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Thread: Amazing How Fast the FAA Approves This

  1. #1
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Amazing How Fast the FAA Approves This

    1000s of drones in the air in this country already and United Drones plans to produce 7 drones a week by this time next year. Amazing how fast this is getting approved. How many mid-airs will there be?
    http://uniteddrones.com/
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  2. #2
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Actually it looks like they might be dragging their feet a bit but for different reasons. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...utm_medium=RSS
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

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    180Marty's Avatar
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    I sure hope we don't get those things around here. Will be terrible if I have to get Spot-A-Pots for when I'm out in the fields and need to go. Also, there are plenty of geese to worry about when I'm flying around. WHAT A WASTE OF TAX MONEY.

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    DesperadoPilot's Avatar
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    The poachers around here will shoot them down.

  6. #6
    mvivion's Avatar
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    The FAA just approved the Grand Forks Sherrifs office to operate small drones in several eastern ND counties for "search and rescue", law enforcement, etc. UND is drooling. These are restricted to no higher than 400 feet. That'll prevent any conflicts with "real" aircraft.....like all the Air Tractors, Ag Cats, etc.

    look for major TFRs next time the Red River floods, or a prisoner escapes, or ???

    SAR from 400 feet? Right!

    MTV

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    irishfield's Avatar
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    If they had to publicly disclose whom owns shares in such companies a lot of this contract crap wouldn't happen.. just sayin..

  8. #8
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    Everywhere in CONUS there is a camera or somebody. Or that is what is hoped.
    2018 R44
    IA/A&P, ATP, SES, CFII, MEI, Rotor PPL (2500 TT)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXI48e1heuo

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    PerryB's Avatar
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    I say we all get .50's and use them for target practice.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !

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    jjack's Avatar
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    "Cub Armament " The next Big thing!
    JohnnyJackson

  11. #11
    DesperadoPilot's Avatar
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    What we Need is somebody to invent some sort of gps type radar gadget so we can detect them and pinpoint their location, track, altitude and speed with some element of accuracy.

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    thinking maybe buck shot.... wonder how much it would take

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesperadoPilot View Post
    What we Need is somebody to invent some sort of gps type radar gadget so we can detect them and pinpoint their location, track, altitude and speed with some element of accuracy.
    Mount it on a foil helmet and include a black helicopter detector then if you really want a marketing opportunity advertise on "Doomsday Prepers."
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  14. #14
    DesperadoPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Mount it on a foil helmet and include a black helicopter detector then if you really want a marketing opportunity advertise on "Doomsday Prepers."
    LOL, we'll make sure you get a brochure.

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    Estes "model" rockets.

  16. #16
    180Marty's Avatar
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    D'oh! Police Drone Crashes Into Police SWAT Team
    This is what would have happened had the Keystone Cops had drones back in the day
    http://lewrockwell.com/spl4/police-drone-crash.html

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    What???? That high???? Wow! That's going to get in my air space.
    itsgpk

  18. #18
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    More drones, more intrusive, fewer people out working

    Loss of jobs, loss of life, more government grants to the connected...

    http://www.livescience.com/26707-dro...-highways.html

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    Do they have insurance or is it automatically everyone elses fault?

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    no its not our fault they will just blame us

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    what speed are the fixed wing models ...can we even run them down...

    i bet that we could get it passed that they must carry a horn to signal before change of direction...the folks that put them there wouldnt know any better

  22. #22
    btracy's Avatar
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    This is the one time that the animal rights activists good be a positive. Need to get them onboard as to the number of migratory birds that will get ran over by these things. They are already working on birds that are hit by windmills. If they get an early start maybe they can tie this thing up for a few years.

  23. #23
    aktango58's Avatar
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    A bird does not even have to be hit by the windmill, the pressure differential by the blades literally explodes the birds... direct from USFW biologists.

    The idea of windmills got stopped short here due to the protection of eagles... so maybe Bill is on to something. But target 'Threatened' or endangered species.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  24. #24
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Unmanned Aircraft final report.
    Gee, how come this has taken less time than the third class medical review?
    http://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/...t_11-21-15.pdf
    N1PA

  25. #25
    Paul Jackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Unmanned Aircraft final report.
    Gee, how come this has taken less time than the third class medical review?
    http://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/...t_11-21-15.pdf
    I used to be Chair of our Governmental Affairs Committee and spent quite a bit of time on the Hill. I actually like this process (stay with me). It is a bit of a trend to get the end users and SME's on a working ARC (this isn't new) or advisory working group (this is) to make recommendations. I like this because it gets all of the stakeholders in the room and prevents the parade of lobbyists into each office on the Hill or in front of each committee to make law. The rule makers like the FAA and TSA have proven they can't react quick enough to threats like personal drones to make a difference. The work of this committee will get right in front of the lawmakers without the BS of the FAA leading the way ("we can't do that" people).

    This threat is real to GA and to airliners. We are seeing a drone sighting with increasing frequency and it has quickly passed green lasers as our top regulatory issue. I am not a proponent of registration alone as a safety step. I am a geo-fencing proponent which stops drones from leaving the ground or being operated into sensitive airspace (airports, national parks, etc). We are pushing for a combo of the two programs at Southwest Pilots' Association (ALPA sat on this panel). Our solution is a registration of a drone once it is geo fenced and punishment (read poaching level-confiscate the drone type) if it is operated within a city proper within a set milage of airspace and it isn't registered and geo fenced. The drones can be programmed and chipped to prevent incursions into airspace, altitude limits, and fly away kill switching.

    I have sat on discussion panels on this issue and I said it then and will say it now we will have a drone v airliner incident very soon in the US airspace. GA is also likely to have an incident. Last Christmas season Amazon sold 1000 drones a day. This year that number will increase exponentially. It isn't a matter if, it is a matter of when with these numbers in the airspace.

  26. #26
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jackson View Post
    ..... we will have a drone v airliner incident very soon in the US airspace. GA is also likely to have an incident. Last Christmas season Amazon sold 1000 drones a day. This year that number will increase exponentially. It isn't a matter if, it is a matter of when with these numbers in the airspace.
    I don't know about any previous airliner incidences but I do know of a radio controlled model airplane colliding with a friends Piper Apache in 1965. It hit just outboard of the left engine making a substantial hole in the wing. This was a model airplane hobbyist who was flying too close to the approach space of a local airport. He should have known better. This current fascination with drones appears to be separate from the model airplane people. Drones are a product of modern technology sold as toys to the general masses who do not possess the wisdom to be involved in the airspace system. Because of the ability to design, manufacture and market these drones to the masses in large volumes I believe that laws will be written, bureaucracies will be developed, people in the agencies will become all fired up and the drones will keep on flying and getting in the way. This follows in the same vein as the gun law argument. When guns are outlawed only the criminals will have guns. With this in mind, I believe that one rule should be in place which requires all of these drones have electronic collision avoidance designed into their electronics. Not just to avoid airplanes but to avoid anything within a certain distance. Electronic design is extremely sophisticated nowadays, this should be a rather simple part of their engineering.
    N1PA

  27. #27
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    To avoid they have to detect. What is your theory as to how that will happen?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  28. #28
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefoy84 View Post
    To avoid they have to detect. What is your theory as to how that will happen?
    Eddie, I wish that I understood electronics enough. Something like a bat's "radar" sensor which sends out a signal bouncing it off objects for collision avoidance. Similar to these new driver less cars. What type of sensors do they have to avoid collisions? Weather radar has been sending out signals looking for returns since the days of tube radios. These modern electronic wiz-kids ought to be able to put something into a chip.
    N1PA

  29. #29
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Takes more than a chip. need a transmitter, receiver, and an antenna. That takes space and weight. Plus radar antennas are a focused beam. Radars on fighters, etc, only see in front. It takes a saucer and rotating dish like the AWACs to get a 360 degree picture.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  30. #30

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    Just found this online. This is the technology cars use for collision avoidance systems... Don't know about size/weight, but guaranteed to be smaller in a few years....
    Built on a proven optical time-of-flight approach, a Leddar-based sensor is essentially a “light-based radar” that sends very short light pulses of (invisible) light about 100,000 times per second to actively illuminate an area of interest. The sensor captures the light backscattered from objects (either fixed or moving) over its detection area, and processes the signals with highly efficient signal processing algorithms to precisely map their location and other attributes.




