Page 50 of 56 FirstFirst ... 404849505152 ... LastLast
Results 1,961 to 2,000 of 2209

Thread: Lowrider LSA

  1. #1961
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    It wouldn't need to be down low. It could be up high such as the top of the fin. The further aft, the more authority/leverage it would have thus less size.
    N1PA

  2. #1962

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sky walker is right get a servo tester/cycler. Additionally I have a concern regarding using the trimtab as the auto pilot. Servos can easily overdrive a dead one -we gang them up on the bigger RC for redundancy and power. If your trim servo is powered and trimming out the aircraft it will need to have power to the servo to hold its position. Now throw an auto pilot servo on top of a "locked" trim servo I don't like the outcome.

  3. #1963
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have something very similar to that only made from tube and fabric for the elevator trim. It's about 2" x 8" and operated by the push/pull rod. I think what you're saying is enlarge the trim tab and use if for both trim and the AP. I know it's more drag but I'd kinda rather keep the trim the way it is now and add something that would function only by the AP...maybe on the other side of the elevator.

    I'm using the logic that once the plane is trimmed at a particular cruise speed the only need to re-trim would probably be fuel burn. THEN, the AP can control pitch independent of the stick. Does that make sense?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  4. #1964
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaverpilot View Post
    Additionally I have a concern regarding using the trimtab as the auto pilot. If your trim servo is powered and trimming out the aircraft it will need to have power to the servo to hold its position. Now throw an auto pilot servo on top of a "locked" trim servo I don't like the outcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    I know it's more drag but I'd kinda rather keep the trim the way it is now and add something that would function only by the AP...maybe on the other side of the elevator.

    I'm using the logic that once the plane is trimmed at a particular cruise speed the only need to re-trim would probably be fuel burn. THEN, the AP can control pitch independent of the stick. Does that make sense?
    Do NOT use one tab to act as both the trim and the autopilot. Use a separate tab for each purpose. The autopilot tab will be in constant motion in other than smooth air. I think that Beaverpilot is confusing R/C models with the real thing which you are building for this application.
    N1PA

  5. #1965
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Agreed! Beav is correct, I think that was Skywalker who proposed using the elevator trim tab with the AP.

    I need to look at the vert stab and see if that would be good place for a tab. It is thick enough to house the servo and strong enough to mount a tab or paddle. The right side of the horz stab is pretty thin but I can run a control rod out of the fuselage to operate the tab on the elevator. I think I like that better...trim the plane with the tab on the left side and use the tab on the right side for AP.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  6. #1966

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like
    No, I was just saying that a separate fin sticking out of the fuselage for trim is going to be using a lot of alpha and induced drag. Trim tabs are far better than trim surfaces.
    Meanwhile go to 3DRobtotics and download the mission planner for free.
    What's a go-around?

  7. #1967
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Skywalker View Post
    No, I was just saying that a separate fin sticking out of the fuselage for trim is going to be using a lot of alpha and induced drag. Trim tabs are far better than trim surfaces.
    Meanwhile go to 3DRobtotics and download the mission planner for free.
    That's true skywalker, I was suggesting that those fuselage fins could be used for the autopilot controls in lieu of installing another trim tab and mechanism. In that use they would be relatively drag free sort of like small elevators.
    N1PA

  8. #1968
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Skywalker,

    Mission planner is on the hard drive...suppose I need a Pixhawk now. From what I've learned so far I should wait for the 2.1 version.

    3D is quite a company. I used to be a surveyor back when I thought I wanted to be a civil engineer. Life as a surveyor would be SOOO much easier now with GPS and all the modern gadgets.

    I put together the servo "exoskeleton" which is nice quality and will serve to take the strain off the servo bearings and provide a very solid mounting point. I guess I forgot to order a part because the inside of the bearing shaft is smooth and not 24 tooth spline I expected. Tried to call Servocity but they are closed until Tuesday.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  9. #1969
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    I successfully installed my last nut plate on the left wing. I'm thinking of hiring a nut plate specialist for the right wing!

    Been thinking about where to put the servo for the ailerons and I'm leaning toward attaching it to the stick like I planned using the Trutrak system...if...it looks like it will be strong enough to effectively operate them from that position. By using that instead of a tab on the aileron I won't have anything to maintain in the wing and if I used the control rod for the elevator as well it will remove the need for a tab on the elevator or a servo to operate it. This will also reduce the drag involved with the tabs.

