Prop strike inspection AD2004-10-14

[mvivion]

All the airplanes I’ve seen under helicopters have been rigged to ride in level flight attitude.

The ones I've seen mostly did that all by themselves.

MTV

[Steve Pierce]

Too bad someone can't stick a prop on it and it magically appear back at the airport early one morning ready for the prop strike inspection.

[SJ]

FWIW......it's never a good idea to try to straighten the prop some by pulling on it with a pickup that's anchored by a tractor.

Funny, I saw pictures of just such an event the other day..but it was two pickups and the “driver” had a beer in his hand.

You must be thinking of ANOTHER time this happened?

sj

[hotrod180]

This was re a helo recovery:

.... My advice? Stand back and let them do what they’re hired to do.

IMHO that's great advice...
if you're talking about hoisting an A/C unit, logs, or shake bolts.
About airplanes...not so much.
I'm guessing most helo guys don't know **** about rigging & hoisting aircraft.
I think a lot of airplanes get damaged worse from improper recovery actions than the original crash--
remember that PBY that got broken in two when it was being recovered from the surf?

[RaisedByWolves]

If you're getting helo'd out as far as im concerned its the insurance companies airplane, start looking for a new one. And if it makes it to your home unscathed that's a bonus. Very likely with a 20k heli lift, engine teardown, 10k and then wing repair, nose bowl, borer prop and spinner, depending on how much coverage you have it's close to being totaled. Shooting from the hip, you're probably around 40-50k.

[RaisedByWolves]

Funny, I saw pictures of just such an event the other day..but it was two pickups and the “driver” had a beer in his hand.

You must be thinking of ANOTHER time this happened?

sj

Sounds like the good old days of supercub.org when I first remember

[Mikey]

Well, glad to report the cub flew out under its own power and is safely back in my hangar.
And it was done with a ferry permit and AD2004-10-14 was not required. Thanks to some
digging by my FSDO, they came across a SAIB issued out of a NE FAA office that allows issuance
of a SFP without AD compliance (see 2nd to last bullet point)
We did a through inspection including dialing the crank. All good. Bolted a borrowed Borer on
good run up and flew it out. Back in my hangar :30 later.

NE-06-32R1propstrike.pdf
Now I have a winter project. But I will get to fly MY plane again.
Mikey

[Rob]

Congratulations, on the return home, and for having the fortitude to stick it out, where most people throw in the towel in the face of challenge and adversity.

Take care, Rob

[mvivion]

Excellent outcome, and good for you for the research!

MTV

[Mikey]

I hope someone else can use that ammo w their FSDO.
Despite that guidance from the SAIB, issuing is still at the discretion of the FSDO.
IMHO, there are a lot of good people at the Agency and most of
those are frustrated by the regulatory handcuffs they are stuck with.
Building positive relationships can be the key to getting a positive outcome.
Mikey

[skywagon8a]

Do a close inspection of the webs between the lightning holes on the prop flange. I found 3 or 4 of them cracked during an annual inspection on a TriPacer. They just looked like a pencil line between the holes. I never learned what the cause was, though it could have been from a sudden stoppage.

[hotrod180]

Good job Chris!
I'm sure you breathed a big sigh of relief once the plane was back home.
Good luck with the repairs.

[dgapilot]

Our FSDO is saying AD 2004-10-14 must be complied with prior to flight, and that includes a ferry flight.
The hole purpose of a Special Flight Permit is to move an unairworthy aircraft that is reasonable fit for flight.
Does ANC FSDO have another interpretation of the AD applicability to a ferry flight?
I'm pulling my hair out over this as my airplane sits unsecured on a gravel bar......
Mikey

The FSDO is incorrect. The AD does not need to be complied with for a Ferry Flight.

Sec. 39.23
Amendment Number: 39-9474, Effective Date: 08/21/2002

TITLE: [May I fly my aircraft to a repair facility to do the work required by an airworthiness directive?]

SECTION RULE:
[Yes, the operations specifications giving some operators authority to operate include a provision that allow them to fly their aircraft to a repair facility to do the work required by an airworthiness directive. If you do not have this authority, the local Flight Standards District Office of FAA may issue you a special flight permit unless the airworthiness directive states otherwise. To ensure aviation safety, FAA may add special requirements for operating your aircraft to a place where the repairs or modifications can be accomplished. FAA may also decline to issue a special flight permit in particular cases if we determine you cannot move the aircraft safely.]

