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Thread: Wirlwind STOL ground adjustable propeller

  1. #1

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    Wirlwind STOL ground adjustable propeller

    Anyone flying with one? Pros/Cons? I am looking at purchasing one for my experimental 0-320 Pacer.

  2. #2
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Randy Goza is a big proponent of that prop. Perhaps Wayne Mackey as well.

    You will probably see it at Valdez. Hopefully someone else will chime in

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

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    Thanks Bill! I hope so too!

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I have one on my Cub on floats. It is a great well built prop. I like the ability to fine tune the blade angle. I have settled on an intermediate setting which gives very good take off, climb and cruise performance. It is easy to change the blade angle for what ever purpose you desire. The only negative is, that at 44 pounds with carbon spinner, it is heavy by Bill's standards. A worthwhile sacrifice.
    N1PA

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    44lbs is definitely not the 18lbs it says on the website..... Is that 18lbs per blade? I thought these carbon props are supposed to be light? Also when it comes to the spinner is the 12" and 13" referring to the diameter or the length of the spinner?

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    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Very Blessed.
    Likes CamTom12 liked this post

  7. #7
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    Trouble is that there are two different prop companies with the name Whirlwind. This is the other one: http://whirlwindpropellers.com/aircr...ade-propeller/

    Mine is from Bill's link.

    This is another ground adjustable for a O-320: http://www.sensenich.com/products/item/92
    I don't know anything about it. Long time company though.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 05-09-2014 at 11:44 AM.
    N1PA

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    I was looking at the whirlwind 78" STOL propeller they claim it only weighs 18lbs...

  9. #9
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    That is a considerable difference in weight. I think that you should question them about this difference. Both props have aluminum hubs and carbon fiber blades. Mine has a different adjustment method which could increase the weight. But 26 pounds?
    N1PA

  10. #10
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Two different props. Different hubs.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  11. #11
    brown bear's Avatar
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    I have been flying the WW propeller 78" , 18# prop for a year now on a 0320 . Great prop and I like being able to set it for my mission but it takes 20 minutes to adjust so not as handy as the other prop from WW aviation.
    Doug
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  12. #12

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    brown bear what does the 78" prop weigh? Does it weigh the 18lbs as stated on their website?

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    brown bear's Avatar
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    "brown bear what does the 78" prop weigh? Does it weigh the 18lbs as stated on their website?"

    Yes I think 18 lbs# is including bolts.
    Doug

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    I just got confirmation from Whirlwind that the 78" STOL prop is indeed 18lbs. So how much of an increase does this propeller give in rate of climb and cruise speed? How much does the takeoff distance decrease? Is fuel burn decreased?
    Last edited by cook11; 05-09-2014 at 07:05 PM.
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  15. #15
    DW's Avatar
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    20 minutes to change pitch is a bit of a deterrent.

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    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    That is not the prop that all the STOL guys like Peppard, Goza, Mackey etc are using. They are using the heavier 44 pound version by the Ohio Whirl Wind company and swear by it. It takes less than 1 minute to change the pitch on the heavier prop and it can be converted to a full constant speed by the factory if you so desire in the future. I do not know of any SC guys using the light prop. I think it leans toward the Rotax group, and I would be concerned about its durability in the larger SC engines especially 180hp and above. I don't think you will get the answers to your questions here cause I don't think anyone is using it. My opinion only.

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 05-09-2014 at 08:25 PM.
    Very Blessed.

  17. #17
    marcusofcotton's Avatar
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    Check out the service letters for the 18# version from California. Having to inspect for cracks every 10 hours isn't a confidence builder.

    Mark J
    Practicing open cockpit extremism

  18. #18
    brown bear's Avatar
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    Whirlwind aviation and whirlwind propellers.
    2 deferent companies . Whirlwind propellers , which mine is {"GA200L 78" & 18lbs and 20 min. adjust time} and whirlwind aviation like Goza used ? [STOL 210G , &44 lbs and FAST adjust time], but they used to be one company and then split.
    WW aviation makes certified props, mostly constant speeds but also make the VERY good ground adjustable STOL G210 , & WW propeller makes only exp. props none of which are constant speed so a lighter hub but can not be converted to a constant speed.
    WW propeller does make props for 912s and all kinds of exp , airboats & even make blades for the M14P Russian radial , if they can make a blade that hold up to these beast I am not worried on my 0320 . If I understand it right WW propeller still makes the blades for WW aviation ? BUT my blades are NOT the same design as the STOL G210 that Goza and others like so well.
    The GA200L 78 which I have is made for 0320s & 0360 up 180hp . It is not as light as a Cato but is adjustable.
    The 20 min. adjust time " is " a draw back for sure . BUT 26 lbs lighter than the faster adj. G210 by WW aviation is a big deal also for my plane.
    I have a prop I can spin way up for take off and climb & in 20mins a prop I can cruse to Alaska from Kansas. Works for me!
    I can not say how it compares to any of the props that every one is running on super cubs as I have not tried them, but would like to. It would be fun to do some pull tests with different props but the same plane .
    Doug

  19. #19
    brown bear's Avatar
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    " Check out the service letters for the 18# version from California. Having to inspect for cracks every 10 hours isn't a confidence builder.
    Mark J"
    I was told by Jim of WW propellers when I bought mine that early on they had had one hub crack so the service letter but that it does not apply for current production hubs. I only have a little over 100 hours on mine so we'll see in a few years.
    Doug

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    I contacted sensenich regarding there composite ground adjustable. The current one offered is not recommended for Cubs and Pacer styled aircraft. But......within the next six months they will have blades that will suit our airframes.

