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Thread: Chris & D.A.'s/Denny's Super Cub

  1. #41
    Marty57's Avatar
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    Regarding flight instruction in a EAB, there are no restrictions other than charging for the aircraft itself. A CFI can instruct (and charge) in an EAB for their time only. Primary training can even be done in an EAB. When it comes to the practical test a Designated Flight Examiner can wave the requirement for a standard category aircraft and test in an EAB. Check out this link from the EAA; pretty clear there are a lot more options than most pilots realize.

    https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...built-aircraft

    Marty57
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  2. #42
    DW's Avatar
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    The local FISDO here said they will not allow the use of a experimental aircraft for any of their check rides 709s or anything else it may be true that they can waive this but try to find one that will...yes your local CFI can certainly instructed in a experimental.

  3. #43
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Yes, I mis stated the point earlier. So, if you are a CFI, you can offer flight instruction in an experimental airplane, and be compensated for YOUR time. You cannot charge for the aircraft, not even for fuel. Or, you can RECEIVE flight instruction in an Exp airplane, and the CFI can charge. You cannot rent the airplane to someone for flight instruction or for anything else. As noted by DW, many FSDOs have policy prohibiting their inspectors from flying in Exp aircraft, but you may be able to find a DPE who will.

    But, back to the original point: As I noted earlier, installing dual controls is a personal choice....if as noted, two pilots will fly together, that's a great reason to go there. But so you can flight instruct, maybe not so much.

    And, depending on the installation, installing dual controls can be a big deal.

    i say go for it.

    MTV

  4. #44
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.A. View Post
    .......... The engine is already off and I’m trying to figure out who to take it to.
    Can anyone recommend an engine shop in the Northwest that is sympathetic to hot rodded non-certificated engines that would be willing to consider FIXING the engine or an IRAN rather than defaulting to throwing a $30K overhaul invoice at me?.........
    Aerosport Power up in Kamloops BC might be worth looking into. The home of the famous "Bart engines", until Bart left a year or two ago. Dunno if they're into fixing as opposed to overhauling, but it's worth a call.

  5. #45
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    I keep finding out things about this airplane and the mods Denny did. I know a common mod is to make the front seat fold forward, Denny just cut it off and added solid aluminum plugs and slid the seat back over them.
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  6. #46
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    There's an awful lot of monkey motion going on under the front seat because of the aileron drooping system. Chris and I agree that we'll remove that system.
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  7. #47
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    I was talking to Jerry about the flap dump system and he mentioned he thought Cub Crafters had come up with it. I emailed this picture to Jim Richmond and sure enough, it was their set up. Jim said they did a few experimental Cubs with flap dump systems about 20 years ago and they were all a little different.
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  8. #48
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    We definitely want a nitrous system, if not now, soon, but we're going to come up with our own installation.
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  9. #49
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    You can see the mod to the flap handle for the dump system as well as some of the extra linkage under the seat for the aileron droop system. However, check out the flap handle itself, it telescopes. I thought that was pretty cool!
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  10. #50
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Thanks for the pics, again. It's always nice to have some good idea in picture.

    I really don't hate the removable seat back... Pretty simple.


    I cannot say the same thing about the drooping ailerons.. A lot of mechanism working down there. I'll pass this mod.

    I don't understand yet the flap dumping assembly. It release the flaps electricly on the flap trigger handle, and make it smoother by passing trough an hydrolic ajustable valve?? Maybe DW could help me on that...



    I'm not ready yet for a nitrous setup, but it sure looks interesting.


    Continue to post pics of this very nice airplane.
    I would love to try your bird. Looks like a real performer to me.



    BTW:You should put those seatbelt anchor to the floors before others tell you to do it

  11. #51
    Chris in Idaho's Avatar
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    Hi Olibuilt,
    Our theory is that the cylinder takes the place of the detents for the flap handle. There's a solenoid valve that should be activated by a button on the stick. It looks like you can open the valve to put the handle wherever you want and when you close the valve the flaps are locked into their current position by the captive hydraulic fluid in the cylinder. When you want to dump the flaps you open the valve (hit the button on the stick), the cylinder can move freely and the flaps are released to retract under spring tension and aerodynamic pressure.
    However we haven't had a chance to really play with the system yet so I could be completely wrong.

  12. #52
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olibuilt View Post
    ...drooping ailerons..I'll pass this mod…
    Us too
    Quote Originally Posted by Olibuilt View Post
    …I don't understand yet the flap dumping assembly…
    You ain’t the only one buddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Olibuilt View Post
    ...BTW:You should put those seatbelt anchor to the floors before others tell you to do it
    That’s definitely on the list for sure. I can’t believe the only thing holding you in place are 4 tiny bolts in shear in thin wall tubing. That’s just wrong.