AD 2004-10-14 has no prohibition from ferrying an aircraft to a location where repairs may be completed. If it did, there would be a separate paragraph in the AD indicating that ferry flights for repair or maintenance were not authorized. The statement in the Compliance paragraph applies to making the aircraft Airworthy. A ferry flight is expressly for the purpose of operating an unairworthy aircraft.

[dgapilot]

The FSDO is incorrect in their interpretation. For all ADs issued prior to 8/21/2002 the default was a statement that the aircraft could be ferried for repairs and if the statement was not there it needed the AD to be complied with prior to operating. When Part 39 was rewritten in 2002 they did a 180 degree reversal. The AD now needs an explicit statement that it cannot be ferried. Since this AD was issued after 8/21/2002 and since the AD does not have an explicit statement prohibiting ferry flights a ferry permit could be issued to allow the operation of the aircraft to a place where it can be repaired or inspected.

[frequent_flyer]

The FSDO is incorrect in their interpretation. For all ADs issued prior to 8/21/2002 the default was a statement that the aircraft could be ferried for repairs and if the statement was not there it needed the AD to be complied with prior to operating. When Part 39 was rewritten in 2002 they did a 180 degree reversal. The AD now needs an explicit statement that it cannot be ferried. Since this AD was issued after 8/21/2002 and since the AD does not have an explicit statement prohibiting ferry flights a ferry permit could be issued to allow the operation of the aircraft to a place where it can be repaired or inspected.

I find it hard to reconcile that with AD 2023-04-08 which states -

"(k) Special Flight Permit
Special flight permits may be issued in accordance with 14 CFR 21.197 and 21.199 to only permit a one-time, non-revenue ferry flight to operate the aircraft to a location where the maintenance actions can be performed, provided that the engine first undergoes, or has undergone within the previous five flight hours, an oil change and filter/screen replacement that was accomplished by an appropriately rated mechanic or repair station, and any material found in the spent oil and oil filter pleats or oil screen has been evaluated to assess the engine’s condition."

If, by default, a special flight permit can be issued with an outstanding AD, why wouldn't the text of AD 2023-04-08 read "A special flight permit may not be issued unless ......"?

[Mikey]

All I know is in the end I did get a Special Flight Permit w/out prior compliance with AD 2004-10-14 and my -12 is home safe in the hangar.
Mikey

[hotrod180]

All I know is in the end I did get a Special Flight Permit w/out prior compliance with AD 2004-10-14 and my -12 is home safe in the hangar.
Mikey

I'm curious who you worked with at the FSDO?
In m y experience, our most recent PMI was not responsive or very helpful--
esp compared to the one before that, who was awesome.
I guess you don't realize how good something is til you don't have it any more.
The most recent one passed away not long ago, I don't even know who we've got now (if anyone).

[Steve Pierce]

Charlie Center just called and emailed me the FAA Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin NE-06-32R1 dated Sept 10,2008. He was hopping to help but was a little late to the party I guess. It was good to catch up with him none the less.

[dgapilot]

I find it hard to reconcile that with AD 2023-04-08 which states -

"(k) Special Flight Permit
Special flight permits may be issued in accordance with 14 CFR 21.197 and 21.199 to only permit a one-time, non-revenue ferry flight to operate the aircraft to a location where the maintenance actions can be performed, provided that the engine first undergoes, or has undergone within the previous five flight hours, an oil change and filter/screen replacement that was accomplished by an appropriately rated mechanic or repair station, and any material found in the spent oil and oil filter pleats or oil screen has been evaluated to assess the engine’s condition."

If, by default, a special flight permit can be issued with an outstanding AD, why wouldn't the text of AD 2023-04-08 read "A special flight permit may not be issued unless ......"?

Likely because there are inspection requirements identified for the SFP issuance. By the way, that AD has been superseded by 2023-05-16. As for SFPs for aircraft with Lycoming prop strikes and AD2004-10-14, I've issued many SFPs just to move the aircraft where the AD can be complied with. Part 39 is very cl=ear on what words need to be in the AD to prohibit a ferry permit.