  21. #21
    brown bear's Avatar
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    I too have been watching for sensenich to come out with a prop for us, I'd love to try it when it comes out.
    Doug

  22. #22
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I don't think that the time element of changing the pitch should greatly influence your decision of which prop to buy. Once you descide which blade angle you prefer, you will seldom change the pitch again. I do like my 200G and when testing to determine blade angle performance differences, I did make several flights in a short time span with blade angle changes. In a couple of hours I ran through the entire blade angle range 1/2 degree at a time. You will not do that with the 20 minute adjustment. But once you have determined which angle you like the best, the time element will not be important.
    N1PA

  23. #23

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    I just put one of these, the 18 pounders,on and am trying it out. W/o a spinner a pitch change on my cub is a bit over 10 mins. Sky wagon and b.bear, what was the difference in cruise speeds going from your props max take off (flat) to max cruise settings? Do you have a mp gage? I'm working on the best takeoff pitch right now.

  24. #24
    DW's Avatar
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    How do they compare in cost ...I can't find a price.

  25. #25
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Full throttle 2700 rpm, straight and level, 180 hp on floats. speed varied between 110 mph and 129 mph.
    Cruise speed at 2400 rpm, manifold press 19.0"-25.0", speed 97 mph to 112 mph.
    Full throttle climb at 70 mph, 1400 ft/min to 1150 ft/min.
    This was done at a weight of 1910 pounds and a CG of 17.49".
    The blade angle varied between 13.0 to 16.5 degrees.
    I use a setting in the middle for every day flying.

    Mine is the Whirl Wind Aviation 200G 77" diameter.
    http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/STOLGseries.asp
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 05-10-2014 at 12:23 PM.
    N1PA

  26. #26

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    This is what I was quoted on the 18lbs propeller
    Retail Pricing::


    GA200L-78 Propeller: $2,950 USD


    Optional Items::


    Composite 12" Spinner: $356 USD


    Composite 13" Spinner: $454 USD

  27. #27

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    I am curious to know what a ground adjustable 2 or 3 blade MT propeller costs?

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by cook11 View Post
    44lbs is definitely not the 18lbs it says on the website..... Is that 18lbs per blade? I thought these carbon props are supposed to be light? Also when it comes to the spinner is the 12" and 13" referring to the diameter or the length of the spinner?


    Two different props. I have the 18 pounder. The 44 lb. one is twice as much $ and is heavier because of the hub, but is much easier to adjust. Spinner measurement is diameter.

  29. #29
    5 Rivers's Avatar
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    We've beat this up before. Get what's best for your application.
    Whirl Wind Aviation Austinburg, OHIO http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/index.asp
    Whirl Wind Propeller El Cajon, CA http://whirlwindpropellers.com/aircraft/
    Two separate companies, two separate props.
    Ground adjustable is a option for those that can not go constant speed or do not want to go constant speed yet have more flexibility than a fixed pitch prop.
    I'm personally using the Whirl Wind Aviation 200A CONSTANT SPEED.
    Randy

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by brown bear View Post
    I have been flying the WW propeller 78" , 18# prop for a year now on a 0320 . Great prop and I like being able to set it for my mission but it takes 20 minutes to adjust so not as handy as the other prop from WW aviation.
    Doug


    I just got one & have been trying different settings on my 0-360 . What settings do you use? Do you use a manifold pressure gauge? At 13 deg. I get 2700 rpm static. in flight 2400 rpm 21.5 in. manifold pres. At 18 deg. I get 2300 rpm static & can't get 2400 rpm at all in flight & manifold pressure is way over square. In flight 2200 rpm, 27 in. man. pres. 2100 rpm 24 in. man. pres. 2000 rpm 24 in. man. pres. I am real happy with performance on the flat side. on the steep side I definitely take longer to get off, 200 ft. or so. I get 10 mph more speed.