  13. #53
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    My take on the flap dump is to dump the lift as soon as your main wheels hit, puts weight on the wheels and it's done flying now. It's a lot easier to hit a button on the stick than to take your hand off the throttle that your messing with to keep it flying slow and retract the flaps. If I had it on my cub I would leave it. I can see how it would be handy.

  14. #54
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    ...I would leave it...
    We've come to the exact same conclusion for the exact same reasons. Brilliant minds, right?

  15. #55

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    So when are you guys going to have a open Hangar so we can see this airplane in person?Is it here in Washington or in Idaho?

  16. #56
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by photosfromabove View Post
    So when are you guys going to have a open Hangar....
    The ship is kind of under wraps right now until there is actually something to look at. However, I do have An update: I ordered 35” BW's for the Cub today. But of course, they don’t fit the standard wheel as we all know,so I had to order the 2 special wheels. But of course the brakes that are currently on the ship (Denny liked running Bodel brakes for competition) aren’t compatible with the brake rotors on the special wheels, so I had to order a complete set of 6” Cleveland wheels and brakes and torque plates. OUCH!!!!!

  17. #57

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    Did you check out the Grove stuff?http://www.groveaircraft.com/65-10.html

  18. #58
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    35's run a 10" wheel. Could use grove calipers and what not though.

  19. #59

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    DA, Will 6 inch work then?

  20. #60
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    I probably wasn't clear enough on post #56, the 35" BW's use a 10" wheel and I ordered a pair with the tires. That 10" wheel uses the same brake as a 6" Cleveland, but I didn't have Clevelands, I had/have Bodels, so I had to buy an entire 6" set up in order to have brakes for the 10" wheels and also be able to run 6" tires. I still have a virtually new pair of 31" BW's and we'll probably run 26" GY's for running around local. I hope that clears it up. I'll talk about the Groves soon.

  21. #61
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    Did you check out the Grove stuff?...
    Actually, I DID call Grove first with credit card in hand. I told them I had a highly modified Super Cub running 35” tires on 1.5” axles and I wanted the most powerful brakes I could get, equivalent to the Clevelands. Completely through them for a loop. They could not tell me which of their products I should buy. She started asking me “Sir, is this like a Wag Aero Cubby?” I thanked her for her time, wished her Happy Thanksgiving and ended the call.
    So then I called Airframes AK and just decided to get their equivalent of the Clevelands. I said I want the 199-71 Wheel and Brake assembly, but I have 1.5” axles with 4 bolt flanges, would they please provide torque plates for 1.5” Super Cub gear. COMPLETELY STUMPED them, they put me in touch with their technical expert, COMPLETELY STUMPED him, he had to go talk to their mechanic. What the result – They could not come up with a product to sell me for a Super Cub with 1.5” axles. I couldn’t believe it – I couldn’t believe it. We even talked a SECOND time on the phone and I reiterated my request again, Clevelands for a Super Cub with 1.5” axles, couldn’t be done. I’m thinking any minute now someone is going to pop out with a video camera and this was all a joke, right? Wrong.
    So then I call my good friend, amazing technical advisor and all around super dude (I won’t mention his name, but his initials are DW) and he chuckles and says he has two different sets of torque plates for 1.5” axles and he’ll bring them tomorrow when he comes up. I also ask about the beefier 199-62A brakes and it turns out that’s what he runs. So, I go back to Airframes website and just order the 35’s, the 10” wheels and the 199-62A Assemblies on their shopping cart and call it good.
    One last point, I called AA a third time just to verify that there are actually two wheels and brakes in their 199-62A kit. There are two in the picture, but the description says Wheel, not Wheels, and Brake, not Brakes and Assembly, not Assemblies. I just wanted to verify that there were two, not one, that’s all, easy question - - - She wanted to refer me to the technical expert again…. I said whoa, wait a minute, it’s just a question of quantity, one or two? She said, well, let me look. I can hear her tapping on the keyboard and realize she’s looking at the exact same screen and picture that I’m looking at and she comes back with “There are two there.” At that point I stopped talking to people on the phone.
    I came away with 2 conclusions from all of this: 1) I may have been talking to aviation companies, but I wasn’t talking to aviation people. It’s like when you walk into today’s typical auto parts store and ask for a replacement arm rest and the girl asks if it has a 6 or 8 cylinder. You’re in an auto parts store but you’re not talking to car people. 2) What we experimental guys do is really cool. We cut and paste and end up with what we feel is the right combination, what a cool pursuit. And virtually everyone on this website would understand what you’re doing with those cuts and pastes, but the place you go to buy the scissors and paper may not have a clue. By the time we make a buying decision, we probably know more about their product than the people answering the phone – Trust me….