  31. #31
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Cool but it only sees what is in front of it.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    Yep, but you know some 20 year old kid will figure out a way to make it work.. Just a matter of time..

  33. #33
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Eddie, You are looking at it with an obsolete electron tube mind, as do I. That's why we need an electronics wiz-kid to come up with an electronic multi-phased fly's eye. An electronic 360 degree Doppler effect signal.
    N1PA

  34. #34
    Paul Jackson's Avatar
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    What many in the industry are asking for is already in most of the drones. It is a modification to the nav database that limits its ability to be operated in certain airspace (lateral and vertical). Many/most of the 4 engine drones work and talk to a controller and gps is one of the inputs to the controller or aux input (IPhone) to navigate and for features like fly a preset path and return to launch site capabilities. The reprogramming is to override the flight capabilities if gps location is in regulated airspace and "geo-fence" off the area to drone flight. Our ask is that when the drone has this capability in its software that it is eligible to be registered and only then. We are aware that "jailbreaking" is possible as it lesser capable drone flight in these areas and we are asking for draconian (poaching like) punishments for these offenders (forfeit of property up to and including cars and trucks). The ability to put see and avoid software and equipment on a drone is pretty tough to envision at this point. A 250 KIAS jet is hard to see and avoid in a 3 dimensional real world. The technology may be out there but it isn't already on the drones like the gps chip. We need a yesterday solution and rules for these craft that are conflicting with aircraft in controlled airspace on a nearly daily basis.

  35. #35
    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    1000s of drones in the air in this country already and United Drones plans to produce 7 drones a week by this time next year. Amazing how fast this is getting approved. How many mid-airs will there be?
    http://uniteddrones.com/
    A couple weeks ago I attended the "Drone World Expo" in San Jose CA.

    The lead off keynote address was "Avoiding the Traffic Jam: A government and Industry UTM Update". Speakers were:

    FAA - Hoot Gibson, Senior Advisor on UAS Integration.
    NASA - Parimal "PK" Kopardekar, Manager, Safe Autonomous System Operations (SASO) Project
    Google X - Dr Dave Vos, Project Wing Project Lead
    Verizon Ventures - David Famolari, Director

    The most interesting takeaways from the keynote for me was that the FAA wants to move slowly and cautiously in integrating drones into the airspace. Google was exactly the opposite, saying the concern for drones in the airspace was over blown and that it would all work out safely. But most importantly Google is not willing to wait decades or even years. They are willing to wait months. Google made it a point, over and over and over and over, and was quite emphatic that they ARE NOT willing to wait years or decades. I certainly understood Google's comments as they won't wait.

    I made it a point to look over at Hoot Gibson every time Google said this, trying to get a sense as to what he thought about Google's position, but Hoot would make a good poker player.
    Phil Whittemore

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    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    When there are tombstones, the FAA will take more evasive action. When you are fighting a huge money enterprise(Google) with an agenda it is difficult. Young people who are more electronically adept think it's cool so there are no letters to law makers drafted by them. There was a drone shot down in my local area by an angry redneck last july. The drone owner claims he was not over the shooters property more than two seconds. The shooter lost in court over criminal charges. The drone owner just happend to fly over a back yard with two sixteen year old girls in bathing suits by the pool and hovered(according to the shooter). I know if I walked out on my back deck and saw a drone over my back yard it would take more than two seconds to go in the house, get my shotgun and take out a drone. The drone owner could not produce a sim card from that flight mysteriously. These drones will become just as annoying as people who text and drive soon. This is one facet of government where I think we do need strict regulation.

  38. #38

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    Amazon, planning for more out of work people everyday...
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    You sound like government material. Why have one person do a job when we can have four people do it worse?

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    You sound like government material. Why have one person do a job when we can have four people do it worse?
    Actually Stewart, I do what Governmental agencies don't do well and do it efficiently so I have no problem with being efficient, but net job losses are a real problem so I don't use the self-checkout lanes either.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 11-30-2015 at 04:22 PM.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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