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Thread: Lowrider LSA

  1. #1241
    Lowrider
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    Yes Sir...got the picture!!

    I made a hard foam mandrel last night for the front contour but it wasn't strong enough to bend the 2024. It's easy to make with a wood rasp and it made me think fiberglass might be the answer for the front. Your way with the alum will be easier than the way I tried to make it...don't stop with the good ideas. Maybe you need to write a book with lots of pictures!!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  2. #1242
    Lowrider
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    Courier,

    I'm going to try making something like Sky suggested for the LE and see how it turns out. Sure is a lot of spring in 2024!! I need to order some 3/8" tube so it will be awhile before I get to that fab.

    Tail feathers are well on the way and will be ready for filler soon but will still need to build my spray booth before I can get them ready for paint. I have a trailer conversion project in the shop that I need to finish before I have room for the paint booth because of window exhaust location...one snow go broke over the weekend so it needs work as well. Never a shortage of things to do in retirement!!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  3. #1243
    Monte's Avatar
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    Check out how Luscombe did it.
    they used .024 (I think) two bolts in front strut and then the TE is screwed together. Very handy to remove for gear instpection or repairClick image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Monte; 01-26-2015 at 12:15 PM. Reason: clarification

  4. #1244
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Good idea Monte. Do you have any idea of what those two screws go into which seem to be lined up with the main steel tube? They are not shown in the uncovered picture. The last Champions, before they went to leaf spring gear, had a similar setup for a gear fairing.
    N1PA

  5. #1245
    Lowrider
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    I'll roger that....great idea Monte. I'm thinking there must be some support structure however light inside to attach to the gear. That paint job give you at least 5 knots!

    Thanks Monte!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  6. #1246
    Lowrider
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    For you fabric folks...after you do the 250*, 300* and 350* shrinks is there a way to make sure the fabric is properly shrunk? I have been doing the 350* until all the bays sound the same or close to it when they are flicked with a finger. I know that's not very scientific but that's how #3 son tunes his drums. I like fabric fine but alum doesn't need to be shrunk.

    So far my wife and I are big fans of the Stewart's System but she did say she missed getting high from the fumes...don't ask.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  7. #1247
    Monte's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=skywagon8a;620256] those two screws go into which seem to be lined up with the main steel tube? They are not shown in the uncovered picture.

    Those are long -3 bolts that go clear through the gear leg and they are what hold the fairing on the gear.

  8. #1248
    Monte's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Lowrider;620285]I'll roger that....great idea Monte. I'm thinking there must be some support structure however light inside to attach to the gear. That paint job give you at least 5 knots!

    NO support structure inside. Think LIGHT weight. The paint job is on Bill Bradford's clipped wing Luscombe.

  9. #1249
    Lowrider
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    Monte,

    Thanks for the comments. I'm thinking if I try to do that style of fairing it will require 2 or probably 3 tabs welded on the inside of the front leg for the bolts to run thru and something inside to keep the fairing from getting squeezed together when the bolts are tightened. I like the way it looks and is simple if I can get the alum bent properly in the front...the rear part looks like it will take care of itself with the screws.

    I ordered the 1/4" tube before I saw this style fairing and the fabric will be easier but the alum really looks nice and that type will also work on the my die springs...thinking and playing with options.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  10. #1250
    Monte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monte View Post
    Check out how Luscombe did it.
    they used .024 (I think) two bolts in front strut and then the TE is screwed together. Very handy to remove for gear instpection or repairClick image for larger version. 

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    I dug one out of the hangar; The one I found was .032 and weighs 2.25 lbs. Also looked at a friends and his is held on by 4 screws instead of the an-3 bolts all the way through. The pics are of the skirt, hopefully the cub wheel will help with orientation.
    The nose is a one inch diameter
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Monte; 01-30-2015 at 01:32 PM. Reason: radius

  11. #1251

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    Biult landing gear fairings from 2024 .016 aluminum. I just secured them at the top wrapped them and screwed together at the rear. Of course you need to make the front bend with a slot bender or whatever. These were just fine form for about 500 hours.

  12. #1252

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    032 would work real fine on a B-52.

  13. #1253

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    Shrink your fabric to 350 and then don't worry about it.

  14. #1254
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Are any flying yet ?
    There are at least two that are flying; one is the one of Mark Goldberg covered in Oratex; it was in Oshkosh 2014 and also in Florida this January at Sebring...See here... I also have a video of it on my UTube channel and more photos of it on our BAF-website...
    Last edited by Lars Gleitsmann; 01-30-2015 at 06:19 PM. Reason: typo

  15. #1255
    Lowrider
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    Thanks Monte!

