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Thread: Jasperfield's Javron

  1. #1

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    Jasperfield's Javron

    Here I'm beginning a thread about building my Javron cub. If I can get the photo posting figured out I'll give some details a little bit later. Bill Rusk has very kindly taken the time to help me with posting photo's. ('hope I don't disappoint). So... here goes


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    The photo is too big. I think I need to take smaller photo's with the camera.

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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasperfield View Post
    The photo is too big. I think I need to take smaller photo's with the camera.
    We like big pictures

    Glenn

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    Perfect just like it is.

    Doug

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    Larry G's Avatar
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    Nice! Are you having Jay build your wings?

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    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Congrats Jasperfield. I like the big photos too. It will be fun to watch your build.

    Thank you for taking the time to post.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

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    Kieth, Good to see this thread. You can do it and I'm looking forward to watching your build. Greg

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    Larry G: Yes, Jay's doing the wings (I think).

    Here's two photo's of the first thing I did. I bent the gascolator bracket for a Steve's Gascolator per his instructions. I don't have any type of brake or metal fabrication equipment. I wondered (and worried) about how to bend this darn thing. I used my bench vice, a couple of steel bench dogs, and two table saw slides. It turned out pretty good. It's square and didn't crack at the bends.

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    Looks 90% done!!

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    I'll tell you a little bit about me and then some about my Javron Cub (project):

    Whether you want to hear it, or not; Only, by the grace (and mostly mercy) of God do I live today. I am saved, by His grace, as any man can be. I don't live a sin-free life, yet I am forgiven. And, I have Him to help me. I have done nothing, be it thought, word, or deed to warrant the blessings He has allowed to me. All good comes from the Lord.

    I live about as far back in the southern appalachians as a person can. I don't have cell phone service, TV signals, neighbors, or regular mail. It's been that way since I was a kid. I do have internet service which comes over the ground line of the electric cable. It's called "broad-band-power-line", or BPL.. It is stable as stable can be until the power goes off.

    I began flying about 24 years ago and now fly only tailwheel airplanes. I'm not very good at it, but think I'm improving. My family is very small. I have two brothers who each live about 20 miles away. I live alone all the time.

    The Javron Cub unassembled airplane, is in my opinion, the best route to a really nice Super Cub airplane. Yes, you have to figure out how to assemble it, and you have to have a basic knowledge of aircraft assembly. At this point, I don't have all of that knowledge, but, I'll get it.

    The basic spec's of my airplane are as follows: Primed & painted fuselage, 15 rib wing, round wing tips, flaps extended to fuselage, ECI O-340 engine w/low compression pistons, dual PMags, B&C 20 amp rear-mounted alternator, conical thrust-line non swing-out mount, 3" extended gear w/ 1.25" axles, standard baggage compartment w/ right-side lower door, set-up for extended baggage... but not installed, standard round left rear window, PTT on throttles, Catto prop, Vetterman ( I think) exhaust, counter-weight brackets at tail of fuselage, right-hand door only, rear float attach brackets (only), two 18 gallon tanks, die-spring main gear, upper interior fabric, lower interior aluminum panels, square air filter, front & rear brake pedals, Grove brakes & components, offset flap lever, ABI 3200 tailwheel, MicroAir vortex generators, Pilot inertia-reel belt, passenger adjustable belt, light-weight plywood floorboards (if there is such a thing),

    Instruments: I don't know what to do. I like conventional instruments... maybe with an Aspen unit. I just don't know.

    My type of flying is usually solo, local within 50-75 miles. I don't have anywhere to go or anyone to go see. I don't ever carry any baggage other than Oil, etc. Currently I have a 2012 Legend Cub. I've had two Stearmans, a Monocoupe, C-182, Aerobat, CubCrafters PA-18, PA-12 (which I should have kept), J-3, and so forth. The Legend Cub is the best of them all. The Stearmans ruined my ability to flare and land.

    I want to thank all of y'all who've contributed to this forum. For me, the information available and this (I hate to use this word) community is outstanding. Bill Rusk, Mike Scup, Steve Pierce, Mvivion, the fellow down in middle TN, etc., have been way more than helpful. I appreciate all of you people and hope that I may be able to contribute as you, and others have.

    Thanks, fellows,
    Jasperfield

    I'm thinking the finish will be Ceconite & dope... but, I'm a long way from that.

  11. #11
    Bonanza32GF's Avatar
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    Jasperfield,
    You will do great!