  31. #31
    brown bear's Avatar
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    Alaska bush flyer
    I have mine on a 0320 160 hp . My plane is not a supercub so I am not sure how much my numbers will help.
    I have tried from 12 deg. to 17 deg
    At 17deg I only got 2140 static so did not fly it
    @ 12 deg I don't remember the static but I get 2650 on take off roll , poor cruise & great take off.
    @ 14 .8 , I get red line at WOT in level flight and almost 15 mph faster cruise that when @ 12 deg ;take off is of course not as good @14.8

    Doug

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    lvgbr's Avatar
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    Hi. How many degrees for prop angle do you recommend? GA200L-82 Propeller with O320 A2B Lyc engine? (EFII single electronic ignition system). Tks

  33. #33
    brown bear's Avatar
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    Lvgbr
    I am of no help on the 82 inch prop , mine is 78" . I did see where they came out with the longer blads and would love to try them.
    Doug

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cook11 View Post
    I contacted sensenich regarding there composite ground adjustable. The current one offered is not recommended for Cubs and Pacer styled aircraft. But......within the next six months they will have blades that will suit our airframes.
    A guy at my airport has an O-200 powered legend Cub and I believe it has the Sensenich ground-adjustable prop. Don't know the cruise speed but it sure looks like it works well for STOL.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  35. #35
    5 Rivers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvgbr View Post
    Hi. How many degrees for prop angle do you recommend? GA200L-82 Propeller with O320 A2B Lyc engine? (EFII single electronic ignition system). Tks
    We have a Whirl Wind Propellers 82" GA200L-STOL on a O-375 that likes the 12.5 - 13.5 degree pitch setting.

  36. #36
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    A guy at my airport has an O-200 powered legend Cub and I believe it has the Sensenich ground-adjustable prop. Don't know the cruise speed but it sure looks like it works well for STOL.
    I have the same prop on my EX 0200 SC. With a 52 pitch and 2350 static it's off in under 275' and still climbs well, 700 FPM? and cruises at 100 mph at 2450, WOT is 2650 at 111 mph.
    46 pitch 2550 static it's off under 200' and ROC about 1000 FPM, 2450 cruise is 86 mph and WOT is 2775 at 97 mph.
    I think I can squeak 3 more mph with a 54 pitch cartridge.

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 08-31-2015 at 01:58 PM.

  37. #37

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    WhirlWind Propellers GA200L-STOL Ground-Adjustable Propeller

    I was contacted by somebody who saw this thread, and they asked me if I could clear up some questions. I’ll give a few quick answers here, and then if there are more questions, please feel welcome to call or email me directly, or post them up here in the forum.

    First, Whirl Wind has two divisions. Whirl Wind Aviation (WWA) is our constant-speed propeller division, and Whirl Wind Propellers Corporation (WWPC) is our ground-adjustable propeller division. All propellers from WWA and WWPC are experimental category only.

    WWPC offers several engine specific ground-adjustable propeller options for both LSA and STOL type aircraft. For Super Cub type aircraft powered by Lycoming 320 / 360 (based) engines, we offer the GA200L-STOL ground-adjustable propeller. The GA200L-STOL is available in diameters from 82” down to 76”, with bolt sizes of ˝”, 7/16”, or 3/8”

    You can view the GA200L-STOL propeller on our website here, but I am not able to post the link in this thread for some reason.

    The price of the GA200L-STOL in any of the above diameters is currently $2950 USD (includes the hub, blades and hardware). We offer an optional 12” Cub style spinner that is trimmed, fitted, and ready to fly. The 12” spinner comes in either a white primer coat, ready for paint $335 USD or a gloss carbon finish $356. Lead-times runs about 1 week.

    WWA offers many great constant-speed propeller options, as well as one ground-adjustable option for Lycoming 360 powered STOL type aircraft, the 200G and the 210G. These are based on the constant-speed propeller hub.


    Sincerely,
    -Patti
    Whirl Wind Propellers
    "Leaders in Propeller Performance Technology"
    619-562-3725




    Click image for larger version. 

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  38. #38
    lvgbr's Avatar
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    Patty
    I have a GA200L-82 Propeller with O320 A2B Lyc engine and EFII single electronic ignition system.
    WWPC instructions manual recomend 20-24 degree blade pitch for RVs airplanes but not for Cubs.
    With the brakes on, static full throttle rpm should be 2500-2600 for supercubs, and shouldn´t overspeed the Propeller – Max RPM 2700
    In my case, how many degrees do you recomend to better performance with my power configuration?
    Could you share in this forum, other users experience with WWPC stol prop?
    Tks
    FD from Argentina, SA

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by lvgbr View Post
    Patty
    I have a GA200L-82 Propeller with O320 A2B Lyc engine and EFII single electronic ignition system.
    WWPC instructions manual recomend 20-24 degree blade pitch for RVs airplanes but not for Cubs.
    With the brakes on, static full throttle rpm should be 2500-2600 for supercubs, and shouldn´t overspeed the Propeller – Max RPM 2700
    In my case, how many degrees do you recomend to better performance with my power configuration?
    Could you share in this forum, other users experience with WWPC stol prop?
    Tks
    FD from Argentina, SA
    Hello Ivgbr,

    For an O-320 engine and the 82" GA200L-STOL propeller, the blade angle should be approximately 14 to 15 degrees, using the pitch paddle tool supplied with the propeller. Every engine is a little different, but this is a good starting angle.

    Sincerely,
    Patti

  40. #40
    lvgbr's Avatar
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    Tks a lot Patti.

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