    0.032 might be a tad thicker than even I might use but the idea is sound. I played with some 0.016 today and I accidentally dropped my seamers on the side of the fairing laying on the table and it dented big time. I was thinking 0.020 would work better. The 1" nose diameter bend is good info and should make it easier than trying to make an airfoil shape.

    #2 son is making a sheet of carbon fiber to see if it will shape properly and bend as needed...we'll see if that works...confidence level is low.

    I'm still waiting for my CM rod and I think the fabric fairing might be more likely to bounce back from a rock or stick or whatever might get flung at the fairing.

    Thanks Don, 350* it is
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  16. #1256
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    Quick shot of floor rough-in. Areas in the back with rear seat removed is 6' +/- so us shorter guys can sleep in there if you choose. Hooks on the sides are fishing pole holders and they extend back into the tail so a 10' fly rod will fit if needed.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's 5mm luan and once fitted completely it will get a layer of fiberglass and resin making it pretty damn strong, quiet and not too heavy. The texture of the fiberglass cloth also puts a "anti-skid/slip" layer so it will be a lot safer to move inside the plane. The areas under pedals will get a piece of 0.025 alum with countersunk screws to make it easier to slide your feet on the brakes and rudder pedals.

    I was going to use 1/4" thick T&G cedar but it turned out to be a real pain in the butt to get 1" wide pieces straight and properly aligned so I went to a much easier medium. They are left over from a cedar kayak project...sure looks pretty with fiberglass and resin over top of it!!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  17. #1257
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I thought fiberglass would have to be under or on the bottom of the wood to make it stronger from above ?

    Glenn

  18. #1258
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Not if it is properly bonded to the plywood.

    Eddie
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  19. #1259
    Lowrider
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    I'm not an expert but I believe Eddie is correct. I took a 2' square piece of the wood, put glass on the top and soaked the wood with epoxy resin and when it cured, I can bounce on it when suspended on the edges. I'm down to 180 or so but I did bend it pretty good and it didn't break...good enough for me.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  20. #1260
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Low,
    You may find this entertaining and informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=q_eMQvDoDWk This video brought to mind the Bellanca Airbus. http://theaircache.com/2013/11/21/c-...us-aircruiser/ Giuseppe Bellanca was a genius at squeezing low drag performance out of an airframe. This gave me the thought that perhaps you could shape your gear fairings to provide a little outboard/upward lift as well as reducing some drag.
    N1PA

  21. #1261
    Lowrider
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    Sky,

    Very interesting video and it sure makes you wonder why leading edge slats/slots aren't on every wing...cost and complexity I suppose. The different shapes sure go to show there were pretty advanced aerodynamic studies underway long before NASA came along. It would have been interesting to compare leading edge devices with VG's and see how much they really benefit airflow and keep it on the wing top at high AOA. VG's are certainly cheaper and easier to employ than the slats/slots.

    My gear legs are much more vertical than the ones used on the Ballancas so I'm not sure if it's possible to get any real lift from them even with an airfoil shape. I'll be happy with just getting rid of the drag. I'm still playing with how to get 0.020 2024 bent just right before I cut larger chunks of material. The smaller pieces are much easier to bend correctly and I'm using poster paper to make patterns. I still think there needs to be some substructure to support the fairing on the gear legs. I think using the 1/4" tube will provide the support but then just using fabric instead of the 2024 seems to be the best solution for ease of construction. I do like the idea that the fairing can be removed or opened up for inspection or in case there is an issue with brake lines.

    Thanks for sharing the video and pictures!!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  22. #1262
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    There are lots and lots of NACA reports and videos on line for the viewing on all sorts of stuff aviation. Back when EAA started producing publications (early 1960s) other than the magazine they put out several booklets that were reprints of early aviation aerodynamics and structures. Lots of good stuff. Most of what we know today relative to our Cub type of aviation was documented in the first half of the last century. Yes there are some newer developments, but the basics were all here then.
    N1PA

  23. #1263
    Lowrider
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    You're right Sky, I have stolen some really good videos from EAA that I made into presentations when I was teaching ground school and CAP cadet training. It's always easier for kids to learn from movies and it took some of the load off me in trying to explain things.

    One problem I find in NASA stuff is they are very elementary or so complex I can't understand them...maybe it's just me.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  24. #1264
    Lowrider
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    OK....I've tried acetone, mineral spirits, alcohol, soap and hot water and my fingernails and nothing will seem to take the Stewart's glue off my little iron. I'm really glad this stuff sticks really well but not to my iron. Is there a secret solution someone familiar with the process might want to share with me??
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  25. #1265
    dougsappllc's Avatar
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    MEK will cause it to curdle up and if you rub it around it will take it off-- your iron that is. I wouldn't be putting it on your hands, especially your fingernails. I bought a bunch of the wine colored scotch brights and just about wore the sole off my little iron cleaning it. I found that if I turned it up it cleaned better than when cold.

