Lowrider LSA
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I would not mess up a new gas tank with Proseal. Make it right at the beginning. One spot above the left red light, another above/between the white and right red and the third at the lower corner between white and right red. Just re-weld those spots and you would be fine. Make those three spots look like the rest of the bead. This is meant to be constructive criticism only if this were a fuel tank. For this purpose it is great.
It's 60* here. Expecting it to get into the 30s by Saturday.
It's 60* here. Expecting it to get into the 30s by Saturday.
I don't mean to impose on anyone, but if you could check your pockets and see if someone has an 0320-H2AD crank in there. If you find one, please measure from the outside of the front oil seal to the face of the crank flange where the prop goes. My crank is off getting yellow tagged and I can't find the measurement anywhere. I'm trying to get things set up to weld my engine mounts.
Thanks in advance!!
Sky,
I have one of the landing lights you suggested mounted in my left wing pointing in and down a bit and run thru the strobe controller. Wow...that's pretty bright and should also work as a landing light up close. The other light goes in the right wing in the same location, just outside of the strut attach point. Thanks for the suggestion.
Thanks in advance!!
Sky,
I have one of the landing lights you suggested mounted in my left wing pointing in and down a bit and run thru the strobe controller. Wow...that's pretty bright and should also work as a landing light up close. The other light goes in the right wing in the same location, just outside of the strut attach point. Thanks for the suggestion.
For the antenna guru's out there...43.13 (para 310) shows a method of mounting comm antennas on non-conductive surfaces such as wood or fabric skinned planes using a metal foil ground plane under the fabric.
My plane is tube and fabric on the fuselage with alum skinned wings. I thought the best location for good signal propagation in 360* would be the center of the fuselage just aft of the skylight using the foil ground plane which seems difficult and delicate to construct. Apparently, you can also use alum window screen to create a ground plane under fabric. The ground plane should be equal to the 1/4 wave signal length or roughly 24".
After thinking about this for several days the better location may be where Cessna and other metal planes place antennas, on the metal wing skin with a backing plate attached to the wing ribs. I would probably put it outboard of the fuel tank on the left wing and I only plan to use one comm antenna.
Also, 43.13 wants 0.003 ohms between the antenna base plate and ground. I'm grounding the wings and all metal within the plane so the machine screws holding the antenna to the wing skin/backing plate should provide pretty much no resistance...right?
What do you folks with real antenna knowledge think about this? Antennas have always been a "black science" to me and I believe if you don't hold your mouth correctly the transmitted signal is lost in space somewhere...may be fairy dust involved too.
My plane is tube and fabric on the fuselage with alum skinned wings. I thought the best location for good signal propagation in 360* would be the center of the fuselage just aft of the skylight using the foil ground plane which seems difficult and delicate to construct. Apparently, you can also use alum window screen to create a ground plane under fabric. The ground plane should be equal to the 1/4 wave signal length or roughly 24".
After thinking about this for several days the better location may be where Cessna and other metal planes place antennas, on the metal wing skin with a backing plate attached to the wing ribs. I would probably put it outboard of the fuel tank on the left wing and I only plan to use one comm antenna.
Also, 43.13 wants 0.003 ohms between the antenna base plate and ground. I'm grounding the wings and all metal within the plane so the machine screws holding the antenna to the wing skin/backing plate should provide pretty much no resistance...right?
What do you folks with real antenna knowledge think about this? Antennas have always been a "black science" to me and I believe if you don't hold your mouth correctly the transmitted signal is lost in space somewhere...may be fairy dust involved too.
No no it's nothing crazy like science or fairy dust. I was told its voodoo and black magic.
I have been looking at the flat strip antennae that mount inside the wing tip or vertical inside the tail fin. Havent been able to find any people with first hand experience with them though...
Anybody else?
I have been looking at the flat strip antennae that mount inside the wing tip or vertical inside the tail fin. Havent been able to find any people with first hand experience with them though...
Anybody else?
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I was told by one of the owners of an aircraft radio manufacturer that the antenna would work just fine if it was mounted inside the steel tube fuselage. I never installed it so can not say one way or another. Yes there has been discussion on here by some of our (SCers) refuting what I was told. I'm no electronic expert by a long shot, but if your use is not going to be for long range communication why not? What do you expect the maximum distance of your communication to be, 50 miles? Less? VHF is line of sight. How far can you see in the mountains of Idaho? Go ahead radio guys, hit me.
Probably 20 miles or less in most cases. I've read about the antennas that are designed for the wing tips and also a vertical tapes that go into composite vert stab...usually to reduce drag on higher speed planes. I've also read about the less lead distance from antenna to radio means less line loss of the signal and better output. Everyone seems to have an opinion depending upon what they are selling, not all of which agree. I get lost (or board) quickly when the discussion gets technical in nature.
I want a short cable run and an antenna location that gives good 360* coverage for transmission...that's all. Receiver coverage is usually pretty good if another strong antenna is broadcasting. I'm planning to use portable VHF nav/comm radio with 99% nav via GPS on a separate antenna mounted on the rooooof.
