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Thread: New member building a PA18-95

  1. #161

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    Diagonal bracing on ribs

    I'm planning to leave the #2 rib in tact and run wires through two smaller tanks with front and rear crossover tubes and vent in bays 1 and 2 on both wings totaling 18 gal. per side. Cubcrafters does something similar with their extended fuel machines. Originally I was thinking 1 smaller tank in each wing and a fuel pod underneath, (again something similar to Cubcrafters), but I didn't want to rely on a pump, a hand pump in my case, (no electric) to refill tanks in the wings as I run them dry. My logic is that both wings will resemble the right wing in a -95. There will be no beefing up to the rear spar behind the fuel tank bay because I'm not cutting the top out of the second rib. I also won't need a heavy tank cover. Because my individual tanks will be smaller, the tanks straps will also be smaller. I will set it up so I can install a light guage tank cover (what could possibly leak?) over the first two bays with the second rib in tact. I may just fabric over them originally, but have it set up for a cover. We'll see how I feel when that day comes.

    I'm adding diagonals to my ribs similar to Dakota Cub ribs. What I had works well for others and would likely be just fine, but adding diagonals was suggested and makes sense to me. It will add 1.21lbs. total, but if my math is right, it will be far less weight than boxing in the top of the rear spar in the flap area to ease my mind.

    Anyway, pictures are of before and after diagonals and kids spending some time with Dad in the shop.

    Thanks,

    Jim
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  2. #162

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    Forgot to mention, new flap/aileron rib 10.3oz, gained .7oz, new nose rib 1.4oz, gained .1oz.

    Thanks,

    Jim

  3. #163
    Lowrider
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    Always good to have a plan and stick to it as best you can!! Stay on top of your inst. work and take time out for the family...otherwise full steam ahead!!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  4. #164

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    Nope

    Reality set in with the 4 smaller tank thing. Too heavy, too complicated, likely to leak like a sieve. Back to two 12 gallonish tanks with provisions for a fuel pod if I decide I need it. It will be hard enough to make two tanks that don't leak.

  5. #165
    Lowrider
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    You can do it Jim!!

    I built two 20 gal tanks all TIGed up and I got no leaks in 36 hours of 5 psi of air pressure test and I still covered all the seams and welds with ProSeal...just...well because!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  6. #166

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    I know I can make them and have them not leak on the ground. The real trick will be making them last for a long while on land and in the air.
    Remember the old Samsonite commercial with the gorilla playing with the luggage? Thats what I imagine them needing to stand up to. From a least likely to leak standpoint and ease of install, it looks to me like a shear plate is the clear winner followed by single through tube and then double drag wires. I also feel like weight will follow the same order. What I was thinking with two tanks tied together with hoses between a rib likely wouldn't be much lighter than a single through tube. The gorilla will easily make the two tank hose creation leak first. I don't relish the thought of moving fuel around with a fuel pump, especially an electric one (I drive GM). But I do like the idea of light most times heavy when I want to be. 24 gallons should give me about the same range as a J3 with a 12 gallon tank up front. I might decide that is enough for me. If not, build a pod. If the pump fails, take about an hour to swear and find a suitable place to land, use my creative climbing skills and replentish the tanks with my coffe cup(lots more swearing). To the shop!

    Thanks,

    Jim

  7. #167
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    Answer...no rides for gorillas!!

    I have a 48 C-170 that just developed a leak last summer at one of the straps. Best I can tell it is the original tank and it never leaked until then and it's probably 0.040 and not the 0.050 I used so I'm pretty confident with my tanks.

    I've always used Holley electric pumps and they seem to work flawlessly...heavy but they work for me.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  8. #168

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    Couple quick questions

    Aileron horn stops- looks like some guys use them, some don't. I'm making them, may or not use them, don't know enough yet. There are two dimensions for them. It looks like you cut them off slightly at the end for final adjustment. Make two of the longer ones? (this seems to make good sense...)

    How much space needs to be built into the gap between the flap and aileron? Aileron and tip? Extending the flap inboard from the first hinge, exactly 3" or something else?

    From Jim math and the drawings, I'm not coming up with definitive conclusions.