  22. #62
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Robbie Grove has a Super Cub but his stuff is not compatible with Cleveland stuff.

    I have to ask why you would buy the airplane and then modify it before you had a chance to fly it and evaluate the performance yourself.

    The flapdumpis pretty awesome in my opinion. Watch the Breeden's at Valdez and Oshkosh and how fast the dump works. I do the same thing when playing on the gravel bars but like Tom says it is a bit more cumbersome with a stock system. Played with the system on Mike Olsen's Cuzoom and that it was the cat's a$$. Mike sellsthe kits as well.
    Steve Pierce

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  23. #63

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    http://www.groveaircraft.com/600series.html Go to the 7th column and it says Ref 2, then go to the very bottom of the page and it explains reference 2. I think Robbie would be a very good guy to visit with when you could get a moment of his time. I have the 62s on my cub, with the north river boosters, heavy duty but you will never look back.

  24. #64
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    But it is not going to be compatible with an AK Bushwheel 10" wheel used on a 35" Bushwheel that is set up for Cleveland disc and calipers. Tried and doesn't work.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  25. #65
    Chris in Idaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I have to ask why you would buy the airplane and then modify it before you had a chance to fly it and evaluate the performance yourself.
    Hi Steve. We're not making any major changes, unless you're counting the wheels and brakes, and the rest of the world has done enough evaluation for us to know that 35" Alaskan Bushwheels kick butt! As far as the drooping ailerons go, they may be helpful in a few scenarios, but Dad and I both agreed that it isn't worth the loss of aileron authority. At least around here, the wind regularly comes up out of nowhere suddenly, and it's not at all uncommon to need full deflection at you disposal.

    There are some things to go over before flying, and it just makes the most sense to alter the things we're sure of while we're already hands on.

    That being said, if we end up removing the slats or flying on the 3" gear instead of the 13" gear, we're definitely keeping the parts handy. In a day Dad and I could attack the thing and turn it back into the competition machine it is now.

    Chris

  26. #66
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Does it have the drooping aileron system like Jerry Burr's Cub? His you can turn on and off.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  27. #67
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    If it has the drooping ailerons that are always deployed with the flaps I personally would ditch them. I didn't like the lack of roll control with them extended. It doesn't look like in the pics that it has and hydrosorbs or bungees?
    I've been dumping the flaps as soon as or a little before I touch down. Seems to work good. Would be nice to have a button to do that with.

  28. #68
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Does it have the drooping aileron system like Jerry Burr's Cub? His you can turn on and off.
    Steve, Jerry's system is all cable whereas ours is a cable/push pull system. I might be mistaken, but I don't think Jerry's can be turned off, I'll check. Either way, the system in ours is coming out.

  29. #69
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    If it has the drooping ailerons that are always deployed with the flaps I personally would ditch them...
    It does, we are.
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    …I didn't like the lack of roll control with them extended...
    That’s exactly why we’re removing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    …It doesn't look like in the pics that it has and hydrosorbs or bungees?.
    The competition main gear did not have any suspension. It is 13” extended and from eyeball, it’s at least 6” raked forward, that’s just a guess. The gear is really well made, everything is made out of streamlined tubing. Wayne Mackey built the gear in the early years, nice gear. We’re happy to have them and intend to use them if we get serious about competition. Steve Furjesi, Super 12 fame, is building us a suspension system for the 3X3 Gear that we’re getting from DW. Here it is: http://www.super-12.com/Products-Suspension_System.html I’ve talked to Steve about building a suspension for the 13” gear as well, but I’m still undecided if that’s the way to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    ..I've been dumping the flaps…Would be nice to have a button to do that with…
    Yeah, we’re definitely sold on the flap dump system – It stays.