    I'm waiting for the arrival of my "servo tester" to try out the one I bought to run some tests to see if it will provide enough "umph" to operate the control surfaces smoothly.

    Any thoughts here?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  10. #1970
    Olibuilt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    799
    Post Thanks / Like
    Long time no pics.

    Show us were ou are at. Will it be flying someday?

  11. #1971
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    It will take a heavier and stronger servo to operate the controls when attached directly to the primary control system. A tab system would be able to use small light weight servos moving lightly loaded tabs. The tabs would produce minimal drag. So little that you are unlikely to notice. I suspect that the weight of just one servo which drives the primary control system would weigh more than the entire autopilot system which you have been describing using hobby shop equipment.
    N1PA

  12. #1972
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hey Oli,

    Good to hear from you! I'll snap a pic or two and let you see where I'm at progress wise. I sorta got behind last summer while I was building my new shop at the airfield where we are going to move once we sell our current house. Although when that happens I need to build a new house and the rest of my hanger so I'm trying to get at least this wing done while the weather is still cool and wet.

    Sky,

    Good points and I know you are correct weight wise. I have also been looking at screw type linear actuators which are smaller and lighter than the usual auto pilot servos. We'll see what the hobby servo will do once I get the tester. Some extra leverage thru some type of linkage may makeup for power available in the smaller servo. We'll see.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  13. #1973
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    I have also been looking at screw type linear actuators which are smaller and lighter than the usual auto pilot servos.
    Screw type linear actuators are generally used for things like flaps which are placed in a position and stopped. You are needing something that moves constantly in both directions. Screw type linear actuators are not intended for this purpose.
    N1PA

  14. #1974
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    True.

    I found some small ones that are more powerful than the hobby servo and I'm trying to find out if the motor can react as quickly as the servo to commands. They have the geared advantage in their design to give the power without the weight. At this point I'm not sure they can since the larger ones have some "run-on" after power is removed. Also don't know if they will have the duty cycle high enough to do constant small forward and reverse movements. Still looking.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  15. #1975

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like
    And you need to add some kind of feedback to a linear actuator. With feedback the actuator becomes a servo and the run on problem is fixed. But I suspect the deadband might drive the servo amp nuts. I haven't seen any actuator fast enough to respond to gusts.

    Any scheme to attach hobby servos to the primary will need springs or clutches for the over ride, they don't give way like a Dynon servo, don't have clutches like a Garmin. I have springs on a linear actuator for my pitch trim, you will need to experiment to get the springs' rate and preload right.
    Sky is right, one of my Dynon servos weighs 2 pounds, Futaba 1/4 scale servo, 3oz.
    Last edited by Skywalker; 04-07-2017 at 11:31 AM.
    What's a go-around?
    Likes Dave Calkins liked this post

  16. #1976
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    So, you're talking a pre-load on the tab via a spring to deal with gusts/rough air? That makes sense.

    I think the linear actuator is probably out...duty cycle is as low as 40%. That makes them great for flaps and normal trim.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  17. #1977

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like
    No springs needed for tabs, only when you attach a hobby servo to the primary control circuit would you need springs. Just saying that you'll be hand flying against springs if the hobby servos are powered off, 'cause they'll be very hard to move. They can be moved, but it puts a lot of stress on the servo. Come to think of it, if they do move while hand flying, you'll have a very different trim all of a sudden. I think the guy at Oshkosh had it figured out.
    What's a go-around?
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  18. #1978
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ok...suddenly a moment of clarity.

    Thanks Skywalker! After breakfast I'm off to the shop to make a servo mount for the ailerons. Then to the new shop to paint. Painting is almost as bad a nut plates!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  19. #1979
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    Then to the new shop to paint. Painting is almost as bad a nut plates!
    Worse! I'll take nut plates any day.
    N1PA

  20. #1980

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks everyone , for my very first post I got a pretty interesting variety of responses. If anyone has a Supercub with the Amsafe belts installed I'd be interested to know how much they cost. I've emailed the company twice and didnt get a reply.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

  21. #1981
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    That was a terrible disappointment...#2 son brought a DC power station over and we hooked up the servo tester at 5.95 volts, hit the power button and all we got was 3 lights on the tester and a jerky movement of the servo shaft. Checked polarity and found it was correct. Tried again and got nothing this time but 3 lights. Turned the knob throughout it travel which apparently is supposed to provide speed control...still 3 lights and no joy from the servo.