    Thanks,

    Jim

  9. #169
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim A. View Post
    How much space needs to be built into the gap between the flap and aileron? Enough so that the aileron doesn't hit the trailing edge of the wing when it is full up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim A. View Post
    Aileron and tip? 1/4" or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim A. View Post
    Extending the flap inboard from the first hinge, exactly 3" or something else? Not so much that the flap hits the window when it is hanging down. Extending the flap outboard is more effective since that portion operates in clean air.
    Hmm? SJ did something that made me add more words to post.
    N1PA

  10. #170

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    From the prints, and not sure again if I am interpreting them right, it showed 9/16" of a gap between the aileron and the tip. If I add up the lengths of the stock aileron and flap and divide the remainder by 3, I'm coming up with a number between 3/8"-1/2", or in other words a 3/4"-1" gap between the flap and aileron and a 3/8" gap on the inboard side of a non-inboard extended flap. Doesn't seem right.

    My flaps are extending both ways, just curious if someone has a number inbound for the flap that will work without hitting. It looks like you do some fairing either way.

    Thanks,

    Jim

  11. #171
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Just measured my Cub:
    Center of inboard flap hinge to inboard end of flap 11".
    Gap between flap and aileron 1/4".
    Gap between aileron tip and wing tip 1/8".

    Don't forget to allow for the thickness of the fabric when you build your surfaces.
    N1PA

  12. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim A. View Post
    Aileron horn stops- looks like some guys use them, some don't. I'm making them, may or not use them, don't know enough yet. There are two dimensions for them. It looks like you cut them off slightly at the end for final adjustment. Make two of the longer ones? (this seems to make good sense...)

    How much space needs to be built into the gap between the flap and aileron? Aileron and tip? Extending the flap inboard from the first hinge, exactly 3" or something else?

    From Jim math and the drawings, I'm not coming up with definitive conclusions.

    Thanks,

    Jim
    Aileron stops, set the stops at the ailerons to the right degrees up and down and then go in the fuselage to the control sticks and set those stops. I still think my one 24 gallon tank in the left wing is the cats meow, except for traveling, wish there was more. But i do have a 1 quart header tank. Wanted to add, i put a little drain hole at the lowest part of the aileron hinge in the center bottom, dosent need to be very big.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 03-28-2016 at 08:16 AM.

  13. #173

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    Just realized what I wrote in my first post last night was written incorectly. What I should have written was 3" inboard from the edge of a standard flap or 10" in (7+3) from the center of the first flap hinge. If your first hinge is where it normally goes in a Supercub wing, this tells me 10" from the center of the hinge should clear easily. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Also good to have actual numbers for the remaining gaps after cover that work on your plane. Thanks again Pete! Doug, I noticed that hole you mention on store bought units. Likely a good reason for it. Thank you for mentioning it. Yes, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that I'm going the right route for me with 24 gallons and provisions for a pod. It will never burn gas if I keep stewing over it!

    Thanks,

    Jim

  14. #174
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Center of inboard flap hinge to side of fuselage 12". This gives 1" gap from end of flap.
    N1PA

  15. #175

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    Last parts before putting wing together.

    I finished putting diagonals in all my ribs and nose ribs. I converted the two full ribs I made into aileron ribs. 138 small chunks of aluminum and 276 rivets later, I'm done with my ribs again. I didn't want to revisit my ribs again, but felt it necessary. Now that it is done, I'm glad I did it.

    Remember those 14 parts I thought I had left? Turns out I had a few more. I think these are the last 38 parts I needed to make before putting the wings together. I still have to make my tanks, tank straps, and wing tips but those will wait.

    All of the parts I've made in the last year just barely fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Looking forward to blasting them and getting a finish on them.

    The airplane factory has to convert to a canoe factory for a few weeks. We're making two more so we all can go to BWCA this summer. I plan to build up both wings at the same time and will have to get the canoe thing done first from a mess/space standpoint.

    Thanks,

    Jim
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  16. #176

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    Nearing completion on the Allen Armada

    Boys and I started these on April 23rd. The little guys are excited about their first Boundary Waters trip next weekend. They are also anxious to sling paint on their hulls. Amine blush and curing epoxy resin, a lesson in patience.

    Once these are out of the shop and the mountain of a mess is cleaned up, we're going to learn something new. It won't be cheaper and it won't be faster, but it will be a learning experience. I'm going to zinc plate and yellow/clear chromate my steel parts myself. Plan A was to just paint them, but a lot of this stuff is just hardware, and I'm concerned about getting good spray coverage on some of the parts. All will get plated, some will get painted as well. Kids will likely have to observe from afar, but they'll learn how this magic works anyway.

