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Thread: Support the Third Class Medical Legislation

  1. #41
    DesperadoPilot's Avatar
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    Same thing from Sen. John Cornyn in Texas. Very generic reply, not leaning one way or the other. Almost like a form-letter. Said he was not on the aviation caucaus, but would keep my opinion in mind. Between the lines it appeared as if he couldn't care less, whether it went one way or the other.

  2. #42
    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesperadoPilot View Post
    Same thing from Sen. John Cornyn in Texas. Very generic reply, not leaning one way or the other. Almost like a form-letter. Said he was not on the aviation caucaus, but would keep my opinion in mind. Between the lines it appeared as if he couldn't care less, whether it went one way or the other.
    I think you misread his response. I received it as well:

    "... S. 2103 was referred to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. Although I am not a member of that committee, as member of the General Aviation Caucus, you may be certain that I will keep your views in mind should S. 2103 or other relevant legislation be considered during the 113th Congress. ..."
    Phil Whittemore

  3. #43

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    Somewhere in discussion of HR3708 somebody asked what the chances were of passage. Statistics don't favor success. Seek out and communicate with the subcommittee members who control this bill.

    Prognosis. 4% chance of being enacted. This bill has a 18% chance of getting past committee first. Only 11% of bills made it past committee and only about 3% were enacted in 2011–2013. [show factors | methodology]
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr3708
    Last edited by sierra bravo; 03-29-2014 at 10:06 AM.

  4. #44
    marcusofcotton's Avatar
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    Many of our members have senators or congressmen that are sitting on the corresponding subcommittee, even if they're not on the subcommittee, push your representatives to encourage their colleagues to support!

    Mark J
    Practicing open cockpit extremism

  5. #45

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  6. #46
    JP's Avatar
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    My guy still has it wrong...I'll have to write again and straighten him out:

    Dear Jeffrey,
    Medical fitness regulations for general aviation pilots should adequately protect pilots, their passengers, and the general population. The General Aviation Pilot Protection Act, which is currently under consideration by the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, seeks to relax current Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) medical certification requirements for general aviation pilots to such a degree that I cannot support it in its present form.

    I think that a middle ground exists between the current FAA requirements and the driver's license standard that the General Aviation Pilot Protection Act would institute. Currently, general aviation pilots must obtain a Third Class Medical Certificate by passing a physical administered by a physician certified as an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME). The scarcity of AMEs enables them to charge high prices for their services and often places an extra burden on those general aviation pilots who must travel a great distance to reach the nearest AME's office.

    FAA regulations specify physical and mental fitness standards that pilots seeking a Third Class Medical Certificate must meet. Most of these standards mandate that a pilot be free of certain medical conditions. I believe that doctors who complete Third Class Medical Certificates should have a thorough knowledge of their patients' histories in order to best evaluate whether or not their patients exhibit signs of certain proscribed conditions. Internal and family physicians have the patient knowledge, familiarity, and accessibility necessary to most effectively render Third Class Medical Certificate decisions. So, I would support a bill that enables internal and family physicians – whether or not they hold an AME certification – to complete Third Class Medical Certificates.

    I cannot support the General Aviation Pilot Protection Act in its current form because I think that the driver's license standard that it specifies does not adequately protect pilots, their passengers, and the general population. I am open, though, to discussing the system that I propose above with the Act's authors as a potential improvement to their bill. Please be in touch as this issue develops.

    Best Regards,

    ANGUS S. KING, JR.
    United States Senator
    I am not able to read or respond to replies to this address. If you would like to be in contact with me further, please do not reply to this message, but instead go to http://www.king.senate.gov/contact. And, if you're ever in Washington D.C. when the Senate is in session, please stop by my Capitol Coffee hour from 9-10 AM on Wednesdays in Dirksen 359. Thanks, Angus.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  7. #47
    dave's Avatar
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    Dave, your letters are on the way!

    Your email to Rep. Jerry McNerney (CA-9) sent!
    Your email to Sen. Barbara Boxer (D CA) sent!
    Your email to Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D CA) sent!

    You have taken action on "Support the General Aviation Pilot Protection Act"
    Physics always bats last.

  8. #48
    JP's Avatar
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    My quick response:

    Sir:


    You kindly and thoughtfully responded to my inquiry regarding the 3rd Class Medical proposal for recreational flying. I appreciate your inability to support the legislation in its proposed form due to your conclusion that recreational pilots (and the general populace) are not protected by using he driver's license standard to assess pilot health.


