Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 63 of 63

Thread: B&C LR3C-14 voltage regulator Failures?

  1. #41
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    wireweinie, thanks for taking the time to analyze the problem. My circuit diagram is included as a .pdf file in the members area; please take a look. it follows the B&C schematics. I ran through the 2 page B&C troubleshooting guide which pretty much checks out continuity and voltage drops throughout -- all looks good as I reported earlier and I visually checked all wires. All terminals pass the pull test so nothing is loose that I can ascertain. Keep in mind that this system has worked for 324 hrs so it definitely doesn't include some crossed wires. The circuit breaker (will be a new one since I disassembled the old one), wiring and battery checks out (has been holding 12.8 volts for a week just setting on a bench) as does resistance through the alternator field -- although if a problem persists, I should probably follow the suggestion of watching the field resistance as I turn the engine through a couple of turns.
    We will see how it all works when I get the regulator back.

  2. #42
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    4,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    If you have a bad cell in the battery, it won't show until you load it. You can have the 12.8 volts at rest and as soon as you crank the engine, you will see a drastic drop in voltage, probably less than about 9 volts. If you leave the alternator off after starting, the voltage will not recover to anywhere near 12 volts. The exact voltage will vary. If, on the other hand, there is still a connection issue, it will show up in your voltage checks. Sometimes troubleshooting is all about eliminating stuff that checks good.

  3. #43
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Web, I took the battery to Batteries +, they put a 100 amp load on it and it stabilized at 10 volts for 10-15 sec, passing their test. Cranking amps were 228, surpassing the PC680 spec of 170 -- so the battery passed the load tests.
    I just went through your checks and startup plan and created the following check list. Thanks again for taking the trouble to write it down:

    Tests Proposed by Web (wireweinie) from Palmer, AK, on Supercub.org, Nov 18, 2014

    1. Verify physical connections of the regulator wiring
    a. Each wire securely terminated & connected to the proper component? YES
    b. Verify that circuit #3, low voltage light are connected to the bus through a fuse/breaker & NOT jumpered to the field circuit, #6, as some have done in the past:
    The low voltage light circuit includes wires to the bus for terminals #3 & #5 with a 2 amp in-line fuse separate from the #6 field circuit which has a 5 amp P&B circuit breaker connected to the bus.

    2. Check field wires, #4 & #6, searching for anything that would short these wires even intermittently. Results Here
    3. Start up Procedure
    a. Pull the alternator output & field breakers & open the low voltage sense wire.
    b. connect a VOM to the bus ­­­__________V
    c. Close the sense/low voltage circuit __________V
    d. Close the output breaker __________V
    e. Close the field breaker __________V
    f. Open the field breaker and start the engine __________V
    g. Close the field breaker __________V

  4. #44
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    4,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Let us know what you find.

    Web

  5. #45
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Will do.

  6. #46

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,521
    Post Thanks / Like
    Darrel
    I found my bad crimp by pushing the wire into the terminal. If I pulled on the wire it would seat and hold than come loose after I flew for a while. Do a hard push test on all the terminals.
    DENNY

  7. #47
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    11,773
    Post Thanks / Like
    one other bad thing if you were overvolting is it will make your battery vent junk.... even the oddessy will vent in an overvolt condition.... that would be nasty to breath....

  8. #48
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have heard of PC680s puffing up from over voltage. Yipes!

  9. #49
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,539
    Post Thanks / Like
    Good thing with everyone making the under seat batt a must have mod, your going to be sitting on the batt. And breathing it.

  10. #50
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Actually the examples I heard of PC680s "puffing up" were cases where someone kept the old mechanical regulator in the circuit. Which I think had no over voltage protection.

  11. #51
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Greg Jones (General Manager @ B&C) agreed that the probable initiating failure was the transistor in the LR3C-14 regulator. Replacing the regulator also worked for Jeff Bloomquist, The RV7 driver who had a similar failure at 375 hrs. (mine was at 324 hrs.).
    I followed wireweinee's advise on start-up after reinstalling the repaired B&C regulator; all was well . During an 0.7 hr. flight today I tried turning on all or some of the electrical stuff. Max draw is 20 amps on the 40 amp alternator. With most things turned on voltage was 14.1; things turned off = 14.3. Glad to have this resolved.
    B&C is absolutely great to deal with -- first class folks!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Panel 06a.jpg 
Views:	90 
Size:	956.5 KB 
ID:	17905
    Last edited by Darrel Starr; 11-25-2014 at 09:54 PM.

  12. #52
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    11,773
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel Starr View Post
    Greg Jones (General Manager @ B&C) agreed that the probable initiating failure was the transistor in the LR3C-14 regulator. ...
    I still say BS, 2 different systems... keep a close eye on it.....

    the small 2 amp? breaker is the one that pops for overvolt... that did not happen(because of the defect in regulator?)

    but what you had happen is field 5 amp FIELD popped...

