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PA-18 tail feathers on a PA-20, Pacer

The stretched pacer/producer/bushmaster use them check the shortwingpipers.org site
 
Unless you have a 180 hp engine or stretched fuselage on the PA-20 or PA-22 I never saw any need to install larger tail feathers on one. I’ve always had plenty of elevator authority throughout the speed and CG range assuming it is rigged properly. I have seen where the stabilizer rigging was off and you could not get enough nose up trim, but that is a rigging issue, not a square footage issue.
 
dgapilot said:
Unless you have a 180 hp engine or stretched fuselage on the PA-20 or PA-22 I never saw any need to install larger tail feathers on one. I’ve always had plenty of elevator authority throughout the speed and CG range assuming it is rigged properly. I have seen where the stabilizer rigging was off and you could not get enough nose up trim, but that is a rigging issue, not a square footage issue.
Click to expand...
If you fly off beaches and soft sand or on skis, the larger tail feathers help a bunch to get that tail up and out of the soft stuff so you can gain speed MUCH quicker. If you are pounding pavement or grass strips then there is no reason to put the larger tail feathers on.
 
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dgapilot said:
Unless you have a 180 hp engine or stretched fuselage on the PA-20 or PA-22 I never saw any need to install larger tail feathers on one. I’ve always had plenty of elevator authority throughout the speed and CG range assuming it is rigged properly. I have seen where the stabilizer rigging was off and you could not get enough nose up trim, but that is a rigging issue, not a square footage issue.
Click to expand...
Not questioning the elevator authority. Don't you suppose the larger tail feathers would improve the stability during normal cruise flight in other than smooth air? It's been a long time since I've flown any of the PA-16 or -22 models. I do seem to recall they are not the most stable. Therefor requiring a considerable amount of piloting to maintain a reasonably smooth ride. This having the result of increased pilot fatigue. Larger tail feathers could reduce this fatigue factor. The interconnected controls do contribute to the instability and fatigue. The Colt without the interconnect, was much more pleasant to fly.
 
I think the instability is due to the short coupled fuselage and wings. It never really bothered me. I think having more tail volume would exacerbate the pitch instability as the control inputs would have more impact (once you got used to it, less movement would do the job). I can see the advantage that akavidflyer mentions for sand/gravel/snow.
 
My first plane was a Vagabond. Little squirrelly at first. But if you could keep it straight taking off then the landing was easy. I'm pretty sure I could have looped it with just the trim tab alone

Glenn
 
I will be in one in August up to Alaska. 180hp but otherwise stock airframe. I had one years ago and as I remember it wasn’t any more effort to fly than my Tcraft
 
My Pacer had stock tai feathers and it definitely took a while to get the tail up even with full nose down trim. The big tail guys could blow them up right from the get go. Once in the air they are a dream to fly and very maneuverable with a stock tail.
DENNY
 
TcraftF21 said:
I will be in one in August up to Alaska. 180hp but otherwise stock airframe. I had one years ago and as I remember it wasn’t any more effort to fly than my Tcraft
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I could be wrong, but I thought the STC for the 180 HP required the 18 tail feathers.
 
akavidflyer said:
I could be wrong, but I thought the STC for the 180 HP required the 18 tail feathers.
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None of the 0-360 STC's require 18 tail feathers. In fact, on our 0-360 STC with constant speed prop combination we purposely installed a set of stock round tip wings for flight testing so that the modified wings would not have to be a "requirement" for the STC.

That said. We ran a set of -18 tail feathers on our PA-22-20 with fixed pitch 0-360 for a few years and they worked well. However, we installed a set of stock tail feathers with VG's and they perform about the same as the -18 without VG'S.

--Brian
 
Steve's Aircraft (Brian) said:
None of the 0-360 STC's require 18 tail feathers. In fact, on our 0-360 STC with constant speed prop combination we purposely installed a set of stock round tip wings for flight testing so that the modified wings would not have to be a "requirement" for the STC.

That said. We ran a set of -18 tail feathers on our PA-22-20 with fixed pitch 0-360 for a few years and they worked well. However, we installed a set of stock tail feathers with VG's and they perform about the same as the -18 without VG'S.

--Brian
Click to expand...
OK so I was wrong on the 180 HP STC's, not the first nor last time I will be wrong I am sure. I had stock tailfeathers with VGs for several years before I went to the 18 tail feathers. Flight wise, you are correct, not much difference in the air. Getting the tail up and out of the sand or snow there is a BIG difference between stock with VGs and 18 tail feathers. When loaded more AFT there is a BIG difference as well.

I would venture that most guys that are pounding pavement and grabbing burgers wouldn't really notice much, but guys that are off airport and playing in the soft stuff DO notice a big difference.

Same with VGs on the wings. If you are not playing on the lower end of the speed spectrum you won't notice much, but if you are playing where feet count, its a really big difference especially with maintaining aileron effectiveness all the way to the "break".
 
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