Lowrider LSA

We're talking about the PST right?? It doesn't harden. Never had a leak, fuel, hydraulic, oil or household plumbing either.

irishfield said:

We're talking about the PST right?? It doesn't harden. Never had a leak, fuel, hydraulic, oil or household plumbing either.

Click to expand...

I'll go for it...can't get a better recommendation...thanks Irish!!

NAPA carries it up here..

Thanks Irish...just ordered it from Jeg's since I have other items I need.

I'm attaching the fuel lines to the tubing with Adel clamps and there is some stand-off from the tube and I really don't want to put too many clamps on the tube so I'm planning to squirt some RTV between the tube and fuel lines to stop vibration. Is this a common practice...any reasons why I shouldn't?

Ask yourself the question "Will this fuel carrying tube remain in place during a very hard landing, or worse, if the RTV becomes unstuck?". RTV doesn't always remain attached for reasons of it's own. IF the tube is satisfactorily secured without the RTV, then yes use it for possible chafe protection.

I believe the longest unsupported span would be about 2' from the top of the windshield to the bottom. The tube isn't going anywhere but the main reason I'm thinking of doing it is dampen vibration with maybe 3 dabs of RTV in that span to prevent movement. I'm not exactly sure how I'll trim the tube, but I'll probably try making kydex channel to slip over the fuel line and tube...at least that's my thought at the moment.

I'm still planning to set up a quick disconnect line to fill tanks from a 100 gallon fuel trailer with a 12v battery and 5 psi pump on the trailer. It will be attached to the feed line before the gascolator and the tank selection valve. There will be a valve on the engine side before the colator to prevent flow/pressure in that direction and the tank valve will determine which tank gets the fuel. It won't be quick thru 3/8" fuel line but will be easier than wing top fueling I believe...plug it in, turn it on and have some coffee while I watch the fuel gauge on the tank being filled. It might take a peek into the tank to make sure it's fully topped off. Away from home there will be the usual wing top filling. Main reason is there will be no fuel where I'll park so getting mogas will be from the local pump anyway. I plan to filter the fuel from the tank to the plane so it will be cleaner than what comes out of the pump.

2 feet should be fine with the attention to being sure that there are no sharp corners against the fuel line.

So, a single point refueling point. That will be unusual in a piston powered plane.

Seems only fair... if Boeing, Northrup, GenDy and so on can do it, so should I...besides that, humping 5 gal cans up on the wing is no fun. My last fuel trailer was pretty much the same thing but had a typical fuel hose and metered dispenser and I was forever getting black marks on the leading edge from the damn hose or the ladder was hitting the wing or something was wrong. Maybe, I'm older and wiser...we'll see!

The tubing to the two tanks is different lengths, so they won't fill evenly. You'll probably be monkeying around with fuel valves to get the distribution you want? And especially with the low flow rate, at some point you WILL get distracted or sidetracked while waiting and fetching your coffee, and will accidentally overflow the tanks. Please don't ask me how I know that - - -

Sounds like the voice of experience Gordon!!!

I was planning to fill one take at a time using the fuel selector valve to determine which one. I do get distracted from time to time but I'm finding fewer things that are distracting than when I was younger...especially women...although I'm not immune.

I built an air flow box to take hot air off the muff and direct it to the floor or the windshield as a defroster or both.

My first question is about the firewall penetration and how that can be made without compromising fire protection?

Second, has anyone ever used a fluid such as oil to pickup heat from the exhaust via a coil wrapped around the exhaust pipe and circulated inside the cabin to another coil and a small fan or outside air flow to extract the heat from the inner coil...just like a car heater core? It would be heavier than heating air in the muff but would probably be more efficient at heat transfer and could be extended to the rear seat also...and no CO poisoning potential.

Thoughts?

Low,

Use a stainless or other type of steel control box on the engine side of the fire wall.

For the second question. KISS

OK, but should the stainless box be offset from the firewall penetration to reduce the "straight thru" flow in case of fire? It seems the firewall hole should be as high as possible since the fire would most likely be low where the the fuel is located...but the heat comes from low under the engine too.

Gordon Misch said:

The tubing to the two tanks is different lengths, so they won't fill evenly. You'll probably be monkeying around with fuel valves to get the distribution you want? And especially with the low flow rate, at some point you WILL get distracted or sidetracked while waiting and fetching your coffee, and will accidentally overflow the tanks. Please don't ask me how I know that - - -

Click to expand...

I've been single point fueling my experimental for years, at least when I'm on a xc and getting my mogas via loaner cars and the Montague bike. Much easier to just pump it up into the mains (and they both fill evenly, even though the distribution lines differ in length) using the high volume fuel pump (www.summitracing.com) I already have installed under the pass. seat. My main use for it is to pump fuel from my ferry tank to the mains, but I recently made up another inlet for it, that quick disconnects with the same line used for the ferry tank. I hang the bush bag or jerry jugs from the over head and stick the finger strained diptube in the bag and then hit the panel mounted switch (with light) and turn a under seat valve. A few minutes later the pump sound changes and I know the transfer is complete. When I get the needed fuel pumped out of the bags, I re-connect the transfer line to the ferry tank, which allows me to inflight transfer fuel from it to the mains.

My fuel system vents under the wing, and the way it is set up, I can carelessly over fill it via up pumping, and no harm done as it just dribbles out on the ground, not on the wing and skylight. I actually do this on purpose, when wanting to max out my fuel load I'll run the pump until the wing sight gauge says full. But I know I can squeege another gallon in there so I keep pumping. Then I at some point rock the wings a bit and eyeball the vents, if no fuel comes out I keep pumping. The next time after a wing rock I may get a slight, just a few drops, of fuel out the vent, then I stop pumping, knowing I am fueled to the max. For me and my 4 GPH fuel burn rate (at most, often less) this pump system works great and I NEVER spill fuel on the wing or have to deal with the acrobatic involved in lifting a full fuel bag or jug up there. I'm getting older but smarter, I think? I do know I have a 8 to 12 hour duration with this setup, so though it's a bit more hassle then just filling up from the fuel island pump, I don't need to do it often and the big advantage for me is I get to use the preferred mo gas 100% of the time.

Lowrider said:

OK, but should the stainless box be offset from the firewall penetration to reduce the "straight thru" flow in case of fire? It seems the firewall hole should be as high as possible since the fire would most likely be low where the the fuel is located...but the heat comes from low under the engine too.

Click to expand...

The steel box contains a steel flapper/control valve which closes the firewall hole when shut off. Besides you will be more comfortable if the heat comes in near your feet and rises. If the heat came in high then your feet and legs would be cold all winter. I don't know about you, but when my feet and legs are cold, I'm cold.

Sky,

That makes sense and yes...feet cold...I'm cold!

Courier,

Sounds like I stole your fueling method without knowing it...great minds think alike.

I was going to put the pump on my trailer along with a battery to run it, but I certainly see the value of having it on board. I have given some thoughts about a belly pod with potential of another tank...maybe 12 gal. which would be about another 1.5 hr flight time with the 0-320 and I would need a pump on the plane to refill a main tank(s).

Have you had any issues with the wing vents? Guess they don't have check valves. Is there a loop or a high spot in the vent line before it exits (I guess under the wing).

No check valves, not needed, short of parking on a side slope when totally filled, and that's just something I avoid. And again if I somehow forget I have full fuel and I land a hill side and then park sideways (duh...) other then losing some fuel and killing some brush, no harm done.

Here's a new prototype pod that local composites whiz Joel Milloway is making. The plan is to hang them from the jury struts, one each side, or use one for a belly pod. Or, I guess, one on the belly and two under the wings. About 5' long, so a fair bit of interior space. One idea he is bouncing around is to have a telescoping aluminum tube frame that would join two pods together in such a way that you now have a mini pontoon boat complete with oarlocks! Seriously....think of it, you get somewhere, take your gear out of the pods, and minutes later you're rowing off. The boat seat could be the pilot seat, as at least in the RANS they pop right out with a couple pip pins.

Courier,

You're using nylon fuel lines...right?

That's pretty cool!! #2 son made a fishing float with two plastic 30 gal barrels and some conduit that fits in our CRV when disassembled. It works pretty well for one person so your friend's idea is sound.

I have toyed with the idea of an 8' kayak as a belly pod with a couple straps and a bolt or two holding it on the belly. Fill it up with stuff and when you get to that special mountain lake strip, unload and throw the kayak in the lake and go fishing....more thought needed but the concept seems OK.

Looks like you have the same beautiful weather we're having...mid 70's and mid 20's on humidity...what's not to like!!

I'm using that blue line they sell at the motorcycle and ATV shops, and have for over 30 years now, with zero problems or issues. I only need 1/4".

I use that on all kinds of stuff...just put a little piece on a Stihl...guess it's good enough for a plane too.

Courier,

What kind of quick disconnect are you using and how big is your pump (not meant to be a personal question)?

I got the QD through California Power Supply/Air wolf. It auto seals both ends with a spring loaded ball valve. larger ones available any good marine shop.
I paid about 100 or 120 for the pump, its a house brand by Summit. Not sure of size.

OK...boat QD fittings. My pump is from Jeg's, Holley, 60 GPH at 5.5 psi. I have another left over from a shoehorn 350 Chevy into a '49 CJ2A but it's a 60 psi and it's too powerful. I'm thinking maybe half hour to fill an empty 20 gal tank...time for coffee and bacon and egg sandwich.

I suppose if I get in a hurry, I can pump thru a hose directly into the tank with just an extension hose.

Did you ever consider a special filler cap with connections for two hoses? One for filling and the other back to your barrel for overflow when full. Eliminate all of your fuselage extra plumbing.

No Sir... but that's a great idea!! Other than needing a ladder to use it, it would be pretty simple and could include a flow switch on the return line that would turn off the pump when it sensed a full tank...allowing for a full breakfast and not just a breakfast burrito. That would remove the heaviest part of the system...the pump. I was going to power it from a marine battery on the trailer for routine use but still have it on the plane if I choose to use a aux tank in the plane or a pod...gotta think about that.

Thanks Sky!!

Low your adding weight and complexity to your ride again. I have hauled over 17,000 gals in cans, 4,000 of that down a 18" x 200' boardwalk over a swamp. I used to use cans that held 7 gals, then 5 gal cans, now I use 3 gal cans, not that big of a deal. Sure my arms are a little longer but I don't have to bend over as far to pick things up.

Glenn

I feel your pain Glenn!! One of the reasons I want to do the system that doesn't require a ladder is I fell off an icy wooden ladder last year with one of those red 5 gal cans...got splashed with gas and learned I don't bounce near as well as I did when I was younger. Not something I want to repeat.

Pump weights 1.8 lbs and the extra tubing is a few ounces, some wire, a switch and breaker...I'll eat the weight and complexity is just a QD fitting and an extra valve between the tank selection valve and the colator/drain so it really isn't much extra. I am going to give Sky's idea some consideration but it requires a ladder. The single fuel point seems to be the safest for a clumsy old plane driver.

Low you just need a better ladder

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Giant-Safety-Aluminum-Step-Ladder-4-Step-10410ba-/281607144939

Glenn

Easy for you to say...cute ladder!!

I'm on with my orthopedic surgeon in a week or so to find out what he can do with the shoulder I fell on. I'm not happy since he may want to cut and that will ruin my upcoming bow season as well as it being my casting arm so my fly rods will get a rest too...will not stop production on the plane I think.