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takeoff dolly

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airwolf7ac

Registered User
Yellowknife
Does anyone have any pics of a dolly that can be used for taking off a grass runway with floats attached. The runway also has some small bumps. I attempted to take off on the grass with no luck and now need to construct a dolly or come up with another method. Any ideas? I have a pa11 with 90 hp and edo 1400.

Thanks

Kaleb
 
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Just a simple platform built on a lightweight trailer

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Bill
 
We've used a rope with a small loop on one end, looped over the back of a bow cleat, to tow with a pickup to help get you up to speed. Works great on everything from cubs to Beavers! We also had a couple trailer house axels that had some boards between them, but it got old fixing fence after you lift off. I've also had one customer build a pair of dolly's from wood with 4 small wheels on each. You can see them under the float in this pic..they worked fine and didn't travel so far once the plane lifted off.
 
Do you use two ropes centered to trailer hitch or just the one rope on a specific cleat? The cleats are strong enough and the rope doesn't snag or catch in the prop?
 
I used a sprayer behind a quad with soapy water and greased the floats with soap as well. It will slide with some help but will not accelerate. It's raining here today so the grass will be alot wetter and I could attempt again. It just didn't feel like it would work. The keels are digging into the grass pretty good, It may be to soft. I also attempted to tow it whike it was on a pice of plywood with Teflon on the bottom and it would go but when I hit a bump it falls off the plywood. I'm also concerned that if I use a dolly or trailer that it could bump as well and could damage something.
 
Paul Heinrich said:
How did you get the plane landlocked in the first place?
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I landed at my grass strip on wheels and put the floats on there because I have the ability to lift the plane and had help available. I still have the option of putting the aircraft back on wheels and flying to another airport and trailering the floats over and doing the changeover at an airport with trailer access to a lake. It's my first time trying to figure out the logistics. I heard that on wet grass I may be able to take off and it seemed a whole lot easier at the time. Regretting that decision now.
 
I know it seems counter intuitive, but the times I have departed from grass (higher horsepower aircraft) I had to start with the yoke full forward to relieve the pressure on the keels. Worked well, but your results may vary.......
 
Kaleb; There's a good article in the current issue of SPA magazine that discusses dolly takeoffs.
 
Both of my 90hp and 100hp float planes would not move on grass with out some frost. My very first float solo land and water takeoff and landing started and ended on a crunchy 900' runway with a lake takeoff and landing in the middle. Built a dolly after that, my short runway is bumpy so dolly had 2x10 V shaped bunks under each float to keep it from falling off dolly and a push bar in front of front spreader bar.

Glenn
 
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Installed need adj 014.jpgRevision 1 010.jpg This is how I solved that problem with my 11;-). I couldn't find my dolly pics will look again in the a.m.
 

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A thought, I haven't tried this with only 90 hp. I used to land 150 Citabrias and 150 PA-18s on thin wet grass at the end of the season. I flew them from the back seat in order to keep the CG aft since I was concerned about tipping forward. The planes would always come to a complete stop in not much more than one plane length, even when I went to full power trying to get closer to the hanger holding up elevator to hold the tail down. Then I got the bright idea of pushing the stick forward after almost coming to a stop. This rocked the floats forward just onto the curved section of the keel. Then I was able to "taxi" right up to the hangar door. Piece of cake.

Try this: Fly in the back seat. Start with full nose down stick. When on floats you will not be tipping on the prop since while accelerating the "gear" contact position on the ground will be moving forward leaving more weight aft. The elevator (too small) can not provide enough nose down lift to tip very far forward. Accelerate with nose down elevator keeping the floats on the narrow curved up "sweet spot" section of the keels. Then when you have enough speed rotate and fly away. "If" it stops accelerating when still below flying speed you "could try" lifting one float slightly. This would be a personal feel thing since I'm not familiar with your flying experience.

I've done some scary dolly take offs. Some not successful others very successful. When you think you have it figured out it bites you. The biggest one had two 300hp engines.
 
Please don't risk your life.

