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Thread: Cessna 180 Tailwheel Possibilities

  1. #41
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    From AA: The other issue is that the 404 tire is an option but not necessarily a recommended one due to its tendency to chafe and split tubes. That is one reason we created the 1154.R Baby Bushwheel with the protected air bladder - it's that the 404 tubes are relatively thin and have a tendency to split under the stresses of use in a tailwheel.

    I wonder if an extra helping of tire talc (aka baby powder) would help with the chafing issue when using 400x4's.

    From Stewart: "My AeroClassics "glider tires" were good for a year each. I got tired of replacing them and switched to a baby bushwheel tire. I don't think the little tire likes being splayed open by that big spacer."

    If the rim being too wide is an issue, for experimental use you could turn the wheel spacer down shorter, use shorter through bolts, and longer axle spacers.
    I've seen 29" tires on 10" Gar adapters and the sidewall on those looks to be pretty splayed out,
    but I've never heard anyone say that it's a problem.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  2. #42
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    I just looked at my AeroClassic 4/04 while arranging the shop.

    boy am I displeased. Checked and splitting near the bead area. The sidewalls are still shiny and newish looking. Not as bad as Stewarts photo. But not good!!

    EDIT:actually, it was installed in October and has about 15 hours on it!! Was on the airplane since then Oct (4 to 5 months) until I changed to wheel skis. Was tied outside in Alaska winterland!!


    10 years ago the "glider rib" tire of choice was a Cheng Shin. Yep, most of 'em lasted til the rib/tread was worn off, as I recall on the GarAero wide forks we all used to run!!!!!!!

    Maybe the AeroClassicic 404 is spec'd by AirframesInc/AkBushwheels as an alternative to the BabyBush so guys will upgrade to the BabyBush when they experience the AeroClassic junk!

    now what was that address to get a Chinese ChengShin tire????
    Last edited by Dave Calkins; 03-31-2017 at 03:38 PM.

  3. #43

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    Dang, maybe it's a good thing I paid extra for the BBW.... Since the 4.00x4 is a standard sailplane tire for many popular types, you might try the Tost brand, sold in the U.S. by Wings and Wheels, viz:

    http://wingsandwheels.com/aircraft-p...aero-8-pr.html .

    Continental used to also make this size. To Dave Calkins' comment, I'd bet that an industrial tyre source might have the Cheng Shin, or something similar, e.g., for two-wheel dollies, mowers and such.

    Thanks. cubscout
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  4. #44

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    Whose tire is AK Tundra Tires using with their wide fork? When I did use the rib tire I bought my tubes from Seaplanes North. Theirs worked way better but that had to do with the filler valve. I never had a tube problem other than installing the one Airframes sold.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    I just looked at my AeroClassic 4/04 while arranging the shop.

    boy am I displeased. Checked and splitting near the bead area. The sidewalls are still shiny and newish looking. Not as bad as Stewarts photo. But not good!!

    EDIT:actually, it was installed in October and has about 15 hours on it!! Was on the airplane since then Oct (4 to 5 months) until I changed to wheel skis. Was tied outside in Alaska winterland!!


    10 years ago the "glider rib" tire of choice was a Cheng Shin. Yep, most of 'em lasted til the rib/tread was worn off, as I recall on the GarAero wide forks we all used to run!!!!!!!

    Maybe the AeroClassicic 404 is spec'd by AirframesInc/AkBushwheels as an alternative to the BabyBush so guys will upgrade to the BabyBush when they experience the AeroClassic junk!

    now what was that address to get a Chinese ChengShin tire????
    Anyone find a more durable alternative to the AeroClassic 404?

  6. #46
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Desser representative at the Fedex Tradeshow 1.5 weeks ago said that was a bad batch of Aero Classic 400-4s

    He is doing something about it he said. Embarrassing. But he said he is acting on this.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    I just looked at my AeroClassic 4/04 while arranging the shop.

    boy am I displeased. Checked and splitting near the bead area. The sidewalls are still shiny and newish looking. Not as bad as Stewarts photo. But not good!!

    EDIT:actually, it was installed in October and has about 15 hours on it!! Was on the airplane since then Oct (4 to 5 months) until I changed to wheel skis. Was tied outside in Alaska winterland!!


    10 years ago the "glider rib" tire of choice was a Cheng Shin. Yep, most of 'em lasted til the rib/tread was worn off, as I recall on the GarAero wide forks we all used to run!!!!!!!

    Maybe the AeroClassicic 404 is spec'd by AirframesInc/AkBushwheels as an alternative to the BabyBush so guys will upgrade to the BabyBush when they experience the AeroClassic junk!

    now what was that address to get a Chinese ChengShin tire????
    http://www.lawnmowertirestore.com/40...6-ply-rib.html

  8. #48
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    As for 180 tailwheels, I have used all the ones mentioned. Stewart basically summed it up, can't add much. Use the one that fits your mission and/or budget best.

    Standard 8in works great for most strips, esp with smaller tires. It does get banged up on the rough strips and sinks in the soft.

