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Thread: 3rd Class Medical Reform in January 2015? ...crumbling of the proverbial Berlin Wall, FAA style

  1. #441
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Ah - I read the AC yesterday, and I think that the "exam information" is the Doctor's name, address, and license # - not the contents of the checklist. I think - - -
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  2. #442

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    AOPA:

    It is important that pilots take those steps in that order because the exam information will need to be transmitted upon successful completion of the aeromedical course.
    HuH?! Transmitted to who? Where did this come from?

    I thought we went through the steps, printed the results and then kept them with us while exercising our privileges. I must be missing something.

  3. #443
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qsmx440 View Post
    HuH?! Transmitted to who? Where did this come from?

    I thought we went through the steps, printed the results and then kept them with us while exercising our privileges. I must be missing something.
    Read the Advisory circular:


    1. 6.3 Documents the Course Must Provide to the Individual and Transmit to the FAA. Inaccordance with § 68.3(b), upon successful completion of the course, the medicaleducation course must electronically provide to the individual and transmit to the FAA:
      1. A certification of completion of the medical education course.
      2. A release authorizing single access to the National Driver Register (NDR)through a designated state Department of Motor Vehicles to furnish to theFAA information pertaining to the individual’s driving record.
      3. A certification by the individual that the individual is under the care andtreatment of a physician if the individual has been diagnosed with any medicalcondition that may impact the ability of the individual to fly.
      4. Information provided by the pilot about the physician and the comprehensivemedical examination, including:
        • The pilot’s name, address, telephone number, and airman certificate number;
        • The name, address, telephone number, and state medical license number of the
          physician performing the comprehensive medical examination.

        • A statement certifying that the individual understands the existing prohibitionon operations during medical deficiency. In accordance with § 68.3(b)(5), theperson must attest that “I understand that I cannot act as pilot in command, orany other capacity as a required flightcrew member, if I know or have reasonto know of any medical condition that would make me unable to operate theaircraft in a safe manner.” This statement shall be electronically provided tothe individual and transmitted to the FAA upon successful completion of thecourse. ••

          The date of the comprehensive medical examination; and
          A certification by the individual that the checklist described in § 68.7 wasfollowed and signed by the physician in the comprehensive medical examination.

          MTV



  4. #444
    S2D's Avatar
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    This went from a "no medical required" for private pilot, same as the Sport Pilot, to a whole new bureaucracy. I'd stick with the AME til I think I need to go to Sport Pilot.

  5. #445
    S2D's Avatar
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    MTV
    Did you copy and paste that directly from the Advisory Circular, or retype it yourself ?

  6. #446

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    Just a reminder for those near borders or wanting to fly south from AK, can't fly out of the country on a Basic Med ticket.
    BasicMed seems an advantage for those with SI's, that's about it.
    Raising Sport Pilot gross weight and restrictions is the way we should try to fight this in the future, FAA already approved a 1510 GW S-LSA, the ICON A5, maybe there's a chance to increase GW further.
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  7. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    BasicMed seems an advantage for those with SI's, that's about it.
    Not totally. Some of us do not have a convenient DME but do have a PCP with whom we have a good relationship. It is much more of a healthy practice to have a Doc with whom you can relate who does not need to report to the FAA who will ground you if you cough incorrectly. You and I will be more likely to seek proper medical care if our flying privileges are not always on the line. I had a good DME who I saw for decades with whom I could have "off the record" discussions. Time passes on and he went west. It is risky to find a new one with the same level of understanding. What if the new one presents a positive picture but will not have "off the record" discussions? And you don't learn this until "after the fact" when the FAA tells you that you are grounded?

    I for one welcome this new process, even with it's warts. Can it be improved? Yes. Will it? I hope so.
    N1PA

  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    This went from a "no medical required" for private pilot, same as the Sport Pilot, to a whole new bureaucracy. ...
    I agree.
    This kinda reminds me of the $20 car tabs law passed in washington several years ago, after a voter initiative.
    Or was it $40?
    Doesn't matter, because the very next time I got a renewal notice it was way more than what I expected.
    Pass whatever law the people want...then clutter it up with additional requirements ....
    just like what seems to be happening to this Basic Med thing.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  9. #449

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    AOPA:

