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Thinking about a newer plane for teaching Float-Plane Flying

Alex Clark

Alex Clark

Registered User
Life Long Alaskan
I have loved my little PA-11 90 horse for the last 9 years or so.... She is the perfect float-Plane trainer.
But after years in a semi-salty lake and an Airport only yards from the ocean, she is starting to show the need for some heavy duty loving in a nice hangar. The problem is that here in Homer finding longer term affordable hangar space is impossible.

So I am faced with a heart wrenching decision, either:

A. Sell the Dragon-Lady and buy another affordable Cub ( maybe with a starter and lights) for seaplane instruction,,,,,,,

B. Find an out of town hangar and A&P for a long term rebuild which would put me out of business for a year.

C. Close up shop and find a new hobby job.


Selling the Dragon-Lady would be like shooting Old Yeller...

Thoughts ???
 
I sent him an E-Mule. Although, I just get by with doing legal check-rides because I do not have an electrical system and I have the lighter weight C-90-8 engine.
So I am betting his 0-200 engine with a starter might make things a bit heavy.
 
know why divorce is expensive?

cause they are worth it!

Get your ducks in a row, maybe a new fuse in the shop.

tear it down come freeze up and work hard all winter, fly in spring...

winter two do wings.
 
aktango58 said:
tear it down come freeze up and work hard all winter, fly in spring...winter two do wings.
Click to expand...
That's exactly how I did mine. (Wings were a plan change when I ran out'a winter.)
 
Alex,

I have many fond memories of the time spent with you in the "Dragon Lady". While I cannot help with your decision, I believe that an O-200 powered J-3 would be a disappointment after the "Dragon Lady."
 
Around here a space in an overcrowded, unheated hangar with a leaky roof is $300 a month.
When I rented a nice heated hangar it was around $1,600 a month.
Seven months of that will reduce any money I could throw at the Cub by at least $11,000
 
Rebuild the same way Johnny Cash built his car...."one piece at a time". It'll barely cost you a dime
 
Of course here we can rebuild stuff outside in the winter, so that's what I will do. I have enough spare pieces so that down time would be one or two weeks.

But Alex is right - the costs of rebuild far exceed the costs of just buying a good one. And having a starter motor on a seaplane sounds like a pretty good idea.

The caveat on this one - which, by the way, I forwarded to a handful of potential Cub buyers, is the paperwork. I have seen airplanes modified like this one with an IA signature on a stack of 337s without approved data, and no FAA stamp in block 3. I am not sure what happens when an accident occurs and the paperwork is examined.

If the paperwork is legit and the thing is anywhere near 800# empty, then this looks like a good deal.
 
Alex,
What is your priority?,...keeping and flying that particular Cub, or float instruction?

You can refurbish a Cub in a garage, or large living room :smile:. However, I suspect at some point you would talk yourself into a starter and other fun stuff. Although I hate the thought of someone drawing down of Old Yeller, maybe a different plane would really work better for your purposes.

Option C sounds unreasonable. Just think of how much trouble you'd likely get into with all that extra money you wouldn't be spending on an airplane.

Jim W
 
I was lucky with the Dragon Lady because I managed to get the FAA records ( a computer CD) that showed the conversion was legit.
And it followed all of Atlee's STC's . I have flown in more than a few other converted J3s which were a hybrid of various other styles and shoe-box paperwork.

While a starter is not really a big deal for a personal use aircraft. it becomes a little more desirable when you are spending 6-8 hours a day instructing and you have to unbuckle, crawl out and hand start the plane 5-12 times a day while trying not to whack another expensive plane our get your wings caught in the shore-line trees. According to my logs my little plane has made 3,500+ landings on floats alone.
Sooner or later the hand propping will get me...

An older Ag model 18 or even a 125 or 135 Super Cub on EDO's would work just fine for what I do...
I have been shopping around and everyone thinks their Super Cub is worth more than a C-185.