    I respectfully urge you to re-think this position as it has a significant flaw.


    Your legitimate concern is, of course, that the poor screaming passenger will die an unpleasant death when a private pilot conks out due to a sudden incapacitating event like a heart attack.


    The reality is that such instances are a statistical rarity. In fact, the percentage of private (non-commercial) pilots in the general population is very, very small. There are approximately 195,000 private pilots in the U.S and not all of them are active.


    Oddly enough, when a private pilot suffers an incapacitating event the outcome is generally pretty good when a passenger takes over. Again, the number of events in any given year across the entire pilot population (private and commercial, which numbers approximately 600,000) can be counted on one hand.


    The unfortunate reality is that deaths and injuries from incapacitating events that occur to drivers of automobiles and the unfortunate passengers, bystanders, etc. occur on an almost daily basis.


    By your logic, what we should really be doing is applying third-class medical standards to licensed drivers. That's where the lack of heightened medical standards is killing people and endangering the general public on a daily basis. I will, of course, eat my hat the day the Congress of the United States directs the promulgation of such a standard as it is simply not a political reality to restrict millions of drivers and remove their privilege to drive about and kill and maim.


    Ok, so what the heck does this mean for business in Maine? Let me give you one example. A popular flying service based near a wilderness wishes to offer outdoor adventure flying on floats, skis and wheels for private pilots. It's upscale, lucrative adventure based tourism at its best. Unfortunately, many of the potential clients have given up battling the FAA bureaucracy on a medical and many of the aircraft used for such endeavors don't fall in the light sport plane category. Slightly expanding the category will open up a tremendous amount of business in Maine and across the country for pilots in the 195,000 returning--safely--to the cockpit.


    I appreciate your hearing me out on this matter and respectfully request that you read some more and reconsider your position. Again, you are concerned about a statistical improbability that is dwarfed by the actual statistics of the freely driving public menace.


    Finally, on an editorial matter, I deal with the FAA and DOT often and note the following with regard to how they treat people and companies that are working diligently to follow the rules and make a living: the FAA isn't happy unless you are extremely unhappy. The DOT and FAA regulatory interpretation and enforcement arms bring a whole new meaning to that quaint "arbitrary and capricious" standard that gets bantered about in administrative law classes back at law school. That will be the topic of our next discussion.


    Best Regards,


    Jeff Russell
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  9. #49
    Scouter's Avatar
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    I got the same exact letter JP. Go figggr

    Jim

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
    I got the same exact letter JP. Go figggr

    Jim
    Staffer...
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  11. #51

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    J.P. I like Scouter got the same letter and was about to post. From the meetings I have been involved with him I thought he was a more open and understanding guy (He wanted to put the wind towers here in town, and did). You can't let some old guy or young with a medical issue the FAA deems unsafe fly a plane but you can load up a bus full of people and cruise down a congested freeway at 70 mph, doesn't make any sense to me. J.P. I'm sending a reply to King saying I 2nd Jeff Russell's reply and will vote for him when he runs against you .

  12. #52
    JP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douten View Post
    J.P. I like Scouter got the same letter and was about to post. From the meetings I have been involved with him I thought he was a more open and understanding guy (He wanted to put the wind towers here in town, and did). You can't let some old guy or young with a medical issue the FAA deems unsafe fly a plane but you can load up a bus full of people and cruise down a congested freeway at 70 mph, doesn't make any sense to me. J.P. I'm sending a reply to King saying I 2nd Jeff Russell's reply and will vote for him when he runs against you .
    I've had the pleasure of knowing him for years. King is a closet moderate who, unfortunately, has a few staffers from the Left side of the spectrum who believe that government exists to protect people from themselves and that redistribution makes things "fair". Their political power and votes come from slavish adherence to this philosophy. King has been known to change his mind when confronted by facts and logic (see, for example, his evolution on gun control) and it would be nice if we could get a bit of face time with him to discuss this. At minimum he should attend one of our fly ins.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  13. #53
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Isn't it interesting, how the perception of a politician is changed, when one compares media information to that of someone who actually knows the individual? This gives me some hope that JP can cause King to change his view, from that which one of his staffers wrote. Just perhaps, he will vote correctly when the time comes?
    N1PA

  14. #54
    cubamigo's Avatar
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    I got the same letter JP.