    Once I get the process dialed in, I'll post some pictures.

    Thanks,

    Jim
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  17. #177
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    Two canoes in two weeks, they look great your boys will remember this adventure for a lifetime. If you are so inclined you should write up a short story of your build and Boundary water trip for submission to Wooden Boat Magazine. This is the sort of thing that they like. http://www.woodenboat.com/
    N1PA

  18. #178

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    Thanks Pete! Oldest boy may be interested in submitting a story. He would get a kick out of it if it made print. I'll need to get back to business so I can post some airplane related pictures!

    Thanks again,

    Jim

  19. #179

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    Beautiful canoes! Looks like the boys share your interest in building, that's great to see! Great thread, I've enjoyed following your projects.

  20. #180

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    How will you be hauling them?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  21. #181
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    Great job all the way around.. especially including the boys!
    Enjoy the journey.

  22. #182

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    Only need two this weekend. Plan is two upside down on two place sled trailer, third on roof for future trips. Boys and I leaving in the morning, lots of stuff to get done before then. Weather should be nice for camping and fishing, 20 degrees F, 10-20 mph winds, snow and rain. Unfortunately, we likely won't have any mosquitos to keep us company. You can't have everything. If time permits on Sunday night, I'll post some pics.

    Thanks,

    Jim

  23. #183

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    Back to airplane

    Trip last weekend was a success. Temps were warmer than expected, only got down to 27 degrees F, which was good. Boys and I had a blast. Have a prototype to easily convert the canoes to rowing canoes for speed and handling in the wind while fishing. Dead simple, should work well. Anyway, last of the canoe pics on an airplane forum.

    Thanks,

    Jim
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  24. #184
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Awesome, your a great father and friend to your kids

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  25. #185

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    You are doing very well...
    Been following as I am also busy building all the wing parts.
    Your drag struts: did you just use normal Aluminium square tubing (with a sqaure inside corner, not round)?
    What wall thickness did you go for, same as plans?
    How does the plug work? I can't seem to visualise how it works as on every location there is a bolt through the spar. How does that bolt tighten onto the plug that is at the end of the drag struts.
    Cant seem to work out how this part works.
    thanks for the great pics, explains alot sometimes

  26. #186

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    Steel,

    Version 1 was .75 OD .049 wall rounded corners. I puckered the wall when solid riveting the feet above the plugs and after reviewing what I had going on, I decided the wall was too thin anyway. Those went in the trash. Version 2 is .75 OD .062 square corners. The plug is 5/8" 6061 bar stock with a tapped hole in the end. I doubled the length of thread in mine, and lightened them up with holes in the untapped end. The plugs and the bottom part of the foot are retained in the tube with a solid rivet. The top of the foot is retained on the tube with blind rivets to keep from dimpling the tube. The plugs don't go the depth to where the blind rivet is on the tube.

    The plans call for .875" .032 wall rounded corners and the plugs are cast aluminum with a fine thread. I could not find raw materials in this OD or wall thickness. Dakota Cub and Univair sell the drag struts complete, plugs, and some individual components. They may be lighter and likely are better than what I came up with.

    Please keep this in mind, I'm a guy building an airplane in his shop with his kids. I'm likely making some mistakes. I'm glad to share what we are doing, but the only parts that have flown so far, and not well, are the ones that make a quick trip though the air and into the trash bin.

    Stick with it and enjoy the journey. We are!

    Thanks,

    Jim

  27. #187

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    The inevitable

    Boys and I worked on the wrong airplane today, but it is time. Been flying behind this for 7 years now in the 172. Always been over TBO since I've had it, now around 3700 SMOH. Yes, it's the "junky" H2AD with the T mod.

    What brought this to a head was the 4 year life cycle on the 24V $410.95 battery. Could not revive the one I put on in 2012. Not putting another battery on going into winter, before this engine gets gone through, and not again without a battery minder.

    Like putting off an expensive trip to the dentist. You know the tooth won't get better with time, but you really don't look forward to pulling it.

    It was getting to the point where I was reluctant to stray too far from home for fear of getting stranded and spending a big pile of money fast. I prefer to empty my wallet slowly, multiple times over many months, in smaller thousand, and multiple thousand, dollar increments.