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    Thanks Fellows!

    I'm trying to determine a sequence for building and assembling the airplane. I've studied several of your posts and viewed photo's to help do this, and they have helped.

    I'm now looking for some dimensions, or relativities to attach the Vertical Fin to the fuselage. I can now fit my Vertical Fin (VF) into the tail post, at the rear, and into the clamp at the Jack Screw Tower at the front. However; Where do I drill the holes to install the bolts into the VF. Is there some reference to indicate the vertical position of the VF with respect to the tail post & Jack Screw Tower clamp? Where do I drill the holes? Without some reference I could install the VF cocked, incorrectly, front-to-rear. How do I do this? I've looked at all posts herein relative. I have the Northland CD: Piper Dwg 21346 is not to to be found.

    If I use the bushing positions of the "fixed-in-position" tail post to help "vertically" align the bushings of the VF, as inserted down into the tail post, will that rear alignment position the front tube of the VF at the appropriate depth down into the Jack Screw Tower Clamp sufficient to drill said front tube and bolt it into position?

    I can align the VF bushing holes with those of the rudder to get a "straight" alignment between the two sets of bushings; and let that alignment determine the position of the front post of the VF as inserted into the Jack Screw Clamp. Is this how it is correctly done?

    Thanks!

  13. #13
    Larry G's Avatar
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    If you go to www.supercub.com backcountry super cubs you will find a Backcountry Standard Super Cub PA-18 Build Manual in builders support that will help you.

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    Thank you, Larry.

    I have that manual, but it does not address vertical fin installation to any degree.

  15. #15
    Larry G's Avatar
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    Go to that builders support and down to the paragraph that says here is a link click on it on page 31 and 32 is what you want.


    Backcountry Standard Super Cub PA-18 Build Manual


    Here is an on-line version of our original Backcountry (standard) PA-18 build manual. Note: This is our original standard, traditional, PA-18 kit--not the current "Backcountry Super Cub" kit manual. This is a large file, 9 mb. Here is a link.

  16. #16

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    http://www.supercub.com/documents/PA...t%202009v5.pdf Go with there page number, not the one on the computer. There MANUAL page number is 31 like Larry said.

  17. #17

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    Thanks, Larry & Doug,

    I've read pp. 3o-33 several times, and last night I didn't make the association. I guess I was too tired, ignorant, or both. Those pages describe exactly what I was looking for. Thank You. Two months ago I printed out the Backcountry manual and have used it as my primary guide. It is very useful.

    Larry, I looked at your project photo's and saw a really nice airplane coming together.

    Doug, did I meet you at Univair back in September of 2005?

  18. #18
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    It should fit without being in bind and the counter balance on the rudder should have an even gap with the top of the vertical when in the proper location. I could get a dimension off of a stock Super Cub if needed.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  19. #19
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    It should fit without being in bind and the counter balance on the rudder should have an even gap with the top of the vertical when in the proper location. I could get a dimension off of a stock Super Cub if needed.
    Temporarily hang the rudder in place with the fin to make the entire assembly. Clamp the aft fin tube parallel to the rudder spar. Then, posistion the front fin attachment as Steve describes with the even gap. Drill the hole. That is the correct place. This is not a Swiss watch. While it is good to pay attention to doing the process correctly, it is only a Cub. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting that it is OK to be sloppy.

    Now would be a good time to address the twist/offset of the fin to the left for P-factor considerations. This is addressed in older posts here.
    N1PA

  20. #20

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    Yep Keith i still owe ya.

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    I didn't know if that was you or not. I'm sure glad to be back in touch. Send me an email with your number and I'll call you and we'll catch up.

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    I'm beginning to work on fuel lines and have an AC Spruce fuel valve pn. 6749. It's a left-right-off valve that I'm modifying to work as a left-right-both-off valve per the directions in Backcountry Super Cub's manual. The instructions are to drill an additional hole in the valve's plastic barrel using a 19/64" bit and then up-drill that single hole with a 3/8" bit.

    My concern is this: The existing two factory holes are 19/64" diameter. I have drilled the new hole, as directed, at that 19/64" diameter. If I go ahead and up-drill this new hole to 3/8" diameter it will be quite a bit larger than the other two holes, AND by going up to 3/8" it will decrease the web (distance) between the new hole and an existing hole in the plastic barrel substantially and I'll have two 19/64" holes and the new 3/8" hole. I am following the manual's directions as they are written, but have not drilled up to 3/8" yet.