  13. #53
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    4,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    I see that I still need to get you talked into a round radio and transponder!

    Web

  14. #54
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hard sell job - I really like the ones I have. They do use up real estate however.

  15. #55

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    7,638
    Post Thanks / Like
    I did not check this thread until you bumped my old thread on the same issue. Apparently a badly crimped wire can work perfectly for 324 hours, and then fail, because that happened to us twice. Tug on those suckers. Clean all grounds really well. Pay attention to Mike - both of them.

    edit - not only that, but I failed to note that there were two pages to this thread, hence my post here is horribly out of date.
    Last edited by bob turner; 11-27-2014 at 01:10 AM.

  16. #56
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Pulled on the crimps MANY times. Apparently that often is the problem but as Sherlock Holmes said: "When you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

    From B&C
    Darrel,
    Bill (Bainbridge, B&C Founder) believes your analysis that the transistor failed is correct. Sometimes this component fails due to a static electricity shock, incorrect wiring of the regulator, or it simply fails. This scenario is why the OV protection is important.
    I hope this satisfies your request.
    Greg Jones
    General Manager
    B&C Specialty Products, Inc.

  17. #57
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    11,773
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrel Starr View Post
    ...
    From B&C
    Darrel,
    Bill (Bainbridge, B&C Founder) believes ...
    we all have loved Bill for decades... but he's been getting kinda old/nutty even my nutty last customer noticed he's kinda nutty

  18. #58
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    4,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Breath through the nose, Mike, lol. Remember the AA prayer: . . . God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change . . .

    Web

  19. #59

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Fairvew East (Crane Road Airstrip),Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like
    Interesting thread, guys. Has me wondering. My B & C LR3C-14 failed at about 180 hours without any symptoms or unusual events - just quit charging. All the B & C trouble shooting steps indicated that it was the regulator and nothing else. We just ordered a new one, slapped it on, and went about life. (I did pay B & C to repair and yellow tag the first one so that I have a replacement sitting ready on the shelf and do not loose valuable summer flying time if it fails again. This replacement now has about 180 hours on it and this thread makes me wonder if I should be worried. Are we seeing a pattern from a certain production run of these regulators or just the routine odds of stuff proving that life here is not perfect yet?

  20. #60
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    4,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    This would be interesting to track. The useful info would be: Specific items that failed, circuits affected, serial numbers of the regulators that failed. Seems like this would clear up many questions, but B&C may not want to release this info.

    The only past case that I was given info on, was a run of radios that I carry. I usually buy them two or three at a time, and had transmit problems on one after installation. After pulling out my hair (harder to do as I get older) I emailed the company and they told me, straight up, that they had a lot number of a certain transistor that was substandard. And both radios on my shelf were in the effected serial number range. At least they replaced them free of charge and very quickly.

    One of the problems with this regulator issue is that the reg is wired at the discretion of the owner or mechanic. And electrical seems to be a weak area with lots of shops. Something as simple as one wire in the wrong place or someone trying to connect one last wire, while the power is on, can cost you a regulator. So to truly track the regulators we would need to weed out the regs that were damaged due to install issues.

    Web

  21. #61
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Would like to say again that B&C treated me well and repaired the regulator at no charge. I am curious if my regulator serial number is anywhere close to salex's:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1200084a.JPG 
Views:	62 
Size:	72.6 KB 
ID:	17944

  22. #62

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Fairvew East (Crane Road Airstrip),Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like
    Apparently the serials are not close. I can not do the nice photo at the moment, but the serial on the one of mine that failed - assuming that when B & C repaired it they did not give it a new #, which seems doubtful to me because of the "used" appearance of my label - is 03230051 (font is smaller than the other text in other boxes to allow for one more numeral). It would have been purchased new around 2004 I think and was repaired in 2010 after sitting on my work bench for a while. The apples to apples comparison for electrical stuff will be difficult. I have very little load - no radios, (I use handheld battery powered com and GPS), no landing light or strobes wired up yet, only nav lights and one old beacon. Starter and B & C alternator are the new (2004) light versions.

    With respect to the variables of who the mechanic might be, my system was "designed" at engine overhaul in 2004 by a respected contributor to these threads that has my confidence for sure - though my volunteer "help" with installation might not evoke confidence in anybody!! Still, nothing is so awry that we have any repetitive symptoms or issues on any front. It seems the regulator just spontaneously failed.

  23. #63
    Darrel Starr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts
    2,524
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for that report. I bought mine in the 2004-2006 time frame also.

Similar Threads

  1. 320 Voltage Regulator
    By Nick Saum in forum Modifications
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-03-2009, 10:20 PM
  2. VR600A voltage regulator
    By Jr.CubBuilder in forum Tips and Tricks
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-03-2007, 11:48 AM
  3. Voltage regulator location
    By Aviator in forum Modifications
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-06-2005, 11:41 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •