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Lowrider LSA

What a beautiful day in Northern Idaho...good day to shoot some Ecopoly on my tail feathers. They are now Insignia White and I must say this stuff went on easily and almost flawlessly...no runs, no drips and no errors...except for where my Lab's tail entered the equation with a single swipe across the wet side of the rudder. I know he was just trying to help. So, I must say Stewart's was easy to wipe off with a damp towel in the area where Mick assisted and I laid on 4 nice light fog coats in that area topped off with a heavy coat that flowed out nicely and I'll know where it is but I'm not sure others will notice it...we'll see when it's dried in the morning...maybe a nice orange stripe will go there or maybe some blue trim...we'll see.

I continue to really like Stewart's and especially the gun and Mick's tail clean-up with warm water in about a minute...great stuff so far!! I do wish they had a brighter orange.
 
Nice to hear you like Stewart's , we had the course and thought it was an easy system to use. I have not done it yet as I am still waiting for parts to my cub project. When I get ? The parts I will hang my wings , finish controls and be close to finishing with Stewart's.
I may just take my project to someone familiar with Stewart's to do my whole plane , while I am busy building composites for others.
naybe you could post some pics ?
 
Not much to look at yet...they do shine nice though:

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NOT FOR AIRPLANES!!

Just thought I would share something I found to work in my motorcycles, ATV's, snowmachines, leaf blowers and chain saws. It is a homemade version of Seafoam and the below formula is from the web, not mine. I have used it in various versions and it does keep things running better. I just bought a 1981 Honda Gold Wing in cherry condition but hasn't been run in a couple years with that damn alchy gas in the tank. I drained the old gas and put in a pint of this mixture using ATF instead of diesel and within 25 miles or so the rough running engine was smooth...great stuff I think.

4 parts diesel fuel, 2 parts naphtha, 1 part denatured alcohol

Use at your own risk but it works for me.
 
Still not done with boat, trailer, motorcycle, ATV and yard projects but I'm getting ready to attack the tail control systems so I can begin with the floor install. NOTHING will go under the floor so I'm thinking I can install the floor before I do anything with covering the vert stab or fuselage. Does anyone have any thoughts about installing the floor parts before covering the rear fuse...not a big deal to crawl inside after it's covered but I don't crawl as well as I did at one time!??
 
i do everything before i cover, electrical,fuel lines, cables, full int wings on and rigged. it is so much easier do fit things and change stuff before fabric plus their is less chance for hanger damage the longer you hold off.
 
Following your lead Cub!!

How many folks use gear safety cables? I have a high degree of confidence in my gear but you never know for sure. Also, for those of you who use them, what is an approximate weight? I welded in attach points at the wheels so I can install the cables easily if I go that route.
 
I couldn't stomach the weight of the cables that came with my Super Cub style gear, plus the extra drag, so I gave them back to the gear builder. No regrets but I should say that my gear is truly "Cub style" in that it is overbuilt for my LSA (750 lbs). I like to think that if I wipe out the gear, I am going to have major problems regardless of having cables or not!
 
OK, I gotta agree with you Courier, the drag and weight are a definite "drag" on the decision. I suppose I should just forget about cables and get on with it...I've never broken a gear yet so I suppose I'm just being overly cautious...besides that, they're ugly.

Started to final fit the floor parts yesterday and that's turning out to be more than just a casual effort. I pre-drilled them but I must have left them in the dryer too long because they seem to have shrunk...nothing a slightly bigger hole and a countersunk washer won't fix.

I was going to change the oil in my 60 gal compressor yesterday but went fishing instead. This nice weather here in Northern Idaho is not conducive to getting things done that need to be done and my dance card is full...just living the dream!
 
Questions for those with more experience/knowledge than me:

CFR14, Part 1, Paragraph 1.1:

"Major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications—

(1) That might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or

(2) That is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.

I've installed float fittings and fully intend to build a set of floats (probably Zenith) for the plane which raises the question that if I include things like the W&B, speed restrictions and other appropriate aircraft specs for use with floats in the POH do I need to go thru Phase I flight testing when I put the floats on the plane??
 
Dunno about you guys south of the line, but up here in the great white the first time you actually install the floats on an amatuer built, you need to get an additional inspection and then do a (single, one time) test flight. A flight where you put the aircraft through all phases of normal flight. T/O, landing, turns, slow flight, etc and make a log book entry. Of course along with a revised W/B sheetbfor the new landing gear.
 