    Bad servo? Bad tester? It appears to be too simple to connect it incorrectely...red to positive and black to ground. Tried to touch the yellow wire to both power and ground...no change.

    Now what?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  22. #1982

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is their a polarity switch on the tester? Positive pulse servos have been out of fashion for decades, but there may be an option. You want a 1.5ms negative pulse on the yellow. And you're powering it so the black is also the ground for the signal?
    What's a go-around?

  23. #1983
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    No Sir...not that I can see. There are graphics showing which way the plug should be inserted, the knob which I believe controls speed and 3 LEDs that represent something. It seems simple enough.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  24. #1984

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like
    You'll have to find a local modeller who can loan you a servo or you can try to drive one of their servos. Its tough getting started with no spares lying around. Or just buy one of the nearly free off-brand servos that are all over the web. Note on "digital" servos: they are interchangeable with regular servos, they get their info from the same analog pulse.
    What's a go-around?

  25. #1985
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Good to know the "digital" servos will work the same way as the analog. I guess I need to spend a little more time researching.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  26. #1986
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here's some pix Oli!!

    Well, I tried...apparently, my computer erased the SD so I have no pictures. They really weren't much anyway...picture of the top of a wing and another shot of the fuselage jambed in the corner trying very hard to stay out of the way. I have smart phones, smart tablets and smart TV's but I remain not so.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  27. #1987
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Got my wing tips and the left one fits perfectly. It weights maybe 2 lbs and will be easy to fit and finish after my favorite nut plates are installed. Question is will the usual 3/4" finish washer be adequate to keep the fiberglass from being stressed and crack? The other option would be to glass in a stainless 1" x 10-32 washer on the top of each bolt hole. Other ideas?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!
    Thanks Beaverpilot thanked for this post

  28. #1988

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    What type of servo tester do you have? We had an old Astro flight at the shop it was cheap and it worked every time for any servo. Maybe post a picture of your setup and we could give our 2cents


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  29. #1989
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    Question is will the usual 3/4" finish washer be adequate to keep the fiberglass from being stressed and crack?
    Best answer is "it depends". Ask yourself what causes the cracks in the first place? High stress loads on the fastener location? Excessive resin materiel over the glass? High or low vibration location on the airplane? High or low flight loads on the wing tip? Spacing of the fasteners? Flexibility of the wing tip around the fastener location? Is the wing tip a lifting surface or just a rounded tip?

    Without knowing anything other than what you said, yes the 3/4" washer spaced about 4" +/- should be just fine. Is this one of those thin washers with a dimple? The only purpose of the fasteners is to stabilize the joint between the tip and the wing. The structural loads are minimal.
    N1PA
    Thanks Beaverpilot thanked for this post

  30. #1990

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have glass tips screwed to an aluminum wing with sheet metal screws, simple holes in the glass, no reinforcement. Six top and six on the bottom. The biggest stress probably occurs in the hangar.
    What's a go-around?

  31. #1991

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Inkom, Idaho
    Posts
    1,251
    Post Thanks / Like
    After the first 1000 hours I took the fiberglass wingtips off my S-7. The earlier models, and my first one I flew for 1300 hours was one, just had the fabric covered tip bow. The later models, like the one I fly now, have a tip that it turns out is just cosmetic, but adds no aero benefit, while weighing a few lbs each.

    There ARE some tips for my bird, made by a after market small shop here in Idaho, that DO add performance, Hoerner type (spelling?). I bought a pair, CF no less, and took the old (banged up pretty good from hangar rash and other things), ones off and had the new ones ready to install. This was going to involve cutting into the wing fabric as you need to get at the last full rib. I had the box cutter knife in hand and right at the last second paused: then I weighed the old and the new lighter tips. Did the math, and determined NO tips would save weight, and I wouldn't have to cut into a perfectly good fabric job, and deal with re tensioning it, I copped out. I sold the tips at a slight loss, and am waiting until I build again or have a wreck, or some reason to recover the wing, then I'd use them. The slowest landing I saw one year at JC was Joel Milloway's S-7 with his tips on it, they knock off 2 or 3 mph of the already slow speed stall.