And yes I have even eyed a couple lower end C-180s. While I could cut the hours of flight time because of the extra speed between points, the 300% increase in fuel consumption and higher maintenance bills would make it not very attractive for lessons. Yes I could do a little more multi person flight seeing, but that was only major business concern 5 years ago. Tourism is way down in our area.
 
Last edited:
+1 0n the 90hp cub. Many cubs get rebuilt in garages. Hang the wings on the walls. You can even hang them on the outside if you take precautions.
 
Buy an 85 or 90 hp TCraft....they are cheap and you could rebuild Dragon Lady and still have a flying plane while you rebuild. Then sell it. A TCraft makes a great little float plane. My C90 powerered TCraft cruises at over 95 on floats and gets off great even loaded.
 
Alex ,
To make money with a small seaplane, why is a PA18/95 not the answer? Same operating
Expenses as the 11, starter &lights. Great for the student great for your bottom line
They sell all the time for 40k instead of 80plus. More comfortable than the 11, probably use your
Same floats? Great little airplanes?
 
TurboBeaver said:
Alex ,
To make money with a small seaplane, why is a PA18/95 not the answer? Same operating
Expenses as the 11, starter &lights. Great for the student great for your bottom line
They sell all the time for 40k instead of 80plus. More comfortable than the 11, probably use your
Same floats? Great little airplanes?
Click to expand...

Simple answer: Useful load vs weight of applicans/instructor. And remember that an examiner is going to have to fly (legally) in the plane with an applicant. And, you don't often get to choose examiners.

in case you haven't noticed, the average weight of pilots these days seems to run around 200 +.

I sold old my Super Cub and bought a Cessna 170 for this very reason, though this was before Wipline got their 2000 GW mod approved.

Alex has done pretty much the same.

MTV
 
Lol, well so are you implying Americans are getting bigger as a species ? Wonder if Kentucky Fried, McDonalds,
Or Pizza Hut are somehow mixed up in this? And the old Bud Helmricks special a "C170", what a great old ship.
I think Jay Hammond had a soft spot for them as well, Mike you are getting mighty close to 8k on the posts........
 
Well this is an old thread.
The Dragon lady was sold off in late 2013 and I bought a C-172N with floats. It is OK as a float trainer, much more comfy to sit inside-of all day and goes cross country a good bit faster ( 90 knots) than the 65 mph PA-11.

It also allows me to do two person flight seeing trips around the bay. Which was a big complaint before. Although a couple people called up and said they would NOT get their float rating with me because they thought a Cessna would be boring. BUT, then again, these same people have been talking and ONLY talking about coming here for 12 years and they still have not done it....

Here she is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECMBh-XvxZ4
 
Nice looking Skyhawk Alex, which floats have you got under it? Have a couple friends that have them with 180hp anf they both are
On Pk 2300s, nice working airplanes! Hope it works good for ya. Video looks great this morning ,while
I am watching you fly around in summer weather, spray flying.............
Its 10 below and blowing its guts out here!
 
They are not that bad, I've got a ton of time in 180hp Skyhawks on wheels, and this summer got some more time in a later 160 model on floats. Think it had an 80" prop, that made a huge difference over the smaller prop, which is what I had time in before.
 
Mine is a 160 horse with a Power Flow Exhaust and Horton Wings.
The floats are PK-2300s. The older model with the microscopic sweet spot. Which is a good ting for teaching floats.

She does OK.

Here is a rough draft of a video that we have not yet finished.
Chris the camera guy and myself were doing some demo landings and take-offs one frosty fall morning. Eventually we are going to add some under the screen words to explain what i am doing wrong and why one take-off is longer than the other. Still all in all she does OK considering a bunch of folks said that a C-172 would not work on floats. This will only be here for awhile....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB2lw-hSaRs&feature=youtu.be
 
By the way, for pure float flying fun,,,, into small lakes and ponds, with lots of twisting and turning through the trees, NOTHING beats a 180 horse PA-18 or a Husky. The PA-11-95 was very close because of the light weight.. at half the fuel burn.
 
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