Low,
You should discuss this question with the DAR which you are going to use. The EAB requirements imply that you would need to advise FAA of the major change and then it will be up to them as to what you need to do.

I wouldn't arbitrarily place any speed restrictions on the floats. You will want to determine if any are needed during flight testing first. I tested and placarded my float VNE at 2 mph greater than Piper used for wheels and 17 mph greater than Piper used for the floats. I do not know why Piper lowered VNE 15 mph for the floats. In testing mine there was nothing noted which would cause the reduction.
 
Sky,

Did you do your initial shakedown on wheels?

This all came up as a result of a conversation with a couple builders about adding a cargo/fuel pod after the Phase 1 testing/fly-off. One suggested that if you put it in your AC specs as a normal part of the aircraft that there is no need to notify FSDO when you put it on or take it off as long as it's done IAW the POH/operating limitations. That made me think of the floats...hence the question.

That raises another question, how do you handle the arc on the ASI if adding/removing something changes the stall speed, VNE or other speed? Is it like the LSA Carbon Cub with the 180 hp...full power is only for takeoff and handled with a placard?
 
Low,
Mine has only been on floats. I submitted the weight and balance to include all of the required calculations with both wheels and floats. I have taken the tact that the floats are the most restrictive and characteristic effective. Since it is basically a Cub clone I'm considering changing to wheels as a minor alteration. The only airspeed marking which I have is the VNE. That was the only number which was requested in the flight manual.

LSA airplanes have a maximum continuous power limitation with a formula for determining the max horsepower. 180 hp exceeds that limit. So, the airplane which you mention is placarded for the maximum continuous power which is a number somewhat below 180. !80 if for takeoff only. This is just a method of circumventing the rules.
 
That makes sense!

I think the LSA restriction is 120 Knots in level flight at sea level at max continuous power which I believe comes in at 108 hp for the Carbon Cub LSA...doesn't matter how much you use for take-off or climb. Hopefully the 3rd class medical will go away and none of that will matter.
 
A little off subject but...a friend of #2 son is building an ultra lite and wants to use dacron to cover the control surfaces and wings and he doesn't know what to do to keep the UV in check since multicoats of primer and paint will add weight. Any ideas on what to use that is a good UV protector and only takes one light coat??

By the way, I'm installing fuselage interior lights, floor, pedals and control stuff in between fishing trips, Young Eagles and high school student training...great fun but it takes alot of time.
 
I had planned to use nylon brake lines from the master cylinders to a point on the gear leg just above the brake caliper where I was going to change over to braided stainless lines for the final 6" or so . I just bought new front brake lines for my '81 Gold Wing and it made me think I should be using stainless wrapped brake lines all the way from each master cylinder to the caliper.

The one piece brake line would take away two fittings that could leak and other than the additional weight is there any reason to not use braided stainless wrapped lines?
 
Larger then needed O.D. for the volume of fluid being moved? Or in other words,the drawback being a unavoidable slight expansion of the tubing wall (stainless clad or not, larger or small dia. or not) resulting in less PSI being delivered to the calipers. As compared to...... as small as dia. as possible all the way to the calipers. I'm not real worried about the 1/8" I use being ripped out by brush, that Nyla flo is tough stuff and I like the lesser air drag of that 1/8" line. Over 1,000 hrs since going to the small stuff with lots of off airport and no issues. Lighter, less drag, and a skootch more PSI at the calipers is why I use it. I do know I have real good braking power with my 29" Airstreaks and single puck Matco brakes. I know you have probably not ever seen (probably) 1/8" line on a Cub style aircraft, but I bet it'd work just fine and have the above advantages.

This MAY be one of those things, where old tech (larger then needed dia., because that's what's has always been used), is not as good as new tech. Did they have even 1/8" Nylaflo 50 or 60 years ago? Like using 1/8" wire rope for the control surfaces on a 1000 lb. aircraft, the last couple decades have proven that 3/32 is more then adequate for that job.
 
OK Courier...so...you think it's OK to use nylon for the entire brake system. Since I always do perfect landings and will never really need to jump on the double puck Matco's there won't be enough heat generated by a hard stop or just a lot of braking in hot weather on the gound to cause an issue with the nylon line...true?

I bought all I need for a full nylon system but I'm having second thoughts about the bottom end due to heat. I know the stainless wrapped lines are nylon inside but it seems the shield and stainless wrap will protect it from any high heat due to braking.

I'm an old dog but always happy to learn something new...thoughts please!
 
Light plane, with a low stall speed. LOTS less energy to shed, over heating has never been a concern. Never even thought of that as an issue to be perfectly honest. Ignorance must be bliiss as others I know with similar LSA types aren't losing their poly brake lines due to heat. I love stainless anything, but light it isn't. Just thought I'd suggest it as it works well on the lighter birds.
 
I would not be concerned with the effect of heat on the brake lines in our airplanes. Most of the heat will be in the brake disc. The rest of the brake components will only be warm. My concern with the type and size of the tubing (besides being compatible with the fluid type) would be that it is capable of carrying the proper pressure. This includes the connecting fittings. A secondary concern would be to protect it from physical damage which could be caused from "off road" use. The diameter would be irrelevant. Since there is very little flow through the tubing, a large diameter is not necessary. 1/8" would be adequate.
 
I think you are right about the heat. Sometimes I over think.

The concern I had was the protection of the line from where it exits the gear leg and runs to the caliper and I was planning to run shielded line for that segment. I know the nylon line will perform just fine elsewhere but I thought running a shielded line all the way from the master cylinder to the caliper would remove some leak potential...maybe it's overkill.

I am planning to use ATF for fluid vs brake fluid mainly due to the ease of cleanup and it won't kill paint. It is used extensively by others with apparently no issues. I've run it in motorcycles for years and it hasn't raised any compatibility problems that I can see. Matco's lawyers apparently say use certified fluid and apparently they aren't discussing experimental use of other fluids. I haven't talked to them personally.
 
skywagon8a said:
Low,
You should discuss this question with the DAR which you are going to use. The EAB requirements imply that you would need to advise FAA of the major change and then it will be up to them as to what you need to do.

I wouldn't arbitrarily place any speed restrictions on the floats. You will want to determine if any are needed during flight testing first. I tested and placarded my float VNE at 2 mph greater than Piper used for wheels and 17 mph greater than Piper used for the floats. I do not know why Piper lowered VNE 15 mph for the floats. In testing mine there was nothing noted which would cause the reduction.
Click to expand...

Sky,

I've had a number of conversations with folks from 3 different EAA chapters and at least in this area it is hard if not impossible to get "hypothetical" questions answered by DAR's. They apparently want to "see the problem" and I understand the reluctance to provide info on "what if" things. The suggestions have been don't ask questions of the FSDO because you won't like the answer.

I'm trying to make things as simple, yet comprehensive when it comes time for my inspection. We've not had good experiences lately with DAR's...one fellow played phone and email tag for 3 months trying to resolve paperwork issues on a factory kit build. In my case there have been some mods that shouldn't complicate anything but they aren't on the drawings...like adding flaps where none existed before, but then that's what experimental is all about...right!
 
Lowrider said:
... In my case there have been some mods that shouldn't complicate anything but they aren't on the drawings...like adding flaps where none existed before, but then that's what experimental is all about...right!
Click to expand...
There is nothing in the EAB requirements that say that you need drawings. You are not building someones approved kit in accordance with certain drawings. You are building a "Lowrider Offroader". Sometimes you refer to someone else's drawings for ideas. Don't over think this. And don't talk when you can listen and nod.
 
skywagon8a said:
There is nothing in the EAB requirements that say that you need drawings. You are not building someones approved kit in accordance with certain drawings. You are building a "Lowrider Offroader". Sometimes you refer to someone else's drawings for ideas. Don't over think this. And don't talk when you can listen and nod.
Click to expand...

Roger copy!
 
I'm going to use Kydex for interior side panels probably in Polar White. Is 0.028 too thin for that application? I can't find 0.040" kydex which I beleive has been used and the 0.060" seems heavier than necessary. I can roll beads in the kydex to stiffen it as necessary...maybe 24" OC.
 
I bought 2 sheets of 0.040" polar white from Laird Plastics...to my door it was $260. Seemed high me but I had to pay some "broken pallet" fees and white is hard to find I'm told and don't forget tax.

Anyway, when it arrives I'm going to try some of the tricks you folks have used to do interior panels and other uses for Kydex. Do you think a white holster for a Glock 23 is too sissy? #2 son just bought a new Glock 41, the long slide .45 ACP...shoots very nice...kinda like my G35.

1st question, is 350F the proper temp for molding 0.040" or should a lesser temp be used for this thickness? As always, your thoughts are most welcome.
 
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