  32. #1992
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yes, thin washer with a dimple....who knew it would be this hard! I have guests from back East and kids here so it's not been a normal week. Also bought a new Tractor and the subframe that came with it won't fit my backhoe...AND trying to burn brush while things are still wet around here so as not to start a bigger fire than I planned...who knew it would be so hard!!

    Beaver,

    My computer hates me...I take pictures and the computer won't display them. Microsoft did some "update" and now I can't read my camera's SD.

    Anyway...servo is HS-755HB and the tester is a GT Power RC Servo Tester...no model number.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  33. #1993

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    206
    Post Thanks / Like
    Just watched "using the gt power servo tester" on utube, if you're getting all three lights at once the tester is bad out of the box.
    What's a go-around?

  34. #1994
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    Depending on the fit of the tip you could increase the fastener spacing to about 6" +/-. I don't think that I would do more than that though.
    N1PA

  35. #1995
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Skywalker,

    I'll check out the Utube vid to see if I can figure out how this testing should occur.


    I finally have a break from visitors for a few weeks and now I'm trying to get brush and stumps burned at my lot "down South" before the place turns dry and the burn ban takes effect. I'm down to the bottom of the piles which is wet and takes a long time and a lot of smoke to get this stuff to burn. I need to spend another couple days or so with the York rake getting the stick and stones out of the piles left over and one more day of burning and I'll be ready to start hauling fill into the lot to get the area where the house goes up to a level spot. Just had 40 ton of bank run dropped in the area where the hanger will go behind my shop...GREAT fun pulling big stones out of the material. We're meeting today with the engineer who is finalizing the drawings for the house...painful trying to get thru the process then on to the county to get them approved...another joyful process.

    Never fear...I will get back on the plane. Just in case I sell my house in Sandpoint and need to move the plane parts I'd really like to have the left wing near finished. This moving thing is not something I'll tackle again once this one is complete.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  36. #1996
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Questions for those in the outback or bush or whatever...does anyone have any recommendations for solar powered threshold lights? The owners of the grass strip I'm part owner in have come up with a need for lights that we can deploy after the last snow and be put away shortly after the first heavy snow. The purpose is to define the runway threshold in "twilight" hours. These need NOT be FAA approved type lights since it's a private strip but we would like to have quality better than Chinese solar garden lights. Anything that's being used on strips without power might work since we don't want to wire them for commercial power.

    Thoughts or ideas?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  37. #1997
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Finally got my shop doors up and functioning.
    2017-06-26 16.31.54.jpg

    We built a 4' x 8' platform to use with my forks to get up in the air to work on the variety of things I can't reach from the ground. Works great. Working by myself I set it where I want and climb the ladder to get up there. Progress...however slow!!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!
    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  38. #1998
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    You guys thought I forgot about the servos...not so, just took awhile to figure out how to post pictures again. See if this helps Beaver and Skywalker?
    2017-06-29 23.44.41.jpg

    Any ideas if this is the correct tester? If so, what am I doing wrong?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  39. #1999

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ha , was just thinking about this yesterday. Nice cage for the servo. Does it the controller just set neutral to the servo. It says ccpm which is a servo setup for helicopters. Can you change modes on it? I personally used an old astroflight servo tester. If all else fails get it tested at a hobby shop.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  40. #2000
    Lowrider
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Idaho Panhandle
    Posts
    1,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Gosh...damned if I know but there doesn't seem to be any adjustment on the controller except for the black knob in the center which seems to only increase/decrease speed.

    I ran into a fellow who flew P-38's in WWII and is now doing 1/4 scale RC and is very knowledgeable on this stuff. Problem is he's pretty much deaf and I don't sign at all. His grandson tried to interpret for me but no joy. I'll see him at a meeting on the 10th and I'll try to find out if he can help. If not, where I should go.

    I really like the cage. It should take most of the stress off the bearings. Any ideas on how long this servo might last in this application?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

Similar Threads

  1. What Do You Think of the BearHawk
    By MarkG in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-05-2004, 09:31 AM
  2. 260 Bearhawk
    By cubdrvr in forum Modifications
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-25-2003, 08:59 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •