boot was only one tides worth. Not sure if related. Pictures at end of album https://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewe...09273597580033

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    stewartb's Avatar
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    Now that the TFR is over, and the Alaska ANG has suspended their search, does anyone know anything of an organized private search? I would donate a couple of flights with my sons as spotters, but would like to coordinate it with other searches if possible. This is tough searching if my last experience is any indication. Everything is immediately covered with the lovely inlet mud and it all looks the same. We never did find the guy who fell in at the port and he might have had his brightly colored float coat on. The news stories give some family names but I am not into calling them and asking questions. Does anyone know who might be coordinating the private search? Alex.

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    stewartb's Avatar
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    More details emerge. I always wondered how 911 calls are routed for roaming cell phones.

    http://www.adn.com/article/20150811/...e-crash-emerge

  6. #6
    scout88305's Avatar
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    Really sad deal, Cook Inlet/Knik Arm not very friendly. Prayers to all involved

    “We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

  7. #7
    stewartb's Avatar
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    This may be a perfect example of where a GPS enabled 406 ELT may have been helpful. But perhaps they had no warning it was coming. I wonder if there was a radio mayday. I'd like to think I'd have been calling mayday on ANC or Lake Hood tower frequency given the opportunity.

    Prayers to the families.

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    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    This may be a perfect example of where a GPS enabled 406 ELT may have been helpful. But perhaps they had no warning it was coming. I wonder if there was a radio mayday. I'd like to think I'd have been calling mayday on ANC or Lake Hood tower frequency given the opportunity.

    Prayers to the families.
    Yes. Terrible deal in any case, but a 406 hit prior to touchdown with a GPS position may have helped searchers find them.

    Maybe.

    MTV

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    This sucks. I know the family x 20 yrs. My son graduated from Bethel H.S. with Seth...


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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Weird how the news photos show no damage to the prop blades or the cowling areas. According to the report most of the damage occurred while trying to pull it out of the water.

  12. #12
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Weird how the news photos show no damage to the prop blades or the cowling areas. According to the report most of the damage occurred while trying to pull it out of the water.
    wasn't running(prop blades would be bent forward for water landing, if running), he probably set down ok, heard they drained some gas from it when disassembling ....

  13. #13
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Ok, that makes more sense, and what I was thinking, bush used to not have "911" you had to know who to call...

    not a 911 tech issue, as the ADN had tried to elude to a few days ago.. still sad though...

    http://www.adn.com/article/20150813/...1-troopers-say

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Mike: Did the fish out the wreck up north of Birchwood by the sand-bars or further down in the wide open area of Knik arm?

    All this media ( and city folks) sniveling about response time is most irritating. This case had extremely fast response time. Many times faster than the national average.

  15. #15
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Ok, that makes more sense, and what I was thinking, bush used to not have "911" you had to know who to call...

    not a 911 tech issue, as the ADN had tried to elude to a few days ago.. still sad though...

    http://www.adn.com/article/20150813/...1-troopers-say
    I have RCC on speed dial on my own sat phone and sadly in this case I doubt it would have made any difference. Not many passer-by float planes out at midnight this time of year, either.

  16. #16
    barbwire's Avatar
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    So many questions on this accident? Such a sad accident and now two young men gone.

  17. #17
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Mike: Did the fish out the wreck up north of Birchwood by the sand-bars or further down in the wide open area of Knik arm?.
    less than 2 miles from airport

  18. #18
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    less than 2 miles from airport
    Dang,,,, sounds more and more like a flame-out after a 3 hour cross country. Power off glide into the water with minimal damage upon touch-down.

  19. #19
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Dang,,,, sounds more and more like a flame-out after a 3 hour cross country. Power off glide into the water with minimal damage upon touch-down.
    power on long steep decent, run out header tank on unported right tank(with some fuel in it)???(rear fuel outlet only, if original config)?? is all I can think of.....??

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    My daughter...Jamie spent yesterday with her friend Jamie who is Seth's on again off again girl friend. They spent the day with 3 others looking for Seth's body...started at Pt. Mackenzie working up the beach/mud flats. Seth's......Jamie is also a pilot...there is allot more to the story.. It's about choices and circumstances creating those choices. A few special folks....have come out of the wood work. Seth's dad Grant was paid a visit in Bethel by a medium... Not worth repeating what this person said.


