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ABW how is that snow? Hope to warn someone about this. Save the next guy.

Colorguns

Colorguns

PATRON
Bloomfield NY
Posting by the suggestion of another pilot that was at Crow on skies and heard some bitching that "I could make it here why go to 6B6".

Well I have done it! OOOHHHH crap now what?
I landed on a snowmobile trail that had exposed ground, all good and then I got off the edge with the wheels, about half way on the roll out. The snow was about 8" deep, you might think that is no problem for 31" ABW tires, NO it was not.

As you can see the results were not good and now the rebuild is on. I have landed in much deeper powder and NON-Marble snow with no issues but the "marble" soft stuff from the warm day did me in, got off to the side and it just PULLED me in, (just like the slush on the road that pulls your car into the ditch) you say I can just add power and mussel out. It went so fast there was not time to do a thing, from the distance I hit the edge to stopped was 50 ft.

So you out there that were bitching about Crow Island and the SKIES only by Bill, be warned that getting just a little bit off course can have really BAD results.


Snow looks to be 4" but was 8" and STICKY.
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I guess the only good out of that... your free hat will be on it's way shortly! Other than that it sucks all around.

Could never figure out the idea of landing in the snow on tires no matter how big they are... unless you've gone out and walked it yourself before hand, but again I guess when you live where I do there's a definite wheel to ski transition time... November!
 
Recovery was easy. tied a rope to the tail wheel and pulled it to the engine with an Argo on tracks, had a roped tied to the frame handle at tail and wrapped that to a post in the ground. Pulled it till past vertical and it came over on the wheels. Then had to pull hard on the Argo rope to get it over to set on the tail. Once on its wheels towed it out to the road and into a parking lot.
 
Really sorry to see that Doug, what a beautiful airplane......... hope your ok, And nothing bruised but some pride........ doesnt look that extensive, lets hope its back in the air real soon!
 
Earl
The adjuster comes Thursday and then to the shop. Engine tear down, prop, left wing, struts, rudder, boot cowl where the cowl pushed back a little (bottom edges), see no frame damage at this time. see what they find when down.
Doug


Be watching the transitions more carefully next time, now that I am educated! This might teach some one else and save them too. Only hope.
 
Oh boy, well all that aint happening in 5 mins........... like you said these things happen so dam fast, there isnt much you can do sometimes......On the light side, this is what we used to call a "wheels up" landing, in the Guiding ferternaty. Flying big tires in rough tundra, this stuff happened allThe time......... in this case it was just getting off into bad snow.........I am sure your darn upset tonite, but main thing is you didnt get hurt, andThe plane can be repaired, things will look different tomorrow....... againSorry for the bad luck today.E
 
A friend snow plowed my strip so I could fly over to his strip on wheels, and do some repairs in his heated hangar. Having been on amphibs for a couple years, seems I'd forgotten what my right foot was for. Immediate left into the slushy windrow which held a unique drag penalty, to almost powering out of it, to pulling power, to almost going over, to chattering to a sideways stop. It happens fast. I was fortunate. There is a video somewhere, I'll see if my buddy still has it on his phone. Sorry for your incident, but glad you are OK. Thanks for posting.
 
Doug that broke my heart when you texted me that photo this morning. I've been there twice and it just sucks. Takes a big man to post those pictures to maybe help someone else not do the same thing. Hope some of the contacts I gave you get you back flying soon.

Glenn
 
I feel for you. I did a 180 last Saturday on pavement when I romped on the brakes trying to make a turnoff. Luckily it was at a slow speed and only my pride was bruised. All part of membership in the taildragger fraternity.

Eddie
 
Colorguns said:
Posting by the suggestion of another pilot that was at Crow on skies and heard some bitching that "I could make it here why go to 6B6".

Well I have done it! OOOHHHH crap now what?
I landed on a snowmobile trail that had exposed ground, all good and then I got off the edge with the wheels, about half way on the roll out. The snow was about 8" deep, you might think that is no problem for 31" ABW tires, NO it was not....
Click to expand...


why mention ABW, when it was a lapse of your judgement, with predictable/guaranteed and repeatable results???
 
Thank you for posting this Doug. As someone said, it takes a real man to share his lesson with the rest of us. Best wishes on a speedy repair!
 
mike mcs repair said:
why mention ABW, when it was a lapse of your judgement, with predictable/guaranteed and repeatable results???
Click to expand...

Yup, and you never stubbed your toe getting out of bed in the dark. Mike I agree with what your saying, not the ABW fault. BUT, we get away with murder on BWs. Drop it in from 3' no problem, BWs saved your ars. Land in 2' of hay, BWs save us from smaller tires being wrapped with hay and going over.... yada....yada....yada. Doug knows he screwed up and he's paying the price of admission. Fact is BWs make you think your invincible on any surface. He's not blaming BWs to get a new flip/flop hat. He's telling you that " warning " your balls might be bigger then your tires.

