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Thread: Wingtip Fence design ?

  1. #41
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVBottomly View Post
    OSB!? I want to hang out with you for a few days. I thought I was radical with marine plywood. LOL.
    Free scraps no less. If I didn't have a composites whiz buddy, and fellow S-7 flier, I'd use some aircraft ply. CF ought to weigh about nothing.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    Me?? Strong 106.

    the plane in the video.

  3. #43
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Something insane, around 300 hp, maybe more!

  4. #44

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    just curious, with that much power how do you tell what wing candy works and what dosent, with 50 hosepower and loaded up then wing stuff would tell the tale of the tape.
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  5. #45
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Agreed, the tips are such a simple mod, that requires no downtime of the aircraft, and so minimally labor intensive, to install in my case, and I'm not even building them, I figured what the heck I'll give them a shot. I'm more a simple and light as possible guy. I think those appearance is kinda cool also.
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  6. #46
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    Tom, Copied the Super Stols after doing my research also. As has been sed , Would’ve been best to extend below the wing but didn’t want one more thing to hit my head on!



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  7. #47
    courierguy's Avatar
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    When I get them done, I'll fly over to Joe Clark's strip, he's Mr.Winglet, and he can tell me what I did wrong. Already have spades hanging down, so used to ducking, think I will stick with just a bit of plate below the wing. Half the fun of mods like these is BSing other pilots on your performance gains! Plus, like you, I'll have a nice flat area to put a sign of some kind on, or artwork.
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  8. #48
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Here's what I have settled on. Aluminum for now, carbon fiber ones on the way. Tuft testing and video camera documentation were considered, as was fluid flow dynamics calculations. I could bore you with my thoughts on span wise flow over a tapered (from the full rib) tip, but it'd just be all BS! I pretty much just pulled this out of my posterior. I realized Chrysler had it figured out long ago, google "1958 Dodge", and you'll see what I mean.

    Again, this is no lose proposition for me, no mods to the plane, the attach points already there, so, what the heck? To my surprise, the results are "slat like." VERY low approach speeds, feel like 2-4 mph less then the already real slow approach my light bird can make. No loss in speed at all though, still as slow as ever.... but no slower. I would never be so casual about adapting this shape if it meant a major mod, adding weight and taking a lot of time, but I think I stumbled upon a trick tip for my particular bird. Nothing to lose, and I for sure seemed to have gained a bit of even lower approach speed at least when landing upslope like I almost always do, and with some power, sub 20 MPH touchdowns.
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  9. #49
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    That is pretty neat, courierguy. I think I'll plan on leaving mounting holes on my wingtips for experimentation.

    Sort of an aside, I was watching some geese land on the Snake River today. I've always admired their final approach in calm winds--wing tips bent down and stable.

    So I was wondering if anyone has ever tried retractable fold-down tips?

  10. #50
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    The XB-70 for sure, but for different reasons.
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  11. #51

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    ive been studying franks wing end plates for some time now.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nj-Q7VA_xE
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  12. #52
    Lowrider
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVBottomly View Post
    That is pretty neat, courierguy. I think I'll plan on leaving mounting holes on my wingtips for experimentation.

    Sort of an aside, I was watching some geese land on the Snake River today. I've always admired their final approach in calm winds--wing tips bent down and stable.

    So I was wondering if anyone has ever tried retractable fold-down tips?

    Off topic but couldn't help but remember how I loved to see the geese with wings locked and set for landing...and a splash down...when I was goose hunting! Sorry, it just slipped out.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  13. #53
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    courierguy, did you notice any change in your aileron response? If not, try extending that fence further aft to reduce swirling around the outboard end of the aileron.
    N1PA

  14. #54
    Lowrider
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    Interesting question Sky! I think you may have suggested the tip fence when we decided to go with the droop ailerons on my LSA. Any idea on how far back beyond the aileron?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  15. #55
    courierguy's Avatar
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    I didn't specifically test for that, but I've always seemed to have adequate control before , no change was noted either way. I set the end length of the tip based purely on where the aft tip nut plates were located. How far I could extend them past that attach point, without messing with additional attach points, may change when I get the carbon fiber ones, if they come longer then needed. I will getting CF blanks in effect, that a friend is laying up for me the next time he is working with the stuff, that I will cut to the final shape, Based on their stiffness I may extend them a bit further. The whole project was half ass from the start, and I just wanted to keep it simple as possible, if I was building up an entire new wing I'd do more testing as to the optimum tip length and placement, but for such a simple mod, it seems to be paying off. I landed about 20 or 30 times in an hour yesterday on the slopes across the valley from my place, just playing, leaving tracks I can see from my place later (with binoculars) when I get home! All gain and no losses near as I can tell.

  16. #56
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I noticed that courierguy's ailerons extend to the wing tips with nothing else outboard. The lower side of the wing has a higher air pressure than the upper. Therefore the air has a tendency to flow out around the tip creating a swirling motion. This results in the outboard few inches in this case of the aileron, to have dirty air. With a fence the flow will be smooth and flowing straight aft. This will have the effect of increasing the area of the aileron, thus improving the response. Perhaps you have more than enough now, in which case the fence improvement would not be noticed.

    There ought to be no need to extend beyond the trailing edge.

    If you do decide to experiment by extending the fence further aft, consider adding a stiffener to prevent any flutter action. This could be just a simple angle stiffener in line with the air flow.
    N1PA
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  17. #57
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Another 2 + hours today of mucho slow flying and lots of ski landings.

    I think I'm good with the fence stopping where it does. Unless I do a major wing mod and move the aileron outboard to the tip, and then enlarge the flap, (a mod other S-7 fliers have done) extending the fence will still leave a gap due to the aileron ending where it does. AFTER an extended aileron mod.....I would for sure extend the fence. All I need to really do is wreck a bit, easy enough to do, just enough to justify tearing into a really well flying wing, but I can't seem to do that. And I can't bring myself to mess with a done deal, especially as I fly slow/land plenty short already. It kind of bugs me that RANS seems to have gotten things as well thought out as they have, it leaves me with nothing to do but fly.
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  18. #58
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    It kind of bugs me that RANS seems to have gotten things as well thought out as they have, it leaves me with nothing to do but fly.
    Looking from the other end of a project spectrum, that doesn't sound too bad!

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