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Thread: Driver's license medical for six-seat aircraft?

  1. #41
    sniffler's Avatar
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    I think we are toast folks, I am scraping pennies together and looking for a "Fat" light sport, one that maybe bends the rules a tad. Meanwhile get ready for another AOPA plea for just a little more cash, we almost are there........

    Aliens Movie:
    Newt: Guess we're not gonna make it, are we?
    Ripley: I'm sorry, Newt.
    Newt: Don't be sorry, it wasn't your fault.
    Hudson: That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over, what the $%& are we supposed to now, huh, what are we gonna do?
    Burke: Maybe we can build a fire, sing a couple of songs, huh, how about we try that.
    Newt: We gotta get inside. It's gonna be dark soon, and they mostly hunt at night. Mostly.

  2. #42
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    Drs are dumping lots of $$$$ into their pockets to try and stop this so they can
    Pull down $900k instead of 800k this year,...... It's just about extra money for doctors now......
    .simple as that period.......

    We had a small time Dr. up here that did medicals in his retirement. Needed to retire, so he sold to another doctor that does them now. New Dr. raised rates. He also told me that the FAA MANDATED him to return to Ok. city every year or two to get re-labotomized with the FAA 'way'. Yes, it comes out of his own pocket.

    If he did 100 medicals each year, (doubt it), He makes about $17,500 gross. Now factor his insurance, cost to keep his office open, (works at a public clinic for a real job), has to pay for training and FAA update stuff, loses free time that could be used with family.

    Why?

    Without him we would need to fly to Seattle or Anchorage to get our medicals. It would cost us about $600 every time, if we got lucky and did not have to spend a night.

    Let's take Dr. Randy. Just imagine he actually gets an extra $100,000 each year because of 3rd class medicals. That would take 2.5 class 3 medicals each working day at $200 by the way. SO WHAT?

    That just might be the extra income justifying him traveling to the FAA school, keeping the locked secret FAA files, having to train staff on a bunch of malarkey so you don't have to travel to another city to get your medical!

    If he has any left over, he probably spends it on computer stuff so he can help us poor folks that need advice from our SC.org DR, or he spends it helping kids, cub guys, neighbors and a myriad of others making their life better.

    Back to course: 2.5 class 3 medicals each day, (along with the other appointments), 200 days a year @ $200 to make that extra money?

    Really? I don't think it is about the money for the Doctors
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  3. #43
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    I do ...........

  4. #44
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Dang it, George, don't cloud up this discussion with good math!!!

    I personally have wondered/am wondering what the motive would be for the Civil Aviation Medical Association (the proverbial AMA for AME's) would be to turn a blinds eye toward the very convincing data that was collected from the light sport aircraft experience and come out vocally and convincingly against the EAA/AOPA petition! As I have pointed out elsewhere, we are trained as physicians to critically evaluate results of studies and be able to see through b.s. and come up with conclusions which would hold up under academic scrutiny. We are trained to be very wary of anecdotal stories or case reports.

    The position of CAMA just doesn't make sense, making me think there is a motive for their position. In general, when there has been falsification of data or the like in medicine/science one can come up with a motive...follow the money. Not always, but frequently. However, as you have pointed out, George, the numbers just don't add up for most AME's being in it for the money.

    I know of a number of AME's who do 1000-2000 flight physicals per year, and that adds up to some incentive to oppose elimination/reform of the third class medicals. I have mentioned that I have done anywhere from 50-150 per year, and these are done mainly because I enjoy supporting pilots by offering a good service to them.

    From the FAA's perspective, I would bet that the AME's who do 1000 per year probably are more skilled in dealing with the myriad problems that represent the cross-section of problems facing airmen for recertification. They probably take up a heck of a lot less of the FAA's time, as they are not likely to need to call their Regional Flight Surgeon's office as often as I do to clarify/ask guidance. Fortunately for me, our RFS's office is very understanding and very dedicated to the pilots I see and they are gracious in helping me guide my pilots through some difficult processes.

    So, if the motive for CAMA AME's is not money, what could it be? Power? Perhaps there is a bit of this.

    Why does any physician want to be an AME, anyways? Ruh, Roh, I feel another thread in the making...

    Randy

  5. #45
    Marty57's Avatar
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    It seems to me that this is about gaining something for your side of the fight. On our side we gain the ability to fly for recreation without the need of a flight physical and we can more freely discuss medical issues with our doctors without fear of being grounded. There are of course many other "gains" that we could list. So what does the opposition gain? There has to be something that they want to protect. It's likely money, power, status, control, or who knows what else. I really don't think it has anything to do with protecting the public; that's just to noble. When we can identify the "gains" of the other side (real or not) than we can address those issues. Until we (including AOPA and EAA) really know why they are pushing their agenda we are simply flying blind. So far; the other side seems to be pretty tight lipped about this entire matter. I'm not sure what to do at this point; California's elected officials aren't interested in our side at all. I guess they have something to gain from the other side.