    What do y'all think?

  23. #23
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I found a penciled in note in my manual. The Backcountry manual is in error. The final drill should be 5/16" not 3/8". 5/16" = 20/64", just 1/64" larger than the original drilling. The 19/64" drill is used to make the initial hole while using the existing hole as a drill guide. Then the 5/16" is used to finish.

    That is what I did and it feeds a I0-360 with no problems.
    N1PA

  24. #24

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    That's what I needed to hear. Thank you.

  25. #25

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    Thread creep-Jasperfield,
    why is the Legend Cub the best of them all? I am picking one up on Tuesday and wanted your thoughts.
    Ed

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    Relative to Cub-type airplanes, and for fun-flying... not working-flying, it will take-off very short and climb at better than factory numbers. I fly mine with no passenger and no baggage. It will fly quite slowly and land slower than I'm willing to try. It is much more stable than a J-3, it'll do hard slips predictably, it trims and holds trim easily. It is in all practicalities a new, early-model Super Cub without flaps. Mine has 8:00 X 6:00 tires an ABW 3200 tailwheel, two 20 gallon wing tanks, on-both-off fuel valve, cabin heat, panel mounted GPS, radio, transponder, ADI, right-side door only, swing-up windows both sides, etc. The Sensenich ground-adjustable composite prop is so smooth you never think of it. You can fly from either seat with full controls and PTT or voice activated PS1200 intercom. Nothing rattles, squeaks, deforms, or so forth. It is very well built with few proprietary parts. My only complaint is whenever I fly with full fuel and trim full nose up for landing it'll only trim to 60, so as I approach the fence I'm holding a bit of back stick. With a passenger or about 30 lbs. in the back seat or baggage area it'll trim slower. The fabric is Ceconite with Stargloss and it is textbook flawless. I can't think of anything I'd add to it or remove from it. I'm completely happy with it. At 2700 RPM and 3500 MSL it'll cruise at 94 with the prop set to mid-pitch. Set to cruise pitch it'll fly +/_ 105. It makes me feel like I'm a better pilot than I am. The Continental O-200D engine is a whole 'nother animal from the other O-200s. My airplane's empty weight is 826.

    I've never flown an airplane I didn't like and most of the time this airplane doesn't get ahead of me. I don't have anywhere to go, but I like to push & pull the levers, knobs, and pedals and this airplane responds well to that. On Tuesday you'll find that you have more airplane than you were expecting. There'll be no lookin' back.

  27. #27
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasperfield View Post
    Relative to Cub-type airplanes, and for fun-flying... not working-flying, it will take-off very short and climb at better than factory numbers. I fly mine with no passenger and no baggage. It will fly quite slowly and land slower than I'm willing to try. It is much more stable than a J-3, it'll do hard slips predictably, it trims and holds trim easily. It is in all practicalities a new, early-model Super Cub without flaps. Mine has 8:00 X 6:00 tires an ABW 3200 tailwheel, two 20 gallon wing tanks, on-both-off fuel valve, cabin heat, panel mounted GPS, radio, transponder, ADI, right-side door only, swing-up windows both sides, etc. The Sensenich ground-adjustable composite prop is so smooth you never think of it. You can fly from either seat with full controls and PTT or voice activated PS1200 intercom. Nothing rattles, squeaks, deforms, or so forth. It is very well built with few proprietary parts. My only complaint is whenever I fly with full fuel and trim full nose up for landing it'll only trim to 60, so as I approach the fence I'm holding a bit of back stick. With a passenger or about 30 lbs. in the back seat or baggage area it'll trim slower. The fabric is Ceconite with Stargloss and it is textbook flawless. I can't think of anything I'd add to it or remove from it. I'm completely happy with it. At 2700 RPM and 3500 MSL it'll cruise at 94 with the prop set to mid-pitch. Set to cruise pitch it'll fly +/_ 105. It makes me feel like I'm a better pilot than I am. The Continental O-200D engine is a whole 'nother animal from the other O-200s. My airplane's empty weight is 826..
    Sounds like every pa11 ( 4 ) I've flown but your 100 lbs heavier.

    Glenn

  28. #28

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    Here are some photo's of my ECI O-340 that Jay DeRosier, at Javron Aviation, has just finished assembling and painting. I'm excited.
    I got the paint from Mobile Paint Co. They make Continental Motors' paint and they would sell to me. The engine is painted with Continental part no. 626531-3, which is Mobile Paint's no. 58-DZ-1-01 "Continental Gold". It's a "flat paint" which I like. It's much cheaper to buy from Mobile.

    Jay has just finished building an engine test cell with all the bells & whistles and will run this engine and a couple of others in the next day or two.

    Last edited by Jasperfield; 06-07-2015 at 07:36 PM.

  29. #29
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Have y'all changed something on the plug on the alternator and the firewall. The ones I have worked on had an interference issue.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  30. #30
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Wow, man that is a good looking engine. Sweet!!! Hate to cover that baby up. Thanks for the update.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Have y'all changed something on the plug on the alternator and the firewall. The ones I have worked on had an interference issue.
    Hey Steve,

    No we haven't. I spoke with B&C about it and they think it'll fit. I know Ed Doyle is running one on his airplane and I spoke with him about it. It's going to be close, but hope it's not too close. Tell me what you know.

    Look at thread titled "B & C 20 amp alternator", post 16

    Also, see thread "Gear-Driven Alternator Clearance Questions"
    Last edited by Jasperfield; 06-07-2015 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Addendum to information

  32. #32

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    Can you tell us any more about his test cell, would be nice to have an engine run before install, if its an easy to do deal?

  33. #33
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    We didn't use the plug and installed two spade connectors. Figured someone could come up with a plug going into the side instead of the back.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  34. #34
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    We didn't use the plug and installed two spade connectors. Figured someone could come up with a plug going into the side instead of the back.
    That's with the plane power 30amp. Internally regulated. B&c is shorter and uses an external regulator

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    Hey Doug,

    I haven't seen it but Jay spoke with me about it. It will measure all the significant parameters necessary to determine what's happening during the run-in. It's got loads of cooling capacity. He does plan on doing engine run-ins for other people. Give him a call, he'd be glad to tell you about it. I'm going up there soon and will take some photo's and get more detailed information on it which I will post here.

    It's newer than this one.

    Last edited by Jasperfield; 06-07-2015 at 09:15 PM.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    We didn't use the plug and installed two spade connectors. Figured someone could come up with a plug going into the side instead of the back.
    My alternator is an SD-20 (the same alternator as their certified model no. BC410-H). The plug comes out of the side and near the back end.

  37. #37

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    I need to shorten this fuel valve stem by about 5/8". The valve is made by Anderson Brass Co. (model no. 210C-L) and sold as pn. 6749 by Aircraft Spruce. The plastic valve body is attached to the brass stem via a small pin which is driven (I think) through the plastic body and through the brass stem. I've half-way tried to drive the pin on through the stem to release the plastic body, but am hesitant.

    I need to remove the plastic body in order to cut off 5/8" of the bottom of the stem and then re-drill it and re-install the valve body and pin. Alternately, I could cut off 5/8" of the handle end of the stem, drill, tap, and countersink for the handle screw, and spot-flatten for the handle. I don't want to have to do it this way. What do y'all suggest?

    Last edited by Jasperfield; 06-18-2015 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Corrected valve manufacturer

  38. #38

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    Can you clamp the shaft in a press without marring it and using a small punch to press the pin out. Then you will also need to drill the hole centered again, sometimes that sucks. OR, send itt to Jay telling him what you want done and wait for it to return in the mail exactly how you want it. It looks like you could support the shaft underneath right up next to the pin if your able to hold the rest of the shaft? And I THINK it would press out ok? I still like pressing instead of beating.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 06-17-2015 at 11:45 PM.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    Can you clamp the shaft in a press without marring it and using a small punch press the pin out. Then you will also need to drill the hole centered again, sometimes that sucks.
    Hey Doug,
    The holes in the plastic body, where the pin travels, are a loose fit… the plastic is attached to the stem only by its contact with the holes. I'm thinking I can drive the pin out, but might ruin it if it's an interference fit with the stem. It might even be threaded into the stem, I can't see down into it well enough to tell.

    If I can get it out without damage I can cut it off and do a pretty good job re-drilling. If all else fails I can get a new valve from ACS and rob the stem & body from it to try again. I've already modified this valve by drilling an extra hole for a "both" fuel flow option and I've filed off the back end of the brass housing so it'd fit inside the fabric.

  40. #40
    irishfield's Avatar
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    I would imagine the pin is simply splined on the mid section that is in the shaft.

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