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Front seat belt attachment. floor vs seat.

DENNY

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This question is for the guys that are doing aircraft recovery/repair. How many times have you seen the top of the seat ripped free from the base in a crash? How about entire seat ripped free? I think attaching the belts to the floor is a good ideal but they do get in the way of the passengers feet and can be a pain. Is there really a problem with the belts attached to the seat?
DENNY
 
Denny,

the problem isn't having the top portion of the seat rip free from the base, at least not the way you're thinking.

Go out to the airport, and take a close look at the way that seat is held in place on the seat base. The only thing that is holding that seat from moving fore and aft is that tiny little rod that drops into a hole to "lock" the seat in place.

So, if you encounter a serious deceleration, with the seat belts attached to the seat, all that's stopping you from sliding right under that instrument panel is that tiny little rod that "locks" the seat in place. Considering the forces involved it's not surprising that little rod isn't up to the job.

If, on the other hand, you've moved the seat belt attach points to the floor, your body is connected to major structure, even though the seat isn't.

Its an important safety mod, in my opinion.

MTV
 
wow...

yes only use the floor mount atlee belt attach's....

gotta remember allot of original planes(&cars) had NO SEAT BELTS!!

the seat base mount tabs on floor are usually cracked off.. throw a crash in there, with the belt mounted to upper seat and it NOT GOOD!...
 
I have the floor mounted belts. They are a pain fishing them around a passengers feet of a pilot that puts there feet up on the rudders. None pilots normally have there feet back. I plain on putting back on when I rebuild. Here are picture why. image.jpg
 

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Have seen the seat to fuselage attach tabs broken in extreme use, no crash. We have been installing the seat belt attach tabs from Atlee Dodge more straight. Saw this requested on an Alaska State Trooper rebuild bid. I also looped the belt through one of those aluminum triangular tabs mounted to the stock seat belt attach fitting to help the pilot find in when buckling up and to keep the passenger from stepping on the belt when getting in.
 
The lap belts of my 5-point are attached to the seat but I bolted the rail halves together with 2 x AN3 bolts. The seat is no longer adjustable. (I'm the only one flying it.)
 
This is a PA12 seat that broke. Even though the pilot had shoulder harness on the seat breaking allowed him to impact the instrument panel with fatal results.
P7180520.JPG
 

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Amen Mike,

In a crash, it's wiser to be attached to structure rather than trusting in those -3 bolts, at the seat base, or the adjuster rod. Haven't, personally, seen a broken seat from a crashed Cub, but I have seen broken seat rails in Cessnas. They have there belts anchored to the floor and have minimized the human damage during a crash.

Sometimes there really is a reason that 'everyone' does something like this. If you look around, most manufacturers have attached the belts to structure rather than the seat itself.

Web
 
If seat belts are attached to structure there's little chance the seat base will separate, but it wouldn't matter if it did. In any event theres little chance the seat base would separate from the seat pedestal. With seat belts attached to the floor I'd be okay sitting on a milk crate.

Look at the jump seats in the rear of a Skywagon. Almost no structure and nothing holding them down. Just two small clevis bolts pinning it to the side of the plane. Seatbelts connected to structure are the critical part of that arrangement. With track mounted front seats properly adjusted seatbelts also play a critical role.
 
Several years ago I saw Steve’s picture of the PA-12 where the seat had separated during a crash with fatal results. It really rattled me as my -12 and many cubs I have flown don’t have the belts attached to the floor. If you have the opportunity at rebuild to install the floor brackets-do it! They are a great safety mod. For everyone else, you may want to consider some safety cables attached to the seat and the frame. Like this...311D36AB-ABAE-4D37-8164-FD3EC0864854.jpeg

A minor modification that uses two 1/8 stainless cables attached to the frame on either side of the rear torque tube saddle and attached to the inside of the seat with a couple of ski tabs. Not as good as the Atlee tabs but combined with shoulder harnesses it will prevent the seat from breaking free and you going into the panel in a crash. They dont interfere with the flight controls or the passengers feet. For the planes that don’t have them, it could save your life for less than $10 and an hour of time to install. I could possibly make some “kits” if there is enough interest. Works the same on a -12 or -18.

Just an idea......
 

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Shortly after buying my Pa11 back in 1994 the front seat back cross strap broke ( while doing a loop) :yikez:. After cleaning my shorts I had to take the front seat out to repair it. I was shocked when I saw how flimsy the seat attach fittings were. I decided I wanted a better seat belt attachment then the seat itself.
This is what I have done on every Cub (J3,Pa11,18 ) that I've flown since. Easy to do in an hour, I ran the cable thru vinyl tubing so it wouldn't scratch the cross tube. When I remove my lap belts I lay them over the MC pedals and they are there when I get back in. If your Cub is covered this is an easy upgrade



Glenn
 
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Yes. Exactly like cubdriver has in his above photo. Easy mod and now the seat won’t come forward. Like I said, Atlee’s is better but this will definitely help.
 
That is how Piper mounted their original shoulder harnesses. Compresses the spine. The Husky seat is a structural part of the fuselage, everything else will be destroyed and the seat will be intact. I can see how installing the shoulder harness to the bottom of the seat would cause the seat back to bend.
 
You guys with the stock bench seat in the back of your 180...
check out the seat belt attach.
Yup, attaches to the seat itself.
Dunno if there's any good mod to rectify that,
other than jump seats with airframe mounted belts..
 
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