I know it's a hassle to pull the wings or the floats, but too many bad things could happen taking the shortcut. A dolly or grass takeoff might work, but the possible consequences of it not working could be devastating.

Safety first.
 
Hey guys. I appreciate all your input. I was able to use a trailer towed behind a pickup. I watched a few videos on YouTube and was able to identify the procedures used and spoke with some friends with experience taking off on trailers. I was able to get the trailer and plane onto a smooth gravel road with no bumps or obstructions. All went very smooth and was accomplished in an hour. Thanks again.20150503_113651.jpg20150505_095447.jpg20150505_075920.jpg
 

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You haven't lived till you've built a dolly and taken off on a 900' downhill strip with a ditch on both sides and striped your shorts at least twice. Everyone should experience the fun at least once. Nice job getting it done. Nothing sane about wanting to play on the water, but the rewards are worth it.

Glenn
 
Geez!, you folks are nuts! I have been shot at and luckily missed and that scares me!


:lol:

Eddie
 
airwolf7ac said:
Do you use two ropes centered to trailer hitch or just the one rope on a specific cleat? The cleats are strong enough and the rope doesn't snag or catch in the prop?
Click to expand...

We just used one rope off the front left cleat. Have a small loop in the end and loop that over the BACK of the cleat only and with the rope on the outside of the cleat...that way as soon as there's slack, it'll come right off. We've used this quite a few times and never had one even think of hanging up! (first time we did it, we had a guy in the back of the pickup with a sharp knife, ready to cut the rope, but never even came close to needing it!) Run the pickup (automatic transmission works best) down the left edge of the strip and the plane will line up on the right side of center... no problems whatsoever.
 
airwolf7ac said:
Hey guys. I appreciate all your input. I was able to use a trailer towed behind a pickup. I watched a few videos on YouTube and was able to identify the procedures used and spoke with some friends with experience taking off on trailers. I was able to get the trailer and plane onto a smooth gravel road with no bumps or obstructions. All went very smooth and was accomplished in an hour. Thanks again.View attachment 20056View attachment 20057View attachment 20058
Click to expand...

I see your tractor is the right color for this operation. Any other color would have broke down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Neat Dolly. I've added all the float attachment fittings to my piper. Looking for a set of EDO 2000's. This dolly would work well for me...if. Wonder what could be done to insure it would roll in a straight line...off the end of the runway? If I used a dolly like that....would need someone to pull it off the runway or out of the drainage ditch and perhaps pick up a runway light.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
If you want to get fancy.. a simple "mouse trap" style bar under the floats, so when you lift off it puts the brakes on... or a rub bar against a tire.
 
Keep in mind that a three wheeled dolly acts the same as a three wheeled airplane. An airplane with the third wheel on the nose wants to track straight ahead. An airplane with the third wheel on the tail wants to swap ends. The dolly reacts in the same way. You do not want the dolly to swap ends on take off roll! Just a piece of experience from one who has been there with a brand new set of floats.

Another thing is that you do not want your castering wheel to be able to shimmy. It can and will slow down or stop your acceleration.

And, as Mark has implied, the dolly can go most anywhere after liftoff.
 
The one I built had the little wheel in the front and I could taxi under control anywhere I wanted above 5mph. I set the dolly up so that I had a negative wing AOA so " I " could chose when I wanted to fly. I was told by those that had done it a lot to go faster then liftoff speed so it was an immeditate positive climb. Last thing you want is to be hovering just above the dolly. Had a friend who settled back down on the dolly and unknowingly tore a hole in his float and lifted back up and then flew off to land in the lake. A very big lake (139 miles ) and landed in the middle because it was calm. As he slowed down it started listing to one side, what he didn't know was the smaller tear had pealed back from the water pressure and opened up 2 compartments. With one wing almost touching the water he kept the engine firewalled and taxied over 2 miles at about 5 mph to shore. He was afraid if he stopped that it would flip over. Saved the plane but fried the engine. Did I mention how much fun floats are.

Glenn
 
My first flight with floats on the plane in my avitar was off of a dolly on an 1800 foot runway. The unknown made it rather scary, however it went very well.
 
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