    10in is a small improvement and a bit more robust, good for any strips and most off airport.

    Wide BB or gar-aero tailwheel good compromise for moderate off-airport, little more prone to shimmy and wear but will keep rolling resistance down, allowing you to preserve your prop.

    The big 14in XP, like any extreme has major compromises. It will shimmy badly - but ONLY if not properly set up and maintained (though admittedly its a bit of black magic to get them set up correctly sometime.) It also slows you down the most in the air and is the most expensive. But for serious working off-airport it is hands down the best! Very tough and the rolling resistance is MUCH reduced in serious soft. Even though its not wider than the BB, the extra height really helps. For rough stuff, well the tailwheel is tough but does transfer more energy to the airframe I think. That can be mitigated to an extent by pilot technique, ie keeping the tail up when you can.

    Personally, I use a 14in XP in the summer with bushwheels, change to an 8in stock with 8.00s or 8.50s in the winter, and add a tailski if working soft snow.
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  9. #49

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    I've got a 14xp on the back of my 180 and have never had any thing else. I'm wondering if anyone has real figures on how much airspeed you lose compared to 8 & 10 inch rear tail wheels. 850 x 6 mains if that makes any difference. TIA

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    No real numbers specific to the tailwheel in my memory bank but I do remember when I changed from a 3400-8" to the XP 14" the speed decrease was surprising. Switching back and forth from 850s/26" Goodyears/29" Bushwheels made less difference. In winter I used to change from 29s and the XP back to 850s and the 8" anticipating skis and I always enjoyed the higher airspeed and improved ground handling, which I attributed mostly to the tailwheel. The difference between 850s and the 8" combo versus 29s and the XP at high power level cruise was around 30 mph.
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  11. #51
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Might work fine but look at the quality. Had a customer destroy two 400x4 tubes from Tractor Supply, split at the seams.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    No real numbers specific to the tailwheel in my memory bank but I do remember when I changed from a 3400-8" to the XP 14" the speed decrease was surprising. Switching back and forth from 850s/26" Goodyears/29" Bushwheels made less difference. In winter I used to change from 29s and the XP back to 850s and the 8" anticipating skis and I always enjoyed the higher airspeed and improved ground handling, which I attributed mostly to the tailwheel. The difference between 850s and the 8" combo versus 29s and the XP at high power level cruise was around 30 mph.
    Wow that would be attributing at least 15mph to the XP tailwheel in my experience. I just put the BBW on my 180 running 29 BW. Will be interesting to see what my speed penalty is moving from 6" tw. I did remove the coffee can sized beacon so hoping no speed loss.
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  13. #53
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    I thought it was called the "mayonaise jar" beacon

  14. #54

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    Just heard the BBW is 10% off right now when you mention BCP website. Info is on that site. Hope this helps someone...unfortunately I was a month early.

  15. #55
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    One complaint I had with the 14" XP on my 185 was the increase in steering effort. It was very noticeable on out grass strip. Switching to a 10" Alaska Airframes one made a big difference.
    T

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom3holer View Post
    One complaint I had with the 14" XP on my 185 was the increase in steering effort. It was very noticeable on out grass strip. Switching to a 10" Alaska Airframes one made a big difference.
    T

    Tom,
    How much difference in shimmy on tarmac/paved runways between the 14" and 10" ?
    Thanks,
    John

  17. #57
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    I thought it was called the "mayonaise jar" beacon

    "Jelly jar"
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    "Jelly jar"
    I still like 'coffee grinder'. Always makes me smile when I hear one being powered up.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    I still like 'coffee grinder'. Always makes me smile when I hear one being powered up.

    Web
    I saved the one from the Cub rebuild to use as a hanger door going up alarm. Amoung various other instances, Pierce thought I was nuts for wanting it... Now if I could just find a WWII Submarine Dive alarm I'll have down covered!
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  20. #60
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Lol. I always wanted one of those hand crank air raid alarms.

    Web
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  21. #61

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    Name:  DSCN3442_sm.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    Desser representative at the Fedex Tradeshow 1.5 weeks ago said that was a bad batch of Aero Classic 400-4s

    He is doing something about it he said. Embarrassing. But he said he is acting on this.
    Name:  DSCN3439_sm.jpg
Views: 363
Size:  673.6 KB



    There are posts on this site from 2014 that talk about Aero Classic tires that cracked in less than a year. I installed a new Aero Classic 6 ply 10x3.5-4 tire on my Seabee in mid December 2016. In April 2017 I noticed the sidewalls were cracked. It had only been taxied a few minutes since December because the plane is not in annual. Last week I saw that it is also cracked and split open in the tread grooves all the way around the entire circumference. Completely unairworthy. The Aero Classic 10 inch tires are junk.

  22. #62
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    SeaBee. Welcome to the website

  23. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    SeaBee. Welcome to the website
    Thanks.
    Having a hard time finding a high load 10x4 tire for the Seabee. It has 500+ lbs on it when empty. I thought the 6 ply Aero Classic would be the answer, but it looks like they fall apart shortly after you put air in them.

  24. #64

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    I wonder what the outcome of the Aero Classic 404 tire “debacle” was, after the factory rep promised action on durability issues...
    I am still deciding on a tailwheel for frequent Idaho strips and Alaska off airport ops next summer. The glider tire tw setup seemed about right for me, but not with the checking/cracking tires!

  25. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabee View Post
    Thanks.
    Having a hard time finding a high load 10x4 tire for the Seabee. It has 500+ lbs on it when empty. I thought the 6 ply Aero Classic would be the answer, but it looks like they fall apart shortly after you put air in them.
    There is no requirement for a Tailwheel tire to be TSO, in fact there is no TSO for Tailwheel tired. I just saw some 8 ply 10x3.50x4 tires on eBay for about $35.


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  26. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabee View Post
    Thanks.
    Having a hard time finding a high load 10x4 tire for the Seabee. It has 500+ lbs on it when empty. I thought the 6 ply Aero Classic would be the answer, but it looks like they fall apart shortly after you put air in them.
    I used this adapter for my Seabee tail wheel and mounted a heavy duty channel tire, worked very well. Mine was also 500lbs empty. http://www.russaircraft.com/adapter.htm

  27. #67
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    What's a "channel tire"?
    Photo, specs, and/or link please.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  28. #68

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    This one is from Spruce, I think available at Desser maybe a better price?

    AERO CLASSIC 10.00 SC 8 PLY CHANNEL TREAD AIRCRAFT TIRE

    (Click image for a larger view)


    In Stock







    () review this


    Part # 06-02958
    Quantity:
    $253.95/ea







  29. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by BTV View Post
    Wow that would be attributing at least 15mph to the XP tailwheel in my experience. I just put the BBW on my 180 running 29 BW. Will be interesting to see what my speed penalty is moving from 6" tw. I did remove the coffee can sized beacon so hoping no speed loss.
    BTV,
    Did you ever figure out how much the 29's and BBW tailwheel cost you in speed penalty? I'm getting ready to put the same config on our 180.
    J

  30. #70

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    There is an STC to use adapter rings and a commercial 10x3.50x4 tire and tube. About a $27 tire vs the $253 tire. The STC was RRRus Aircraft I think. That’s what I had on the Howard


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  31. #71
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    On my 185 at 23.5 square I see about 115-120 kits IAS with the 29" and big T/W. I usually fly around 2500'- 3500'.

  32. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    On my 185 at 23.5 square I see about 115-120 kits IAS with the 29" and big T/W. I usually fly around 2500'- 3500'.
    With the Aerocet cargo pod, 8.50 mains and stock tailwheel, I typically see 128-129kts., 23”, 2350rpm at 4K’. I imagine that I will lose another 10-12kts with the 29’s and BBW tailwheel. That’s with an MT 2-blade prop.
    The cargo pod robbed 2-3 kts., but gives back a lot in utility.
    Ugh. That’s going to make for long 2x/yr flights from Maine to Anchorage...
    Mayhaps the PPonk will help a little. 60-70 more horses.

  33. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyR View Post
    BTV,
    Did you ever figure out how much the 29's and BBW tailwheel cost you in speed penalty? I'm getting ready to put the same config on our 180.
    J
    At least 17 mph, probably closer to 20. When flying up high in Colorado the penalty seems to be less than down low. I trued 140 mph on big tires and am now back on 8.50 dessers and 10" tw doing 160.
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  34. #74
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    On my 185 at 23.5 square I see about 115-120 kits IAS with the 29" and big T/W. I usually fly around 2500'- 3500'.
    Yikes, that's as much drag as a set of big floats.
    N1PA

  35. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyR View Post
    With the Aerocet cargo pod, 8.50 mains and stock tailwheel, I typically see 128-129kts., 23”, 2350rpm at 4K’. I imagine that I will lose another 10-12kts with the 29’s and BBW tailwheel. That’s with an MT 2-blade prop.
    The cargo pod robbed 2-3 kts., but gives back a lot in utility.
    Ugh. That’s going to make for long 2x/yr flights from Maine to Anchorage...
    Mayhaps the PPonk will help a little. 60-70 more horses.
    The trip to PANC and back is part of the fun for me.. I’ve done it lots of times, including 3 times in my Cub from New Hampshire. Doing it again this July with a friend in another Cub and we’re planning on taking our time to see what we can see....
    Mark
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  36. #76
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Done the trip up from Alb to anc three times , pa20, 180& 185. Now looking at bring a Husky down from ANC this Sept or Oct and don't look forward to it. Just too long for me.

  37. #77

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    Maybe I’ll run into you (figuratively). I’ll be in Homer the whole month of August.. sorry for the thread drift..
    Mark

  38. #78
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Give me a yell when you get up I'll meet you for coffee.
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  39. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    Maybe I’ll run into you (figuratively). I’ll be in Homer the whole month of August.. sorry for the thread drift..
    I’ll be bouncing around the state for most of August as well...
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