  30. #70
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    I took a little closer look at the existing Nitrous System today. On the engine, there are 2 brackets bolted to the rear accessory pads, one of them has a component with braided lines attached to it. The other bracket used to have something bolted to it but is now bare. From that first bracket/component, the braided lines split off and go to each cylinder at the head just above each intake tube. At first I thought this would have been for the additional fuel during the nitrous injection, but all the other braided lines in the fuselage are for the nitrous I believe, so maybe the braided lines at the cylinders carried nitrous and he pumped in extra fuel through the throttle body. The additional fuel pump and valves and so on are mounted on a plate in the baggage compartment, we'll clean that up as well. Plus, we're going to a different system, so all of that is coming out. There's also a fuel line and valve near the pilot's left knee, all that comes out.
    Chris is the brains of this operation and he's talking about a system that injects the exact same amount in each cylinder by having both Nitrous and Fuel inject through nozzles attached to bosses welded to each intake tube. In theory, its possible to have rich or lean conditions depending on where and how the nitrous and fuel are injected. Just because it's injected into the induction path, it doesn't necessarily mean it will mix perfectly and distribute evenly to each cylinder. Having individual nozzles with equal pressure and flow at each nozzle at each intake tube should create equal/even flow to all cylinders which would hopefully prevent a lean cylinder.
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  31. #71
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    A few small victories today: 1) I got the rear floorboard up. 2) The tubing is like brand new. 3) All the structural provisions are in place for rear pedal controls.
    Originally Piper put the floorboards down with bolts on the top of the floor and nuts underneath, and then covered the fuselage, or at least that's how they did it on the older ones like the J5. I had hoped that nutplates would have been installed at the last rebuild but 4 of the bolts just spun when I tried to remove the rear floorboard. I drilled the 4 bolt heads off and pull the floorboard up. Turns out that the tabs that hold the bolts actually were drilled for nutplates, but none were installed. I'll just put nutplates in before we close it up again. Also, I was concerned about the tube condition because there was a large accumulation of oily dirt and crud visible in the belly around the opening in the floorboard at the rear of the torque tube. I was afraid the whole belly might look like that. As it turns out, except for several dead moths and a twix wrapper, it was actually fairly (Sorta) clean under there and the tubes are perfect. They look like they were painted yesterday. Another big victory was the rear control provisions. Our fuselage is an A Model, even though it has a center fabric stringer running down the top of the fuselage which makes it look like a standard fuselage rather than a flat back. The A's didn't have rear controls, but I didn't know if that meant the structure was missing also. Either way, the structure is in ours.
    All the way around, a good day!
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  32. #72
    Chris in Idaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.A. View Post
    3) All the structural provisions are in place for rear pedal controls.
    That's a relief! We've been wondering about that.

  33. #73
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    D.A.,
    I'm confused. I thought that this was an Experimental-Amateur Built airplane? Now you're saying that it is a modified "A" model PA-18. Was this an old agricultural flat back model which was extensively modified or does it have a data plate which is stamped "PA-18A" and the TC "AR-7"? I have seen brand new Super Cubs which were ordered from the factory as standard two passenger airplanes. The data plate was stamped "PA-18A". I'm only suggesting that if labeled with an "A" it isn't necessarily an agricultural model.
    N1PA

  34. #74
    tcraft128's Avatar
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    Seems that when the experimental fuselage was built, the builder copied some of the A model atributes into the design. Looking great DA, keep up this pace and you will make NH next year. I have Steves gear, it is great quality, and he is always willing to help.
    Turning money into noise since 1996

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    Thanks Mander thanked for this post

  35. #75
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcraft128 View Post
    …Looking great DA, keep up this pace and you will make NH next year…
    Thanks my friend. This airplane has a really interesting past. The more I dig into the airplane itself and its history, the more interesting things I find.
    Quote Originally Posted by tcraft128 View Post
    …I have Steve’s gear, it is great quality, and he is always willing to help.
    Agreed on all points. There are a lot of people that can weld, and there are people that are magicians with a torch, Steve is amazing as a welder. But he’s not just a welder, he’s an amazing fabricator and innovator. Plus, like you’ve already mentioned, he’s just a great guy. I should have my suspension in a couple weeks.

  36. #76
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    So, what do you do when its 19 degrees out in the hangar - - - You turn the heater on in the shop and work on the engine. This is the Angle Valve engine that we were going to put in our other SC homebuilt, but now we're going to overhaul it and convert it to parallel valve. I'm just about to start taking it apart and get everything ready to ship out to the list of shops that our friend Bugs66 provided.
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  37. #77
    D.A.'s Avatar
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    I got most of the peripheral stuff off tonight and one cylinder. Another week of whittling away at it and I should have most of the pieces ready to send out.
    Chris and I had a long talk this afternoon, we had intended since day one to build up an engine that could run Mogas but we've got a box of brand new Lycon 10-1 pistons and a new set of rings that keep winking at me when I walk in the shop. We're leaning toward running the higher compression at this point, still plenty of time to change our mind though I suppose.
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  38. #78
    Chris in Idaho's Avatar
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    Nice job!

    Yeah we're thinking that the increased efficiency of the higher compression sort of takes away from the difference in price between the mogas and avgas. The mogas still probably comes out a little cheaper, but close enough that we'd prefer the extra power. Of course like D.A. said we may change our minds (been known to happen more than once).

  39. #79

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    Mogas North Dakota $2.65/gallon today. The last thing to be concerned with is the price of gas, even before this drop. I hope you do but you cant fly enough, where gas is your least concern. Although i think theres a lot of $5-6 avgas still around.

  40. #80
    Chris in Idaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    $2.65, is that ethanol free?

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