    Looking forward to getting this done and getting her shaped up again. Lots of good times left to have with her and many kids who will likely learn to fly in her. Well, they for sure will now!

    Part of the long journey.

    Keep you posted,

    Jim
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  28. #188

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    Give those boys a tool box and it will be all apart for you in no time.

  29. #189

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    Yes, they are good at tearing stuff apart.

    I knew that getting them the starter tool kit from Harbor Freight may have been a mistake. I should have explained not to label things in Crayon and to use more than one box!

    Seriously though, from what my untrained eye without cheaters was able to see today, I'm doing the right thing. I'd be doing something shortly whether I wanted to or not.

    Thanks,

    Jim
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  30. #190

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    The H2AD will be going in the Supercub. Not going to make sense financially to go back in a certified aircraft. Secured a low time 0-320 D that makes a lot more sense for the 172. I'll be flying the 172 and building the Supercub again lots sooner this way. Out about $500 bucks and a month of time to know exactly what I have left in the H2AD. It goes on the shelf for now, money and time well spent in my opinion.

    Thanks,

    Jim

  31. #191

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    Feeling good so far...

    Got the D3G the Tuesday after Christmas, two younger boys and I got it crammed in the back of the Tahoe and brought it home in below zero temps from the Fed Ex Depot. Tailgate down and rear window up, true Clampett style. Boys were excited about the box and insisted I get the engine out ASAP.

    Pecked away at it from New year's to get it in the state pictured here. 6 cord of wood to split, 3 boys in two different wrestling levels and coaching one of the levels 5 days a week, daughter in gymnastics/dance, snow to deal with, work, continuing Ed one day a week, vehicular maintenance, welcome visits from family...it has been busy.

    My mechanic came by tonight before I left for work and put my mind at ease. No splitting of the case necessary on this one, cylinders/pistons look good. It is nice to be pleasantly surprised and buy something used from a great distance that shows up and is exactly as described. I am usually not that lucky.

    Still tons of work to do, baffling, convert to D2G, exhaust to repair, swapping starter, swapping alternator, finding different alternator bracket, new gaskets and hoses, moving oil check door in cowling, battery and tender, etc. Hopeful to be done with this before soft water fishing season.

    Keep you posted.

    Thanks,

    Jim
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  32. #192

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    Finally

    Darn near two years and $11,581.64 later, the 172 will fly again on Saturday. Hated to be away from the plane I wanted to work on for so long and flying period, but this plane needed to take priority over the Supercub and funds only go so far. By going slow, I learned a lot, stayed married, and am still able to feed and cloth the kids. Finished up an associates degree for work this spring. Glad to have that done. Kids and I have taken nearly 20 trips in the canoes we made. Was able to purchase some shop equipment along the way. Now I can plug the damn things in and get back to BUILDING THE SUPERCUB. I'm excited, here are some pictures.

    Before Pictures
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  33. #193

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    After Pictures
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  34. #194

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    Along the way Pictures
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  35. #195

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    Pics of yet unused shop toys
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  36. #196

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Cloquet, MN
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    Pics of H2AD engine parts ready to be assembled for Supercub
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  37. #197

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    Having fun Pictures
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  38. #198

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    Apr 2013
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    Cloquet, MN
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    Was able to salvage the case halves, sump, crank, rods, and cylinders from the H2AD. New valves, lifters, cam, pistons, mains, etc. will need to be purchased. Plan is to assemble the engine to a point in the back of the shop, start putting the wings together in the front. Still need to plate my steel wing hardware first. This will be cheap and a good way to ease back into things. Have had all the stuff purchased for a long time, just need to experiment and get at it.

    This 172 engine took over and held the shop hostage. I'm glad to have it finally out.

    Thanks, post more soon,

    Jim

  39. #199

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    Apr 2013
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    Nearly forgot this picture. They might end up with the same sickness their dad has!
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  40. #200
    Cub junkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    My Moms basement
    Posts
    2,063
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    Awesome. Back in the game with a fresh Lycoming. Those balsa stick models teach patience as a builder if you want good results, they have lots of little pieces. I helped move a Bridgeport before, not an easy task and one you don't want to botch. Is that a phase converter mounted on the side?
    Thanks Jim A. thanked for this post

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