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  21. #21
    aktango58's Avatar
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    A crash down this direction had the fancy 406, and they knew the location. Took 1.5 hours for the coast guard to get there, I think it is a 40 minute flight.

    There are the rare occasions where folks are rescued within minutes, one cherokee 6 in Skagway is an example, but that is the exception. In Skagway the pilot was about 1200' and lost the accessory gear and started calling for help on CTAF. The helicopters were on the pad unloading with blades turning and listening to CTAF. They hurried the passengers out and lifted off. They got on scene in minutes; one person still died if I recall.

    Delays are not good, but remember before cell phones, before RCO's, before gps when you had to have someone that really cared hold a flight plan?

    Sorry for the families and those left behind. Maybe we can all learn from this.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  22. #22
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    ...Sorry for the families and those left behind. Maybe we can all learn from this.
    This type of situation is always sad for all who are involved. Part of the discussion is to help the entire community to work through the emotions. The other part is for all to try to learn from the mistakes which happened. Place this knowledge in that remote corner of your brain for recall when you see yourself approaching a similar situation so that you can prevent yourself from repeating someone else's error.

    Lacking other information, Mike's analysis makes a lot of sense in this case. This does make for a strong argument in favor of having two outlets from the fuel tanks as well as a "both" position on the valve.

    A lesson to be learned assuming Mike's scenario, would be to level off periodically during long slow descents in order for the fuel to readjust itself.
    N1PA

  23. #23
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Lacking other information, Mike's analysis makes a lot of sense in this case. This does make for a strong argument in favor of having two outlets from the fuel tanks as well as a "both" position on the valve.

    A lesson to be learned assuming Mike's scenario, would be to level off periodically during long slow descents in order for the fuel to readjust itself.
    I only think this, after hearing from other mechanic years ago, talking of going ret older model cessna 180's with the single center fuel outlet, they still had ~10 gallons a side in tanks... we also had one last year by port alsworth? sounded the same deal...

  24. #24
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    This type of situation is always sad for all who are involved. Part of the discussion is to help the entire community to work through the emotions. The other part is for all to try to learn from the mistakes which happened. Place this knowledge in that remote corner of your brain for recall when you see yourself approaching a similar situation so that you can prevent yourself from repeating someone else's error.

    Lacking other information, Mike's analysis makes a lot of sense in this case. This does make for a strong argument in favor of having two outlets from the fuel tanks as well as a "both" position on the valve.

    A lesson to be learned assuming Mike's scenario, would be to level off periodically during long slow descents in order for the fuel to readjust itself.
    Sounds like something I should read every week!

    But I think it is a steep power on descent Mike was talking about.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  25. #25
    cubpilot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    power on long steep decent, run out header tank on unported right tank(with some fuel in it)???(rear fuel outlet only, if original config)?? is all I can think of.....??
    So this is sounding more plausible.
    In trying to adapt what we should learn from this is.... if you intend to run a tank dry, it better be the right side.
    Ed

  26. #26
    aktango58's Avatar
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    That is why some of the 180 hp STC's require left tank for take off and land, ports and header tank location.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  27. #27
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    That is why some of the 180 hp STC's require left tank for take off and land, ports and header tank location.
    I believe that ALL Super Cubs with a right hand tank originally only had an aft fuel pickup in that right tank. There is an admonition in at least some handbooks that the right tank is to be used for level flight only. A lot of pilots ignore that recommendation, but under some circumstances, it can bite you.

    MTV

  28. #28
    fancypants's Avatar
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    That has bitten me in similar circumstances, extended power-on descent over water. It is amazing how fast your left hand can move that selector valve and how quickly the engine starts making power again. Grateful to have learned that lesson and be able to talk about it.

  29. #29
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    passenger body found

    http://www.adn.com/article/20150907/...ka-plane-crash

    I found a sleeping bag a couple days ago, after a big Really High tide on Monday, but i deleted the # to text the info to, same general area I found the boot and shorts the next tide after the crash...

  30. #30

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    Andrew couldn't swim... Seth probably stayed with him....because of that inability


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