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Thread: header or not

  1. #41
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by av8rtom View Post
    When I started my 12 project, there were no header tanks in the fuel system. I'm upgrading to either an 0-320 or 360. I've already put in Dakota 24 gal tanks and Dakota fuel selector, but haven't started plumbing yet. Someone a while back said if I didn't have a header to begin with, then don't worry about it. Should I install one (or two) or should I just not worry about it. What's the advantage other than a little extra gas? I added another door (seaplane) and the STC requires belly sumps. I'm trying real hard not to go experimental.
    Getting back to your original question, since your plane has a normal certificate, you need to either have an original stock system or one which has been modified in accordance with an STC. Your seaplane door and engine upgrade STCs should give you the details of the fuel system requirements. What ever the final approved fuel system is, it will have been tested for unusable fuel. Unusable fuel is determined by slipping and skidding in many unusual attitudes while using the one tank which is being tested. When the engine falters that tank is turned off and another is turned on. Then back on the ground, the tank is drained with the remaining fuel quantity measured. That amount is then considered to be the unusable fuel.

    I suspect that the 6 gallons of unusable, which has been mentioned for which CC is placarded, would be totally usable under normal flight conditions.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 11-09-2013 at 06:50 AM.
    N1PA

  2. #42

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    Pay good attention to Nanook. He knows more about cub fuel systems than 99.9% of the cub people in the world. This is real life working experience.

  3. #43

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    I have a certified 1959 Tri-pacer, 0-320-150, DC 24's per side-48 total, no header, STC Maule fuel selector valve with Off-Left-Right-Both. Only restriction- No Takeoff on Right Tank, With Less Than 1/3 Fuel-. Left & right belly sumps. No AD's with tanks or fuel selector! Never a fuel related stumble. My fuel experience more like Nanook & Mike. YMMV. Clyde

  4. #44
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Tri-Pacers never had header tanks.
    N1PA

  5. #45
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs66 View Post
    I am glad we still have our annual traditions in place at SC.org. This place wouldn't be as fun without traditional topics of "header/no-header", "big tires/no-big tires", "flaps/no-flaps". Which reminds me, we are overdue for a Husky bashing topic.
    I wonder how the removal of the header tank affects the downwind turning tendencies?
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  6. #46
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    I know one thing, if I head a header I wouldn't be using it as a "reserve tank" so that I can run my primary tanks dry sort of like the "snooze" button. Then take a guess on how much flying time you have left. I have 44 gallons capacity on my Cub and 44 gallons usable. When they run dry they are dry and I'm deadstick. Not sure why you need it any other way. JMO
    Last edited by Bugs66; 11-09-2013 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Added JMO because WTH do I know

  7. #47
    Steve's Aircraft (Brian)'s Avatar
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    header or not

    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Again, unsporting aside, why does the CC18-180 have six gallons unuseable fuel? The answer is fuel availability at all "normal" flight attitudes.

    Thats what header tanks are for, and that's a lot of useless gas to haul around....36 pounds worth.

    Granted, the CC header less fuel system STC on the PA18 doesn't require that much unuseable.....so, is that because of CAR 3 vs FAR 23 certification? Seems to me the systems are basically identical? CC tanks in the CC18 180 though.

    MTV
    The unusable fuel is because of regulated fuel flow.... That is the minimum fuel needed in the tanks to comply with the rule.... Example, our 0-360 STC conversion on the PA-22/20 has a 3 gallon unusable fuel because it took that much to comply with fuel flow. That is with fuel pumps, I think the cub crafters CC18 180 is gravity flow so it would need more fuel to get there...

    And as for Tri-Pacers not having header tanks.... They have fuel outlet ports on the front and rear of the tank.... PA-18's originally only have the main outlets on the rear with the exception of the left tank feed to the front header with a smaller line.... At the right flight attitude and the fuel selector on the right tank you can have all your fuel in the front of the tank and un-port that rear pickup. The header less system adds a front pickup to the right and increases the fuel line size on the front left tank giving the airplane a fuel system similar to the Pacer with the added benefit of having a both position on the selector where the Pacer does not have a both... Trimmers fuel mod for the Pacer is better than stock because the line routing for the right tank allows all of the fuel to be usable and it adds a both position fuel selector....

    I am not bashing anyone's opinion... Just giving facts from working on these things for the last several years.... I like both systems myself, they have pros and cons but both work for the intended purposes...

    Brian

  8. #48
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Buggs,

    I needed the tank dry for removal the next day, so instead of draining it after the flight I used it all up that day... had lots in the other tank.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  9. #49
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs66 View Post
    I know one thing, if I head a header I wouldn't be using it as a "reserve tank" so that I can run my primary tanks dry sort of like the "snooze" button. Then take a guess on how much flying time you have left. I have 44 gallons capacity on my Cub and 44 gallons usable. When they run dry they are dry and I'm deadstick. Not sure why you need it any other way. JMO
    Not even if it held an hours fuel, and has a sight gauge? No guesswork involved, that's the whole idea of a sight gauged header, no surprises. If I ever run out I'll know a couple of minutes before ( the time to stoppage after the last of the gas disappears, timed it, in flight, with a ferry tank ready to transfer, and over good terrain) and after watching the level drop for the previous 1 hr. it's pretty obvious it's time to land. Experimental only of course.

  10. #50
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    since Steve Pierce just posted that nice link to Univair's Website's Online Piper Service Bulletins, Letters and Memos
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...ters-and-Memos

    Ill update this thread with the real

    -12 rigging memo link https://store-dtwuls.mybigcommerce.c.../PIP_SM008.pdf

    and

    -18 rigging memo link https://store-dtwuls.mybigcommerce.c.../PIP_SM019.pdf

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