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    That some will disagree should come as no surprise. The House bill now has 98 co-sponsors and the Senate version has 10. Co-sponsorship continues to grow. Keep the effort going by contacting your representatives who haven't signed on and thanking those who have. Momentum is important whether the bills make it out of committee or the FAA offers a compromise to fend off a confessional action. Either is better than what we have now.
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr3708

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Isn't it interesting, how the perception of a politician is changed, when one compares media information to that of someone who actually knows the individual? This gives me some hope that JP can cause King to change his view, from that which one of his staffers wrote. Just perhaps, he will vote correctly when the time comes?
    I hate to say this but do a little research on him. I did a quick internet search and found what big programs he has recently voted for. My belief is this is a "But cars don't fall from the sky." or "What about the doctor jobs?" guy, not a "What, no facts to support continuing this law? Then let's get rid of it" guy.

    There should not need to be any complicated argument given to a politician on this. No compromises, no excuses, nothing is needed but the statement of our rights based on our constitution (the governments ONLY franchise to govern us. It should read thus: " A recent, detailed, 10 year study of pilots with 3rd class medicals verses a population of "sport pilots" flying with an automobile drivers license as evidence of physical fitness to pilot an aircraft, has turned up NO statistical difference in flight safety status between the two populations. Based on a constitutional review of a law that serves no purpose, the third class medical requirement must be repealed and you must do your sworn duty and vote to end this useless law!"

    Where are the folks who understand what the founding of this country was all about? This isn't complicated.

  17. #57
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qsmx440 View Post
    I hate to say this but do a little research on him. I did a quick internet search and found what big programs he has recently voted for. My belief is this is a "But cars don't fall from the sky." or "What about the doctor jobs?" guy, not a "What, no facts to support continuing this law? Then let's get rid of it" guy.
    I personally don't know him from a hole in a wall. I have always been of the opinion that he was to the left of center. During the last election he ran as an independent in order to hide his leanings. He did manage to convince the voters of Maine to overwhelmingly elect him. I had been of the opinion that the voters of Maine had learned their lesson as he had been in office in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by qsmx440 View Post
    " A recent, detailed, 10 year study of pilots with 3rd class medicals verses a population of "sport pilots" flying with an automobile drivers license as evidence of physical fitness to pilot an aircraft, has turned up NO statistical difference in flight safety status between the two populations.
    I don't question that this study may exist, however I have only heard that it exists. And hearing that it exists does not make it so. Are you able to provide a link to the study so that I may read it for myself. I am inclined to think that your statement is correct, I just need to see the documentation. Thanks.
    N1PA

  18. #58
    JP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qsmx440 View Post
    I hate to say this but do a little research on him. I did a quick internet search and found what big programs he has recently voted for. My belief is this is a "But cars don't fall from the sky." or "What about the doctor jobs?" guy, not a "What, no facts to support continuing this law? Then let's get rid of it" guy.

    There should not need to be any complicated argument given to a politician on this. No compromises, no excuses, nothing is needed but the statement of our rights based on our constitution (the governments ONLY franchise to govern us. It should read thus: " A recent, detailed, 10 year study of pilots with 3rd class medicals verses a population of "sport pilots" flying with an automobile drivers license as evidence of physical fitness to pilot an aircraft, has turned up NO statistical difference in flight safety status between the two populations. Based on a constitutional review of a law that serves no purpose, the third class medical requirement must be repealed and you must do your sworn duty and vote to end this useless law!"

    Where are the folks who understand what the founding of this country was all about? This isn't complicated.
    Your observations are factually correct. And your facts about the 3rd Class medical are likely correct.

    The reality on the ground is far different. Being a politician with the ability to make law is only about one purpose: the power to control how much and to whom money goes, period. And money goes directly to the constituencies who share your view of the world and will vote to keep you in power.

    How does this relate to flying?

    Simple--your privilege to operate an airplane is viewed by an ever increasing number of people as an inimical, elitist activity fueled by wealth that you have unfairly taken from others. Those who share this view have been promised that in exchange for a vote to place someone in power this inequality will be addressed and the wealth properly and fairly redistributed. In fact, there is an entire political faction that is devoted--slavishly--to this philosophy and won the electoral college, handily, twice in a row. It is now the majority view.