I want a short cable run and an antenna location that gives good 360* coverage for transmission...that's all. Receiver coverage is usually pretty good if another strong antenna is broadcasting. I'm planning to use portable VHF nav/comm radio with 99% nav via GPS on a separate antenna mounted on the rooooof.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Some of the J3 guys have mounted them on a wooden stick and tie wrapped them on a vertical diagonal behind the back seat with good luck.
Glenn
No ideas from the antenna experts?
Glenn,
I've given some thought to taping the wire antenna to the inside of the fabric once I get that applied so it would be easy to put a full wave antenna along the fuselage horizontally. Would that work or must they be vertical? What acts as a ground plane?
Glenn,
I've given some thought to taping the wire antenna to the inside of the fabric once I get that applied so it would be easy to put a full wave antenna along the fuselage horizontally. Would that work or must they be vertical? What acts as a ground plane?
No antenna experts I presume!
Another subject...I have roughed in the push/pull cable to control my elevator trim tab and I'm here to tell you it works great!! No play, no slack, not the least bit of delay in the control of the trim tab. I can make very small movements on the order of an 1/8" and get exactly the same movement on the trim tab. These cables give very precise control of whatever you are using them to activate. They move with little effort to the point that I will be putting a friction control on the trim lever that will be mounted adjacent to the throttle. SO far, they are the way to go for sure.
Another subject...I have roughed in the push/pull cable to control my elevator trim tab and I'm here to tell you it works great!! No play, no slack, not the least bit of delay in the control of the trim tab. I can make very small movements on the order of an 1/8" and get exactly the same movement on the trim tab. These cables give very precise control of whatever you are using them to activate. They move with little effort to the point that I will be putting a friction control on the trim lever that will be mounted adjacent to the throttle. SO far, they are the way to go for sure.
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
The tele flex type cable ( pretty sure that's what you 're referring to) have worked great for 20 years/2800 hours on my two different Rans S-7's. In my case, being used for flap control. Bit heavy, maybe, but they seem to be pretty bullet proof.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
I wouldn't make the trim with a 1 to 1 ratio between handle and tab. Its just to sensitive and you will chase it when trying to trim in cruise. A 1/32" of movement or less will be all you need between 100fpm and level. My Vagabond had 2 bowden cables for trim and took just a light tap on the handle to fine tune it. Tough in smooth air and a real pain when bumpy.
Glenn
Glenn
Courier,
Yes Sir, tele-flex. I'm using them for rudder, elevator, ailerons and trim. They seem to be the perfect solution for simple push/pull, although the rudder will be be pull only and the elevator is run by a bell crank. I'm using the PTFE lined case and they are slick as greased owl poop...I like em!!
Glenn,
Good info! I had thought I'd make a trim lever that has several holes to attach the cable so I can pick which works best after I get it into the air. The cables sure give immediate feedback too so I'll be able to figure out if they are too sensitive and I can adjust. Not sure why everyone isn't using them...they are easy to install and cheap enough you could replace them every few years or so if you wanted. I haven't weighed them, but they must be lighter than cables and pulleys.
Yes Sir, tele-flex. I'm using them for rudder, elevator, ailerons and trim. They seem to be the perfect solution for simple push/pull, although the rudder will be be pull only and the elevator is run by a bell crank. I'm using the PTFE lined case and they are slick as greased owl poop...I like em!!
Glenn,
Good info! I had thought I'd make a trim lever that has several holes to attach the cable so I can pick which works best after I get it into the air. The cables sure give immediate feedback too so I'll be able to figure out if they are too sensitive and I can adjust. Not sure why everyone isn't using them...they are easy to install and cheap enough you could replace them every few years or so if you wanted. I haven't weighed them, but they must be lighter than cables and pulleys.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Low,
tele-flex, I get it they are nice devices. The rudder is to be pull only, that means two tele-flexes. Do I understand correctly that there are two tele-flexes for each control surface operating in "pull"? Or do the ailerons and elevator have one tele-flex each functioning as push/pull? If it is the latter, which direction of the elevator and the ailerons do you think has the highest flight load? Is that the side to which you have attached the tele-flex?
tele-flex, I get it they are nice devices. The rudder is to be pull only, that means two tele-flexes. Do I understand correctly that there are two tele-flexes for each control surface operating in "pull"? Or do the ailerons and elevator have one tele-flex each functioning as push/pull? If it is the latter, which direction of the elevator and the ailerons do you think has the highest flight load? Is that the side to which you have attached the tele-flex?
Sky,
The rudder has a cable on each pedal which is pull only. The elevator has one which is pull in the up direction which I believe takes the most effort and actually, each aileron gets one, so they are pulling the aileron up and the opposite aileron will push down at the same time. The way I designed the control stick there is adjustment there and also at the bell crank at the aileron control rod so I can change the movement ratio up and down if necessary. I don't want the control surfaces to be too sensitive so during the "fly in" period I can make changes to them...same with the elevator. The rudder is 1:1 since my feet can push a lot and hopefully won't need a trim tab. Rudder shouldn't be THAT difficult to deflect.
I don't know if there is a "push" rating on the cables but I did a couple tests with my old boat cables before I decided to use the tele-flex cables and found I can easily push a 25lb bag of lead shot in a coffee can across a concrete floor which is difficult to do with your foot. Not very scientific but it did prove to me they have significant strength in the push mode. The mechanical advantage gained thru the bell crank will also reduce the pressure needed to move the aileron in the down position.
The rudder has a cable on each pedal which is pull only. The elevator has one which is pull in the up direction which I believe takes the most effort and actually, each aileron gets one, so they are pulling the aileron up and the opposite aileron will push down at the same time. The way I designed the control stick there is adjustment there and also at the bell crank at the aileron control rod so I can change the movement ratio up and down if necessary. I don't want the control surfaces to be too sensitive so during the "fly in" period I can make changes to them...same with the elevator. The rudder is 1:1 since my feet can push a lot and hopefully won't need a trim tab. Rudder shouldn't be THAT difficult to deflect.
I don't know if there is a "push" rating on the cables but I did a couple tests with my old boat cables before I decided to use the tele-flex cables and found I can easily push a 25lb bag of lead shot in a coffee can across a concrete floor which is difficult to do with your foot. Not very scientific but it did prove to me they have significant strength in the push mode. The mechanical advantage gained thru the bell crank will also reduce the pressure needed to move the aileron in the down position.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
I'm curious as to what the linear expansion and contraction is with a 120F difference in flying temps. You might be adjusting tension every season?
Glenn
Glenn
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Low,
I am following your thinking. Keep in mind that the flight loads on an aileron are such that they float up on their own. The highest loads would be when pulling down. If it were me, doing what you are doing, I would attach the tele-flex so that it pulls the ailerons down and pushes up.
I am following your thinking. Keep in mind that the flight loads on an aileron are such that they float up on their own. The highest loads would be when pulling down. If it were me, doing what you are doing, I would attach the tele-flex so that it pulls the ailerons down and pushes up.
Glenn,
The cable drive is stainless so I would guess any expand/contract would be in the "noise"...maybe in the ten thousands per foot or something like that. I'm sure that info is available, but I figured it would not have any effect on control surfaces since the "neutral" position of the stick or rudder pedals is very difficult to determine. The trim would work the same way I believe.
The cable drive is stainless so I would guess any expand/contract would be in the "noise"...maybe in the ten thousands per foot or something like that. I'm sure that info is available, but I figured it would not have any effect on control surfaces since the "neutral" position of the stick or rudder pedals is very difficult to determine. The trim would work the same way I believe.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I think that Glenn is pulling your chain. ;-)
I'm also a bit uneasy with only one on the elevators. Which needs more authority, tail down for landing or nose down for stall recovery?
I'm also a bit uneasy with only one on the elevators. Which needs more authority, tail down for landing or nose down for stall recovery?
You think Glenn would do that??
I guess both are kinda important...I could put another cable on a bell crank operated by a rod behind the seat but then I couldn't sleep on the floor with the rear seat out...how important is that?
How would reducing the balance weight on the elevator effect potential flutter?? The less balance weight forward, the less effort the elevator would need to be pushed down.
I guess both are kinda important...I could put another cable on a bell crank operated by a rod behind the seat but then I couldn't sleep on the floor with the rear seat out...how important is that?
How would reducing the balance weight on the elevator effect potential flutter?? The less balance weight forward, the less effort the elevator would need to be pushed down.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Sleeping on the floor is a personal choice.
Removing balance weight for improved flutter resistance is a no no. That is just the opposite of what should be done. There has been a lot of discussion here about flutter. Are your elevators balanced aerodynamically like a Super Cub, TriPacer or Citabria? That balance area ahead of the hinge line helps to offset flutter tendencies and reduces the amount of force required to move the elevator in addition to increasing the surface area.
Removing balance weight for improved flutter resistance is a no no. That is just the opposite of what should be done. There has been a lot of discussion here about flutter. Are your elevators balanced aerodynamically like a Super Cub, TriPacer or Citabria? That balance area ahead of the hinge line helps to offset flutter tendencies and reduces the amount of force required to move the elevator in addition to increasing the surface area.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I'm not following your thinking here. It's not operating against gravity. The elevator is trailing in the airstream behind the hinges. I'm not positive but I think that the forces will be the same in both directions. Some unusual flight attitudes might be different.
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
My teleflex cable operated flaps are still rigged perfect, I don't think changes with the temps matters much or at all. Weight and cost are why we don't see them used more in ex.
Sky,
I'm wrong about the thought that forward weighting on the elevator would change the effort required to move the elevator...disregard. Given a neutral weighting of the elevator, what would the best way to "push" the elevator...up or down?
Courier,
I'll weigh my longest cable, but I can't make a comparison since I don't have twisted cable, pulleys, mounting brackets and guards that would be used in usual control install. My guess is the tele-flex is less weight.
I'm wrong about the thought that forward weighting on the elevator would change the effort required to move the elevator...disregard. Given a neutral weighting of the elevator, what would the best way to "push" the elevator...up or down?
Courier,
I'll weigh my longest cable, but I can't make a comparison since I don't have twisted cable, pulleys, mounting brackets and guards that would be used in usual control install. My guess is the tele-flex is less weight.
