Fowler flaps on a cub wing?
- Thread starter eskimo77
- Start date
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
You now have a nice big flap. What are you planning to do about the aileron requirement? There doesn't appear to be very much room left for an aileron.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
the day and night pa-12 long flap stc uses a cub aileron for a flap, then squares wing & moves out the aileron, a cuts some off of both ends of aileron... for size comparison...
It is also (supposed to be..)limited to 40 degrees..
Ailerons to match
Denny, I haven't tossed any original ribs, but they are all pretty rough. I'll see if I need any of them and if not I'll pass them along to someone else. As for my wings. I will be running 17 foot spars with a squared off tip, the flap starts approximately 5" from the side of the fuselage and is 141" long, that leaves about 58" of wing remaining for the aileron. My plan is to use a shortened Cessna 150 flap as a frise style aileron, it has a 19.5 chord x 58" span, giving me 1131 in^2 of aileron surface. A standard cub aileron is 102" long with a chord of 13.5" for an area of 1377 in^2. The difference in area will be compensated for by my aileron being further out on the wing and thereby providing more leverage/force. The center of the stock cub aileron is 119" from the side of the fuselage, the center of mine is 174". A little rough math shows that my aileron should have about 1.2 times the leverage of a stock cub aileron. This is very rough physics, I'm not going to figure it out to the Nth degree, sorry that just isn't how I work. By my measurements my set up should actually have slightly more force than a Cessna 206 (which has very good aileron control), just considering aileron area and position on the span. The wing/aileron pics are of a 206 frise style aileron. To transform the 150 flap to an aileron it will have the forward flap track arm trimmed off and a pivot location aft of the leading edge will be drilled (conveniently there is already a rivet right where the pivot hole will be, drill it out and insert a bolt.) I will be making my own aileron hangers, similar to my flap hanger design to encompass the rear spar, not sure it the aileron force will need to be passed forward to the front spar like with the flaps, I'll look more at that as the project progresses. Thanks for the interest and comments. Joel
Denny, I haven't tossed any original ribs, but they are all pretty rough. I'll see if I need any of them and if not I'll pass them along to someone else. As for my wings. I will be running 17 foot spars with a squared off tip, the flap starts approximately 5" from the side of the fuselage and is 141" long, that leaves about 58" of wing remaining for the aileron. My plan is to use a shortened Cessna 150 flap as a frise style aileron, it has a 19.5 chord x 58" span, giving me 1131 in^2 of aileron surface. A standard cub aileron is 102" long with a chord of 13.5" for an area of 1377 in^2. The difference in area will be compensated for by my aileron being further out on the wing and thereby providing more leverage/force. The center of the stock cub aileron is 119" from the side of the fuselage, the center of mine is 174". A little rough math shows that my aileron should have about 1.2 times the leverage of a stock cub aileron. This is very rough physics, I'm not going to figure it out to the Nth degree, sorry that just isn't how I work. By my measurements my set up should actually have slightly more force than a Cessna 206 (which has very good aileron control), just considering aileron area and position on the span. The wing/aileron pics are of a 206 frise style aileron. To transform the 150 flap to an aileron it will have the forward flap track arm trimmed off and a pivot location aft of the leading edge will be drilled (conveniently there is already a rivet right where the pivot hole will be, drill it out and insert a bolt.) I will be making my own aileron hangers, similar to my flap hanger design to encompass the rear spar, not sure it the aileron force will need to be passed forward to the front spar like with the flaps, I'll look more at that as the project progresses. Thanks for the interest and comments. Joel
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Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
Denny... If the ribs you see, only one or two are original Piper.... Most of them are made up out of a small T extrusion...
Brian
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Notice that the 206 wing has a rib directly in line with each aileron hinge. These ribs transfer the twisting loads on the rear spar forward to the front spar. You do not want twisting loads on the spar. By using the front spar, through the rib, to prevent the twist you are changing the twist load to a shear load. A spar is weakened when twisted. By allowing a twist load you can/will cause stresses which could cause loosening of fasteners and/or cracking over time. An aileron does apply twisting loads on the outboard section of a wing.
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Was that the Darringer?
I remember you posting pics but don't recall if it had T-Craft wings or just what.
Re fowler flaps, there was a pretty cool airplane posted about a while back,
the Badlands Traveler-- a Supercub with C152 wings.
Super Cub on Steroids! - YouTube
Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
Hotrod,
Yes that is the Darringer... Hasn't been flown in many years now... He did build it with 3 piece Taylorcraft airfoil ribs and canted the nose piece down a little for a bit of a leading edge cuff.
Brian.
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
A guy at my airport has an old set of C150 wings stashed behind his hangar--
I think about that Badlands Traveller every time I see them.....
Utah-Jay
MEMBER
Heber City, UT
Hey, my ears were burning!
Perhaps thread drift here but I’m currently waiting on an faa inspection for the 4th “badlands traveler”
with a Sportsman stol kit, the 150 wing really performs better than it should.
that being said, I’m designing my own wing for future airplanes, but the fuselages will still accept a c-150 or 172 wing.
A “new” constant chord airfoil with sportsman profile built in.
8’4” of flaps. 6’ deep chord ailerons.
RANS style truss to tie the spars together and move strut attach to 25%
23 gallon wing tanks.
carlson cub style spars that are taller and stronger than piper.
fingers crossed, hoping to complete the next airplane with these wings by summer.
Perhaps thread drift here but I’m currently waiting on an faa inspection for the 4th “badlands traveler”
with a Sportsman stol kit, the 150 wing really performs better than it should.
that being said, I’m designing my own wing for future airplanes, but the fuselages will still accept a c-150 or 172 wing.
A “new” constant chord airfoil with sportsman profile built in.
8’4” of flaps. 6’ deep chord ailerons.
RANS style truss to tie the spars together and move strut attach to 25%
23 gallon wing tanks.
carlson cub style spars that are taller and stronger than piper.
fingers crossed, hoping to complete the next airplane with these wings by summer.
Attachments
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
I believe the owner said on the video his first Badlands Traveller with C150 wings took off a bit shorter than the one with 172 wings.
Difference in takeoff weight maybe?
I could see the bigger wings (another 25 or so sq feet) might be better for a heavier airplane,
but I'd think the shorter winged airplane would handle quicker.
That's the route I would go.
Difference in takeoff weight maybe?
I could see the bigger wings (another 25 or so sq feet) might be better for a heavier airplane,
but I'd think the shorter winged airplane would handle quicker.
That's the route I would go.