    Social scientists, demographers and political scientist have all put forth studies portraying this as the way our country is inevitably headed and/or has arrived. You be the judge.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I personally don't know him from a hole in a wall. I have always been of the opinion that he was to the left of center. During the last election he ran as an independent in order to hide his leanings. He did manage to convince the voters of Maine to overwhelmingly elect him. I had been of the opinion that the voters of Maine had learned their lesson as he had been in office in the past.


    I don't question that this study may exist, however I have only heard that it exists. And hearing that it exists does not make it so. Are you able to provide a link to the study so that I may read it for myself. I am inclined to think that your statement is correct, I just need to see the documentation. Thanks.
    The "study" so called by me, is the real world experience of the sport pilot flying safety record. I am going by what has been stated over and over about the safety record. I tend to believe it since no credible defense has been put up by the doctors or the FAA or any one else who would be able to refute the safety record (concerning the medical). If they had had the evidence that pilots without the third class were more dangerous they would have gone public by now. It's a study because it's been going on for almost ten years now and thousands of test subjects are in each group. The FAA has been collecting the info on accidents and "apparently" there is no difference hence the law is unconstitutional just like making people sit in the back of the bus because of their skin color. It is a law without a purpose.

    As an aside I believe the safety record is the same because both groups have to take biennial flight tests by persons actually qualified to test the fitness of a pilot in the real world.

  20. #60
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    qsmx440, Now I get your point of a "study". I had heard other references to a "study", so I had thought that there had been some data put together for publication. I happen to agree with your points.
    N1PA

  21. #61
    JP's Avatar
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    I have now been asked to brief a Very Senior Senator (not Angus King, he's still stuck on "staffer stupid") on the Third Class Medical issue. I need actual facts, stats and the very best articles/briefing sheets from AOPA, etc. on this matter. Any input /references/authoritative cites would be greatly appreciated as I prep the brief. This is a unique opportunity for all of us to gain a very powerful ally in our cause.

    JP
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    www.bloomerrussellbeaupain.com

  22. #62
    marc's Avatar
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    Cool

    Done did it while waiting in traffic.Easy
    t-cart n43643

  23. #63

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    May 16, 2014


    Mr. David Allen
    2 Buttercup Lane
    Hancock, ME 04640-3126

    Dear Mr. Allen,

    Thank you for contacting me in support of S. 2103, the General Aviation Pilot Protection Act. I appreciate your taking the time to do so.

    As the senior Republican on the Transportation Appropriations Subcommittee, I am focused on the regulatory burdens on our transportation industry and the need for common sense approaches that maintain safety. S. 2103, as you are aware, would amend the medical certificate requirement for recreational pilots. Currently, recreational pilots must receive a medical certificate in order to fly.

    This bill would allow recreational pilots to fly without this certificate, using their driver's license as a way to fill the requirement, as long as their flights meet certain criteria. This proposed bill has been referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. While I do not sit on this committee of jurisdiction, I will benefit from knowing your views should this legislation come before the full Senate for consideration.

    Thank you again for contacting me.




    Sincerely,




    Susan M. Collins
    United States Senator

  24. #64
    cubpilot2's Avatar
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    It appears that the FAA is doing their own survey on this issue.

    I received an invitation (randomly selected) to participate in an evaluation survey of our medical certification services.
    I should have copied the survey questions prior to completing it online as I can no longer access the form but to the best of my recollection it includes...

    Random questions about my last medical evaluation processes. Did the AME ask for certain documents. Did you receive a through physical... (asked if you had to remove any articles of clothing).
    Did he review the forms with me etc etc.

    The part that I found the most interesting was a question directed at the process itself and "Does the medical evaluation process work to increase the safety of the aerospace system?" (words to that effect) It gave the usual answer options but the last one on the list was "not at all". (My pick; as I was referencing the third class medical)

    When selected it then takes you to another page and asks why you selected that comment; and they give plenty of space to reply.

    The closing questions again asked if you want to make any comments and I repeated a few referencing the AOPA efforts and the pending bill in congress.

    If you get one of these survey requests don't trash it; but please take time to give them your thoughts. It may make a difference.
    Ed

  25. #65
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Thanks for the heads up.

    My office was just site visited last week to see if we met standards, and we do. I am concerned, however, about the questions that you are being asked on the survey, as they can contribute to your AME being hung out to dry. The FAA watches our every move, as AME's. Personally, I have been concerned that my proactive stance with regard to doing away with the 3rd Class medical might jeopardize my ability to "serve at the pleasure of the Federal Air Surgeon".