Glenn
 
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NOT an ABW tire fault. Any big tire! Just hope to make people think about their landing areas. If I thought it was a bad idea then why would I land there? But I thought it was and I paid the price. Hope to get others to learn from it.
Cant walk EVERY landing spot before you land. I've heard a lot of stories from other pilots maybe I can maybe save just one from this post. Just hoping!

SUCKS :(


Mike
I wonder how many repair shops depend on pilots doing the stupid "obvious" mistakes?
 
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Doug,
Thanks for posting this. You're not new to the whole off airport thing and probably not the highest time/most experienced pilot to end up hanging in the shoulder harnesses because your landing ended up a bit shorter than you planned. If nothing else it's a good reminder to us all and might keep one of us from doing the same thing. Hope you get back in the air soon!
 
Doug sorry to see that.I learned my wheels and snow lesson several years ago.Did not wreck but the amount of drag I encountered in not real deep snow (sticky) set off warning bells and I decided right then that snow and wheels don't mix.
I have seen guys get all cocky because they managed to take-off and land in nice fluffy powder.Wait til they leave in powder and come back several hours later after the sun has turned it to glue.:cry:
Bill
 
willyb said:
Doug sorry to see that.I learned my wheels and snow lesson several years ago.Did not wreck but the amount of drag I encountered in not real deep snow (sticky) set off warning bells and I decided right then that snow and wheels don't mix.
I have seen guys get all cocky because they managed to take-off and land in nice fluffy powder.Wait til they leave in powder and come back several hours later after the sun has turned it to glue.:cry:
Bill
Click to expand...

Hey Willy,
Same thing happened to me earlier this year.
tried 7" inches of semi soft new snow. wont do that again.
Good thing for wind over the elevator.
I was ready for it and it still tested us .
Good Luck Colorguns , cant wait to fly with you this summer. :smile:
 
Good post, wish more of the folks who have "been there" would post and help others learn vicariously. I have sent out over 200 of the infamous "hats", so I know there are a few more posts that can be made.

sj
 
It takes a man to post that. Thank you very much for posting, it really makes me think...

I was about to put the plane on wheels, but now I'll wait till the snow is all gone.



Went flying yesterday on ski. That ''marble'' snow really stick
 
SJ said:
Good post, wish more of the folks who have "been there" would post and help others learn vicariously. I have sent out over 200 of the infamous "hats", so I know there are a few more posts that can be made.

sj
Click to expand...

Off the top of my head, I can think of a couple threads on this site in which someone asked the question "How much snow can my plane handle with large tires?". Multiple answers from folks with experience repeatedly state that you simply cannot reliably predict how much snow you can land in on wheels. It simply and totally depends on the consistency of the snow.

Just the other day, I visited a shop where a Carbon Cub resides now, after doing exactly this same thing....landing in snow on big tires.

What does it take to get this message through? Will this thread penetrate a few thick skulls? Hopefully, but these discussions sure don't seem to have gotten the word out to date.

I suppose it's only a matter of time before someone does one of these, then sues ABW for making tires that can land "anywhere".

Big tires are not a panacea, and snow is a good place for skis.....

MTV
 
SJ said:
Good post, wish more of the folks who have "been there" would post and help others learn vicariously. I have sent out over 200 of the infamous "hats", so I know there are a few more posts that can be made.

sj
Click to expand...
Haven't heard any complaints about the size of this "special" hat. Melon heads must have fewer incidents.
 
Thanks for posting. We really do get away with a lot and unless you have screwed up a few times you tend to have no fear. Same issue if trying to land federal hydraulic wheel skis on gravel bar if you drag a tip it can come up on it nose:oops: Most of that stuff should buff out pretty easy. Check the motor mount in a jig it is easy to bend and not see the defect. When the jugs are off now is a good time to put in new exhaust valve guides. Depending on the insurance company they will pay for rebuild/repair, you run a separate tab for mods/upgrades. Everybody wins.
DENNY
 
Sorry for your loss colorgun, and i agree 100% with you MTV the big tire are awsome but the center of the axle are much higher than normal so if what your rolling on get sticky its easyer to nose-over and if you need to have wheel in winter wheel-skis are for you
 
Thanks for posting this. I do know how hard you are on yourself right now and commend you for sharing.

Also while flying skis, Flat light, a week bungee and a stupid moment laps in judgment will also ruin your day really fast. :oops: But that is a story for another time.

Glad you are ok and the plane will be repaired everything else is just a thing!!

Larry
 
Oh Ouch Doug; sorry to see this. Don't beat yourself up too much 78H has done this before. I can't think of many mod's the plane didn't have but now is the time to start planning. Skylight perhaps and removing the diagonal bar in the baggage and putting in the pa-14 cathedral, Atlee just got an STC approved for that one. Sorry again..doug
 
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