• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Landing off Airport in Idaho, Montana, and Washington

CGeorge

CGeorge

Registered User
Northern Idaho
I just recently purchased my first Super Cub and am enjoying it immensely. Right now I am focused on proficiency and learning the airplane but in the future I am looking to take on more challenging airfields and back-country flying. My question is: What are the rules for off-airport landings in Idaho (I am located in Coeur d'Alene), Montana, and Washingon. Watching video of off-airport work in Alaska has me wondering if similar opportunities exist in my local states. Any guidance from those with experience here would be greatly appreciated!
 
This is a really complex subject. Bear in mind that you have state lands, private lands, and federal lands, managed by several different agencies, with different rules. Even state owned land will have different rules regarding this, depending on whether it's a state park, forest, etc.

I'd do a search on this web site, and see what you come up with.

MTV
 
Mike is right, it is complex. I make a lot of off-airport landings in Montana. Most of those are on private land or the river gravel bars. The river beds are state owned in Montana and landing below the high water mark is OK. I don't know about other states.

On non-river bed state land I'm not sure of the status.

As far as I know all Forest Service land is off limits except for designated landing fields.

BLM is OK in some areas. My understanding is it depends on whether there is a Travel Plan prohibiting it. Travel Plans are updated every ten years or so.

On private land you need permission of the landowner.

And there is tribal land too. I'm doubtful if the tribes allow it.

Wilderness areas and national parks are off limits.
 
Thanks for the info. I clearly have a lot of research to do. Great to know about river gravel bars in Montana.
 
Dans point regarding tribal lands is a good one.....tribal lands are generally considered sovereign, meaning the tribe has sole jurisdiction over lands and maybe waters inside reservations. Be REAL careful on tribal lands. The tribes have a lot of power there.

MTV
 
While Montana does have one of the best stream access laws in the nation relating to recreational use of streams and stream banks below the ordinary high water mark that doesn't necessarily relate to motorized recreation or recreation with vehicles that are not intended for use on the water. Here's a copy of the State's stream access law brochure (Class I streams are the big ones-Yellowstone etc but the rules read the same for Class II waterway):

"On Class I waters, landowner permission is required for the following recreational uses: • operating all-terrain vehicles or other motorized vehicles not intended for use on the water;"

I read that to say you need landowner permission to land on islands or riverbanks-not owned by the state- inasmuch as a wheeled airplane is not intended for use on the water.....state owned islands are typically shown on the maps as such and generally are only on the larger rivers. Go forth with caution.

d
 
I was under the impression you can land anywhere without asking permission. Taking off afterward is an entirely different matter.
 
akskibum said:
I was under the impression you can land anywhere without asking permission. Taking off afterward is an entirely different matter.
Click to expand...

Like my primary instructor told me 30 years ago: "take offs are optional, landings aren't"
 
MT12 said:
While Montana does have one of the best stream access laws in the nation relating to recreational use of streams and stream banks below the ordinary high water mark that doesn't necessarily relate to motorized recreation or recreation with vehicles that are not intended for use on the water. Here's a copy of the State's stream access law brochure (Class I streams are the big ones-Yellowstone etc but the rules read the same for Class II waterway):

"On Class I waters, landowner permission is required for the following recreational uses: • operating all-terrain vehicles or other motorized vehicles not intended for use on the water;"

I read that to say you need landowner permission to land on islands or riverbanks-not owned by the state- inasmuch as a wheeled airplane is not intended for use on the water.....state owned islands are typically shown on the maps as such and generally are only on the larger rivers. Go forth with caution.

d
Click to expand...

I would agree that landing below the high water mark but not on an island or gravel bar surrounded by water would fall into your quoted reference. My experience has all been on a Class 1 type river, the lower Clark Fork.

Montana FW&P has a good synopsis of the law online.
 
Last edited:
mvivion said:
Dans point regarding tribal lands is a good one.....tribal lands are generally considered sovereign, meaning the tribe has sole jurisdiction over lands and maybe waters inside reservations. Be REAL careful on tribal lands. The tribes have a lot of power there.

MTV
Click to expand...
Mike if you remove the "generally considered" and you will be mostly correct for the lands portion although the EPA retains water quality jurisdiction and Federal law enforcement (FBI, etc.) have authoority. There are however different degrees of Tribal lands (we need more confusion here). So just because a Tribe owns it does not rule out State law. However; if the land has been placed into "Trust" with the BIA then only Federal and Tribal Laws apply so if a parcel is not "in-Trust" nor part of an established Reservation then State laws (including taxes, unless compacted differently) do apply. One thing that is standard though is that the Light Hoarse or Tribal Police, regardless of the location, are charged with protecting their Nation are deffinately not a force to be joked with.
 
Last edited:
Dose Montana specifically define the "Normal High Water Mark" in this instance? I ask because that is a term used in the Clean Water Act for the identification of “Jurisdictional Waters of the United States” for 404 permitting and it is typically much lower (very rarely the top of bank) than one might think.
 
Last edited:
From the Montana Code:
(9) "Ordinary high-water mark" means the line that water impresses on land by covering it for sufficient periods to cause physical characteristics that distinguish the area below the line from the area above it. Characteristics of the area below the line include, when appropriate, but are not limited to deprivation of the soil of substantially all terrestrial vegetation and destruction of its agricultural vegetative value. A flood plain adjacent to surface waters is not considered to lie within the surface waters' high-water marks.

The full code:
http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/23/2/23-2-301.htm
 
A few random thoughts not conected

If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it does it make a sound.....

If a man lands on a deserted section of Blm and no one sees him is he still in trouble...

one thing I really love about flying is how many places I fly over with no one but me around...
 
Do you know if river beds on rivers with HP (boat) restrictions applies to landing an airplane? We have fantastic river beds and gravel bars on the Bitterroot but a buddy told me that because there's a 40 HP limit, we can't land on it's banks? Also, looks like there's long islands and gravel bars on the Thompson River and I'm not sure how to make sure it's legal and I won't get a call from the FAA if I go up there to play. Any advice or links would be super appreciated!! Thanks in Advance

-J
 
Jeff S said:
Do you know if river beds on rivers with HP (boat) restrictions applies to landing an airplane? We have fantastic river beds and gravel bars on the Bitterroot but a buddy told me that because there's a 40 HP limit, we can't land on it's banks? Also, looks like there's long islands and gravel bars on the Thompson River and I'm not sure how to make sure it's legal and I won't get a call from the FAA if I go up there to play. Any advice or links would be super appreciated!! Thanks in Advance

-J
Click to expand...

First, the FAA could care less where you land....unless you break something on your airplane.

As noted earlier, the State of Montana owns the land on NAVIGABLE rivers below ordinary high water. So, you'd have to ask the State that question for those rivers. I seriously doubt a power restriction on boats would apply to a plane. It's entirely possible, however, or maybe probable, that nobody in State government ever thought about someone landing an airplane on a river gravel bar.

And, by the way, there are many definitions of "Ordinary high water". Anyone who tells you definitively what that is for a particular stream may never have read some of the case law involved.

One case I know of, a federal court found that an area with 100 plus year old trees on it was below ordinary high water.....

MTV
 
OLDCROWE said:
Mike if you remove the "generally considered" and you will be mostly correct for the lands portion although the EPA retains water quality jurisdiction and Federal law enforcement (FBI, etc.) have authoority. There are however different degrees of Tribal lands (we need more confusion here). So just because a Tribe owns it does not rule out State law. However; if the land has been placed into "Trust" with the BIA then only Federal and Tribal Laws apply so if a parcel is not "in-Trust" nor part of an established Reservation then State laws (including taxes, unless compacted differently) do apply. One thing that is standard though is that the Light Hoarse or Tribal Police, regardless of the location, are charged with protecting their Nation are deffinately not a force to be joked with.
Click to expand...

Mostly, I was thinking of reservations in this context. I would never land on reservation lands without some pretty specific written permission.

But, you're right, it can get really complex.

MTV
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
Need info on legal landing areas in Southern Idaho.
Replies
2
Views
2K
flyer
F
Bill Ingerson
Beach Landing, first off airport
Replies
4
Views
3K
raph
raph
Utah-Jay
Flying the Idaho Backcountry with a Legend
Replies
2
Views
1K
RVBottomly
RVBottomly
375handh
Idaho Pioneer - Frank Hill
Replies
5
Views
5K
Mike Oliver
M
Spyder
The long way home
Replies
3
Views
3K
Spyder
Spyder
Back
Top