    Randy

  26. #66

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    I have worried about that in your case also but:
    "In for a penny, in for a pound" and I have to admit all the years I worked for and around the government I didn't have the guts to ever speak out. It takes character to take the stand you have while still active within the system! Only those who have been on the inside of the bureaucracy can understand how wasteful and self serving it has become and most of the time they can't admit it to themselves.

  27. #67
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    How many months ago did we send Emails to all of our Senators and Reps? Well I got an answer from our Faux Indian senior senator today. I suspect that she doesn't know that she sent it to me.

    Dear Peter,
    Thank you for contacting me to express your support for S.2103, the General Aviation Pilot Protection Act of 2013.
    This legislation, introduced by my colleague Sen. John Boozman (R-AR), would direct the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to relax certain medical certification requirements for the pilots of qualified small, lightweight aircraft.
    General aviation is important to the success of airports across Massachusetts, and I appreciate your concern that the current safety requirements may impose significant costs for the pilots of small aircraft. In April 2014, the FAA initiated a rulemaking process to review these requirements. I am pleased that the FAA is taking a closer look at this issue and am confident that the agency will draw on sound data and reliable expertise to reach a decision that is in the best interest of public safety and everyone who flies.

    I appreciate your reaching out to my office about this issue, and I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind as the FAA continues its rulemaking process.


    Sincerely,

    Elizabeth Warren
    United States Senator

    Washington, DC
    317 Hart Senate Office Building
    Washington, DC 20510
    Phone: 202-224-4543
    Boston, MA
    2400 JFK Federal Building
    15 New Sudbury Street
    Boston, MA 02203
    Phone: 617-565-3170
    Springfield, MA
    1550 Main Street
    Suite 406
    Springfield, MA 01103
    Phone: 413-788-2690
    N1PA

  28. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    Your observations are factually correct. And your facts about the 3rd Class medical are likely correct.

    The reality on the ground is far different. Being a politician with the ability to make law is only about one purpose: the power to control how much and to whom money goes, period. And money goes directly to the constituencies who share your view of the world and will vote to keep you in power.

    How does this relate to flying?

    Simple--your privilege to operate an airplane is viewed by an ever increasing number of people as an inimical, elitist activity fueled by wealth that you have unfairly taken from others. Those who share this view have been promised that in exchange for a vote to place someone in power this inequality will be addressed and the wealth properly and fairly redistributed. In fact, there is an entire political faction that is devoted--slavishly--to this philosophy and won the electoral college, handily, twice in a row. It is now the majority view.

    Social scientists, demographers and political scientist have all put forth studies portraying this as the way our country is inevitably headed and/or has arrived. You be the judge.
    Hi JP--=eloquent and articulate----reflects my sentiments---Rush would be proud of you---John Fleurent


    "You cannot teach experience, you must acquire it."
    Captain Cub

  29. #69
    little wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    How many months ago did we send Emails to all of our Senators and Reps? Well I got an answer from our Faux Indian senior senator today. I suspect that she doesn't know that she sent it to me.

    Dear Peter,
    Thank you for contacting me to express your support for S.2103, the General Aviation Pilot Protection Act of 2013.
    This legislation, introduced by my colleague Sen. John Boozman (R-AR), would direct the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to relax certain medical certification requirements for the pilots of qualified small, lightweight aircraft.
    General aviation is important to the success of airports across Massachusetts, and I appreciate your concern that the current safety requirements may impose significant costs for the pilots of small aircraft. In April 2014, the FAA initiated a rulemaking process to review these requirements. I am pleased that the FAA is taking a closer look at this issue and am confident that the agency will draw on sound data and reliable expertise to reach a decision that is in the best interest of public safety and everyone who flies.

    I appreciate your reaching out to my office about this issue, and I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind as the FAA continues its rulemaking process.


    Sincerely,

    Elizabeth Warren
    United States Senator

    Washington, DC
    317 Hart Senate Office Building
    Washington, DC 20510
    Phone: 202-224-4543
    Boston, MA
    2400 JFK Federal Building
    15 New Sudbury Street
    Boston, MA 02203
    Phone: 617-565-3170
    Springfield, MA
    1550 Main Street
    Suite 406
    Springfield, MA 01103
    Phone: 413-788-2690
    She say she check with medicine man, Big Chief Thunder Cloud. Him not sure yet. When him decide after many moons and vision quests, she say she agree with him. hm.

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