    Pilots will be able to fly under BasicMed starting May 1, and many want to know how they can prepare in advance to take full advantage of the benefits of the rule the first day. Before flying under BasicMed, pilots must get a physical exam by a state-licensed physician, have the associated checklist completed, and then complete the online aeromedical course. It is important that pilots take those steps in that order because the exam information will need to be transmitted upon successful completion of the aeromedical course. AOPA encourages pilots to review the regulation and the advisory circular that were released so that they can get an overview of the privile
    My understanding of this is that you must include the information about the physical (your info, the physician's info, and the date of the exam) along with the form showing completion of the Aeromedical course. As I read it, you do not (ever, apparently) submit the actual BasicMed questionnaire to the FAA, unless it is specifically requested. Instead, you file it in your logbook to be presented "on demand" by an FAA official. And even that can be an "image copy" attached to your electronic logbook.

    I don't think this is anything like the FAA 3rd-Class MedXpress form, were once your AME opens it, you've technically "applied" for a medical...
    Jim Parker
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  10. #450
    S2D's Avatar
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    The real problem has been, Pilots for years have been reluctant to go to a doctor because anything in their records would mean The FAA could access it with the new laws that has everything in an electronic Database and jerk your medical if they found anything they didn't like . I had a friend that wouldn't go get his heart checked or see why he was short of breath anytime he did something cause he might lose his medical. Nothing showed up on his FAA medial exam so he just left well enough alone. It killed him. Had the Law been such that his license was the same as a sport pilot, he no doubt would have gone and had something done for his heart. Then when he was well, he could have gone back to flying. Nothing has changed but who you now go to.
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  11. #451
    sniffler's Avatar
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    I have a SI for diabetes, am on a yearly cycle/two year cycle where year one I get my 3rd class medical, year two I do a status update, have my personal Doctor sign a letter, submit my A1C and my medical is renewed. So I have to get a new paper medical every year but the hoops change.

    Then my SI letter it’s self has a cycle I think it’s 6 or 8 years so the AME medical I had yesterday was my last medical on this SI letter and I have one more “renewal” which I can do at an AME (easy, while you are sitting there) or mail the papers in directly to Oklahoma, which works but is a bit scary as things just disappear for a few weeks while you wait. Hiccup I had last year was my AME retired and new AME I went to would not do the renewal for me so I sent papers in to Oklahoma crossed my fingers and finally my medical showed up.

    So I now have ~2 years for the BasicMed process to hopefully shake out. As others have noted the issue will be the checklist. My personal Doctor is Internal Medicine. I am in my 60’s so don’t need a GP. If something goes wrong it will most like be internal. While I see her twice a year and have a physical once a year the emphasis is on blood work and my diabetes checking organ functions that sort of thing. I also see an opthamologist once a year for a “diabetic” eye exam.

    My point is if the BasicMed checklist includes things like:
    #3 Ears - I had swimmers ear, she sent me to see a ears nose and throat specialist
    #4 Eyes - she would send me to see my opthamologist or another specialist
    #9 Anus - off I would go to see the proctologist
    #11 GU - yep time for another referral
    #20 vision - she does not have the color vision book or eye chart or machines at her clinic

    You get the idea. My doctor is OK with signing the diabetes checklist and reporting my A1C but you toss all this other stuff in there and it ain’t going to happen, I am getting shipped off to see a dozen different doctors.

    So was talking about all this to my new AME, former Navy flight surgeon, super nice guy but again in his 70’s I asked him if he would be my fall back that if I came in would he give me a BasicMed physical instead of a class 3. He said he didn’t see why not.

    So in roughly a year I will decide if I go BasicMed which gives me four years or stick with the SI which means every year I have to do something.

    I think it also means I need to finally wrap up my IFR ticket while I am on the class 3 as it sounds like check rides for new ratings cannot be done on BasicMed.

    Randi

  12. #452
    sniffler's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #453
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    MTV
    Did you copy and paste that directly from the Advisory Circular, or retype it yourself ?
    Copy and paste. The formatting changed a little: the last two paragraphs should have been a continuation of the billeted items.

    MTV

  14. #454
    S2D's Avatar
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    I can already see I 'd fail. #17 would get me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. #455
    sniffler's Avatar
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    oh and I don't think this part will fly with my Doc either, am thinking she won't be cracking open AIM 8-1-1 or the AME Guide anytime soon!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #456
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Copy and paste. The formatting changed a little: the last two paragraphs should have been a continuation of the billeted items.

    MTV
    OK
    The reason I asked, is because if you retyped it, I can see the errors just hurrying. If this is an official Govt document, I find it pathetic. A third grader could do a better job with less errors.

  17. #457
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniffler View Post
    ....I think it also means I need to finally wrap up my IFR ticket while I am on the class 3 as it sounds like check rides for new ratings cannot be done on BasicMed. Randi
    That isn't my take on it at all, but maybe I missed something.
    Where's that little tidbit hidden?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  18. #458
    sniffler's Avatar
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    I don't know that checkride ride part for sure but I guess we don't know anything for sure about basicmed. And I would assume they will sort it out sooner or later and fix all the broken links to class 3. What headed me down that path was this comment on AVweb.

    For example, the legislation did not require the FAA to allow someone to take a checkride to add a NEW rating without holding a Class III. And, the existing regs explicitly, separately, require a Class III when taking a checkride to add a new rating! To give an example of how that can matter, today you can fly an LSA on a driver license medical with your private pilot certificate, but you cannot GET a private pilot certificate in that same airplane unless you have a Class III medical for the checkride. And, if the FAA had not made things "more complicated", the new medical could have meant you could fly on your Private ASEL forever, but you could never add an Instrument Rating, or a seaplane rating, or multi-engine, or whatever. But, the FAA will add language saying that you can take a checkride under the new medical rules. It's "more complicated" - but it's better!

  19. #459
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniffler View Post
    ...To give an example of how that can matter, today you can fly an LSA on a driver license medical with your private pilot certificate, but you cannot GET a private pilot certificate in that same airplane unless you have a Class III medical for the checkride....
    I think this person is confused. In this example it isn't that you can't take a checkride without a medical certificate--- it's that a medical certificate is required for the license / rating being applied for. At this point in time, you can't issue a PP certificate to someone who doesn't hold at least a 3rd class medical. But you can take a sport pilot checkride in that airplane without a medical because a medical isn't required for SP.

    Check paragraph 3.2 "basic privileges" in the BasicMed AC 68-1 dated 1/9/17
    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...ar/AC_68-1.pdf
    "You can conduct any operation that you would otherwise be able to conduct using your pilot certificate and a third class medical ..." with certain limitations, none of which are taking checkrides.
    Last edited by hotrod180; 01-15-2017 at 11:13 AM.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  20. #460

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    Quote Originally Posted by sniffler View Post
    I think it also means I need to finally wrap up my IFR ticket while I am on the class 3 as it sounds like check rides for new ratings cannot be done on BasicMed.
    Randi
    Check out page B-2 (an appendix near the end of the AC) of the AC regarding checkrides. It specifically states you may take a practical exam (checkride) on BasicMed.
    I'd highly encourage you to finish up your IFR ticket anyway, ASAP, regardless of BasicMed. It'll be good for ya!

    George

  21. #461
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    So I can't fly into Canada on my Basic Med?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  22. #462
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Yeah, I saw that too. Only if Canada approves BasicMed.
    Gordon

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  23. #463

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    How does one get Canadian approval? Case by case? Who do you ask for approval? It would be shame if a BasicMed pilot could not even fly between two US states (Alaska and xxxxx)

    George

  24. #464
    mvivion's Avatar
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    You don't get Canadian approval, unless Canada decides to go this same direction, and since they haven't opted to accept LS yet, good luck.

    MTV

  25. #465

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    AC 68-1, 1/9/2017, page B-1, quote: "Q: Can I use BasicMed to act as a safety pilot, rather than holding a medical? A:Only if you’re acting as PIC while performing the duties of safety pilot. BasicMed applies only to people acting as PIC; it cannot be exercised by safety pilots who are not acting as PIC but are required crewmembers." (see footnote to next section)

    See more page 4.1, quote: "Applicability. The BasicMed privileges apply to persons exercising student, recreational, and private pilot privileges. It also applies to persons exercising flight instructor privileges when acting as pilot in command (PIC). You cannot use BasicMed privileges to fly as a safety pilot, except when that pilot is acting as PIC.1" footnote #1: "1The plain language of FESSA explicitly applies only to the PIC (“...the FAA shall issue or revise regulations to ensure that an individual may operate as pilot in command of a covered aircraft...”)." Similar on page 5.2, para 5.2.

    History of FESSA. Refer to House Bill H.R. 1062 with 188 bipartisan co-sponsors. FESSA was a lop-sided compromise to get what we got. It is essentially moving all existing Federal (FAA) 3rd Class Medical requirements, plus the 2-year med course, onto a state-licensed medic. This raises an Article X constitutional issue confounding doctor and driver's licenses issued by the States. Previous posts indicate many will not take on the liability because that is intent of FESSA. If one carefully reads the law's wording, it also equates the medical exam outcomes to whether a person can safely operate an automobile. So caution is required when one asks a medic to certify one can "safely operate" [a machine].

    DOT is "calibrated" to equate small GA airplane drivers same as truck drivers, and airline pilots, e.g., the body mass index (BMI) / sleep apnia proposed rules. That is dead for now.

    I have met AME's with true common sense, e.g., "keep 'em flying", who know the FAA OKC Docs and what fit-to-fly really means. That resource is precious if one can find them.

    Al
    FAA CFII
    Last edited by LTC Al; 01-16-2017 at 10:34 PM.

  26. #466

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    For 6 months last year, I made serious effort to warn many U.S. General Aviation (GA) groups about Senate Act S.571 Pilots Bill of Rights 2 (PBR2) wording. My U.S. Congressman (a Member of Transportation Committee, (a Member of Congress, MoC)), and most of my state's MoC's after prodding, did co-sponsor one or both of the true reform House PBR2 Bills (H.R. 1062 and H.R. 1086). But my MoC delayed my request for meeting until all was settled.

    Main outcomes:
    I learned GA pilots no longer have effective advocacy with our elected representatives esp in the Senate;
    MoC's will only listen to various competing stakeholder association positions with the "loudest megaphones", not to individual citizens, i.e., GA pilots are considered "single issue constituents";
    H.R. 4441 privatization battle over who controls the national airspace that made it out of House Trans Committee then thankfully died, completely overwhelmed any reform / simplification of FAA medical standards;
    finally, silence came from the few that were interested when they realized airport funding would be renewed.

    After it was signed and became a law, the primary advocate who led PBR1 and PBR2 reported the problem is many uninformed MoC's (esp in the Senate) will only listen to what the FAA will agree to.

    FAA has been operating on temporary funding extensions for years, the present one expires in September. Best hope for true reform is if sufficient number of GA pilots organize then speak out with one clear voice about the current flawed legislation. Diligence and continuous efforts to their MoC and Senator to adopt H.R. 1062 wording which did have solid bipartisan support in 114th Congress. But timely actions are required if this present law and rule is made whole. New leadership at DOT may be more sympathetic, may entertain common sense resolution before the next FAA funding is put to bed early this summer. I am optimistic, but the new DOT leader can ignore the issues because she has to enforce the existing law. Otherwise, we will be stuck, probably 5 or 6 years, with the ostrich misnamed "medical reform".

    Al in TN
    CFII
    Last edited by LTC Al; 01-18-2017 at 09:38 AM.

  27. #467
    barbwire's Avatar
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    Like SD2, I think I will just go to my AME before the May 1st deadline and get my Class 3 while I still have good health! The timing works for me and it will give time for this thing to get sorted out.
    I would like to thank those that have posted information and commented. It has been a great thread to follow.
    I will continue to follow and watch for clarification as time progresses.
    A big thanks to Randy for his perspective and please keep the information coming.

    tom
    Last edited by barbwire; 01-17-2017 at 04:42 PM.

  28. #468

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    Just completed my last 3rd Class medical this morning
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  29. #469
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    LTC Al whoever you are...

    What is an MoC?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  30. #470
    sniffler's Avatar
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    Congressman = MOC

  31. #471
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    So could a U.S. pilot get a Canada Category 4 medical certificate from Canada and then be legal to fly in Canada
    with out a 3ed class med ?

    Category 4 Certification
    Several years ago when ultralights and other recreational aircraft were starting to become quite popular, Canada decided to create a non-ICAO compliant medical certificate, Category 4. The only requirement needed to obtain this level of medical certification is a form of self-declaration similar to that of a driver’s licence. To that end, a screening medical questionnaire was created and the need to see a Civil Aviation Medical Examiner (CAME) eliminated. However, you need to have your family physician countersign the questionnaire if you want to carry a passenger on your aircraft. That’s right: no physical examination, unless of course you have or have had one of the conditions that we are concerned about, in which case you may need to see a CAME.
    So what can you do with a Category 4 medical certificate? It is the medical document required to validate a Student Pilot Permit, a RPP, a U/L and a GPL. With an RPP you can fly day VFR, on a non-high-performance, four-seat or less single engine aircraft with a single passenger. In other words, virtually all of the aircraft most recreational pilots fly. So, if you are a light aircraft driver who doesn’t need or want to fly to the U.S. or IFR, you don’t need to visit your CAME. Unlike the Sport Pilot Permit in the U.S., it is possible to receive a Category 4 medical certificate if you have previously been denied a Category 1, 2 or 3 certificate, assuming of course the medical condition has been dealt with and does not pose a flight safety hazard. You don’t need to have a driver’s licence and any decision made by Transport Canada (TC) can be appealed. The certificate can also be issued with a restriction as well, unlike the U.S. where you get it or you don’t, such as “no passenger” if your medical condition warrants.

    In TC’s experience, over 90 percent of Category 4 applicants get the certificate, no questions asked. The other 10 percent may need to supply Civil Aviation Medicine with more information and less than 1 percent are denied. The standards are very close to those of a Class 5 driver’s licence in Canada, although TC is more stringent on issues such as respiratory disease requiring oxygen and seizure disorders.
    So if you don’t like visiting your friendly neighbourhood CAME, take a look at the Category 4 Medical Certificate and the RPP and see if it meets your flying needs. Over 7 000 of your fellow pilots can’t be wrong!
    In an upcoming issue we’ll talk about what you can do if you don’t like the medical certification decision made by Civil Aviation Medicine.

  32. #472

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    To get back to physician liability, AOPA said some months ago that PCPs are used to signing off on life insurance physicals, and (AOPA says) the insurance checklist is similar to the BM list. Sorry, no citation, it was in the weekly bulletin, I think.
    What's a go-around?

  33. #473

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    Eddie, I agree enough of all the abbreviations like moc, pcp or BM which I assume means bowel movement As I can't think of another fitting term for it. Come on guys,, spell out the correct words.

  34. #474

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    Yes. God, I hate aconyms and mnemonics. I think I hate the "DECIDE" and "ImSAFE" stuff more than I hate hearing folks say "you know" six times each sentence. One of our many airport employees used GL exactly once in a document of 43 pages, and the only way you knew what it meant was the preceding sentence spoke of "general liability". Yuk!

  35. #475

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefoy84 View Post
    LTC Al whoever you are...

    What is an MoC?
    Member of Congress ~ MoC

  36. #476
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    I received this note from Dr. Schall, our RFS...

    Randy:
    If they haven’t seen the Advisory Circular on this, you can provide it. See attached. You don’t need a license or medical to take lessons, only if you want to be PIC or solo. Under the MEDBASIC you need to have had a current Class III or higher done within the last 10yrs that has not been revoked, suspended or denied; then you need to get an exam done under the BASICMED by your treating Physician using the approved checklist followed by doing the online training about Medical conditions. The online training is done every 2 yrs and the exam every 4 unless your Physician has you return sooner for your medical condition. If you have an SI for a condition it is now followed by your treating Physician with whatever you and he deem necessary. If you come down with a condition that requires a Special Issuance, then you have to go get one from the FAA which means a 3rd Class or higher exam. If during the flying with the MEDBASIC you are found to have a condition that you should not be flying with, i.e. someone calls a hotline in on you because they know you are actively undergoing chemo and still flying, then the only thing you have to surrender is your Pilot’s license, which means you start over from scratch. Hopefully more guidance will be coming out for our AMEs and Physicians soon, I’ve been pressing the Federal Air Surgeon for this.

    He refers to Advisory Circular 68-1, Dated 1/9/2017. 35 pages long.

    Will be posting more on this under a thread entitled "BasicMed" shortly, so that we can move on from the "Crumbling Wall..."

    Randy
    Thanks barbwire thanked for this post

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