    Marty57
    N367PS
    Psalm 36:7 "High and low among men find refuge in the shadow of His wing"
    www.marty2plus2.com

  6. #46
    Chicken Hawk's Avatar
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    My AME of 25 yrs does 1300 to 1500 flight physicals per year. I'd say quick math of, 25 yrs x say average of 1400 exams per year = 35,000 exams in 25 yrs, x $200.00 per = $7,000,000.00.....yup! 7 Million!! That's a lot of reasons to oppose reform!

  7. #47
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty57 View Post
    ....... and we can more freely discuss medical issues with our doctors without fear of being grounded. ......
    Well said Marty. This single statement is likely the most important. A pilot is more apt to seek treatment if he knows that big brother isn't going to jump down his throat. The third class pilot community will be more healthy in the long run.
    N1PA

  8. #48
    Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniffler View Post

    Aliens Movie:
    Newt: Guess we're not gonna make it, are we?
    Ripley: I'm sorry, Newt.
    Newt: Don't be sorry, it wasn't your fault.
    Hudson: That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over, what the $%& are we supposed to now, huh, what are we gonna do?
    Burke: Maybe we can build a fire, sing a couple of songs, huh, how about we try that.
    Newt: We gotta get inside. It's gonna be dark soon, and they mostly hunt at night. Mostly.

    awesome movie....

    to to add my .02, I would like to see this pass. I am still getting 2nd class for the foreseeable future but if'n I ever can't qualify then this will be a godsend.

  9. #49
    Lowrider
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    At this point I'd like to see The Donald and the Brain Surgeon behind us. Or, maybe we could start "sanctuary airports" and get the liberals spun up to protect us poor illegal pilots.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  10. #50
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    deleted
    Last edited by Cub junkie; 09-04-2015 at 10:18 AM.

  11. #51
    Lowrider
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    That was meant as humor. If it offends someone they will most likely get over it.

    I was trying to point out that our current tact is not moving the mountain and others not currently on board may be able to add support. Presidential candidates of either party could garner a bunch of votes by pushing this effort...this is one special interest group I'll identify with personally...political views aside.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  12. #52

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    Many of us signed an EAA/AOPA petition in support of expanding the Light Sport category to include up to 4 seats and 180hp. That proposal went to the FAA for review and was handed off to DOT. In the meantime a couple of Congressmen decided to up the ante by introducing a more comprehensive proposal to eliminate the third class medical. A Senate version followed. Both picked up co-sponsors and were referred to committees in the respective houses where they essentially got parked. The following year new bills appeared and then the PBR-2 became the torch for reforming third class. And that continues to go nowhere. And meanwhile the proposal that's sitting at DOT is parked while the politicians fumble things up. The whole thing makes me want to scream. Threads like this come up and guys criticize the FAA. But the FAA isn't the problem here. And DOT's lack of action is almost certainly a response to the Congessional noise about third class reform. Had our representatives waited to let the petition-driven process come to an end we'd likely already have some expansion of Light Sport. Once that was done Congress could have built upon that with an expanded reform bill. But what we have now? Nada. Our representatives want us to believe they're the solution. Frankly I submit that they're the problem. They played a game of chicken with the FAA and can't build enough steam to see it through. More useless blah blah blah from a useless group of self-serving politicians.

    Furthermore, when Mark Baker took the reigns at AOPA he stirred the pot and made some progress with Michael Huerta at the FAA. For the first time we had communication and movement at the FAA. Then Mr. Baker supported the Congessional action and supported that strategy. And like I said, what we have to show for it is nothing. From my perspective I'm not very impressed with the role AOPA played in this stalemate.
    Last edited by stewartb; 09-04-2015 at 10:22 AM.

  13. #53
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Let's add a rider to the proposal giving congress a $.02/year raise.

    That should speed it up

    And yes, it was funny Lowrider
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  14. #54
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Stewart, There has to be just one person at DOT who is responsible for the yes or no answer to the package which was sent by FAA. That individual is shirking it's required duties by not replying in the required amount of time. Perhaps Mark Baker should pick up the phone to this person and remind him/her that the time is up. Yes or No?
    N1PA

  15. #55

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    Raising the bar so high that success in unattainable is a poor strategy. I think the initial congressional bill was probably a pressure tactic that backfired. Congress bluffed and they don't have the cards to win. DOT has little motivation to move on anything in the shadows of the bills in congress. Meanwhile congress is dysfunctional. Dems try to shove policy down the Republican's throats, Republicans try to shove policy down the Dem's throats. There's no middle ground. No compromise. They either get their way or they shove back ad it's almost always along party lines. The net result is that nothing gets done. It's embarrassing to watch. I have no respect for any of the lot. Replacing every last one of them would be a worthwhile effort.

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