    To this same point, no one has been able to give me a good (read logical) answer as to the process to prep the fuselage of a aircraft previously done with Stewart's? Anyone out here have any first hand knowledge? Not that I need to do it, but if there is a way to wholesale remove the glue I like to know what it is. And no, burning it off won't work, especially if your powder coated.

  26. #1266
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    Use an rubber belt dresser

  27. #1267
    Lowrider
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    Thanks Doug and Bear!!

    I thought about MEK but I don't keep the stuff around unless I need it. I'd have never guessed a belt dresser...live and learn from those smarter than me!!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  28. #1268
    Lowrider
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    Does anyone know where to get the list of parts needed to rebuild a MA-4 SPA carb? I need the one piece venturi for sure.

  29. #1269

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    Being EX you can do a lot of work with the one pice venturi to make it flow better. If you do be prepared to drill out the nozzle. I would not do any cab mods without a 4 cylinder EGT/CHT. Small changes on baffling, intake, carb, and most anything else can have huge effect on your CHT/EGT temps. From what I have seen on cubs that have them I would not build a cub without one. Stock or modified.
    DENNY

  30. #1270
    Lowrider
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    Thanks Denny!

    I was planning a single lead EGT/CHT but I suppose the 4 cyl would give a lot better info.

    Do you know where there is info related to the mods for the venturi? I've done lots of auto and motorcycle carbs and the Marvel is dead simple, but I'd like to do some studying and learning before I start.

  31. #1271
    Lowrider
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    Or, any thoughts on the use of throttle bodies or fuel injection systems? I used a computer control system on a '49 CJ-2A jeep I rebuilt that was made by Holley that went on a 350 Chevy I built and it had an altitude compensator. That was 15 years ago so there must be other newer injection systems out there that would work on an 0-320 in an airplane. Any ideas for a reasonable price???

  32. #1272

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    Lowrider
    The 4 cylinder EGT/CHT is the way to go! otherwise you have to land switch probes (drill new hole in exhaust) than repeat flight test just to see how things are running. Than pull carb drill nozzle and repeat. with 4 more test flights. It helps with finding fouled plug also only take a few seconds with mag check to see cold cylinder. Do a search google search on venturi modification supercub.org and you will find some stuff form 06 I think the time frame was.
    DENNY

  33. #1273
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Low, I am a fan of fuel injection and electronic ignition for better fuel economy and the elimination of carburetor ice. The electronic ignition gives smoother running and starting than mags.
    This is a combination of both system.
    http://www.flyefii.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UcepyteB1o

    I had these folks overhaul my fuel injection system. I am a pleased customer. www.AirflowPerformance.com They also build injection systems for experimentals.

    Are you able to mount a fuel pump on your -H engine? If not you will need a full time electric pump or some ingenuity.

    Also don't even think about a single point EGT/CHT. All cylinders or nothing. The advantages are numerous.
    N1PA

  34. #1274
    Lowrider
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    I'm on board with 4 by sensors.

    Unk on mech fuel pump. Electric will require an alternator for sure.

    I'll give those folks a call and see what they have to say. I was planning on Light SPeed ignition but an integrated system would be better if it included FI. Any thoughts on Ellison throttle body?

  35. #1275
    knucles's Avatar
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    Check out this throttle body,

    http://rotectbi.com

  36. #1276
    Lowrider
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    Thanks Knuckles!!

    Interesting and it will run on auto gas unlike the Ellison TB. You would think Ellison would upgrade their products to handle car gas.

    I sent an email to Rotec for price and which model would fit my application best.

  37. #1277
    Lowrider
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    Rotec responded quickly and in some detail...portion is below Thoughts???:

    Rotec are pleased to announce the release of its new Mk2 series of TBI. Like the previous series the Mk2 range will continue to cover 34,40 and 48 mm diameter bore sizes at the same horse power ranges. Also the same variety of engine mounting will be retained, ie -R, -S, -2, -3, -4, -4/5. From the small VW right through to the O-540, we have them all covered.

    The Mk2 series offers the same reliable performance and follows the exact same principles as the Mk1 series. The main differences are that we have now incorporated the metering regulator which was previously a separate item. On the Mk2 the fuel metering regulator is integral with the main throttle body.

    We have also moved the idle mixture screw to the opposite side of the unit and away from the throttle cable thus making adjustment easier and more accessible.

    We have also developed a different slide sealing system and the slide seals are now longer in length and captivated by roll pins as opposed to pesky start clips.

    We have also added some etched decals around the unit to help the user identify the various functions and adjustments required set up and operate the unit.

    The Mk2 series TBI is identical in its flange to flange length as the previous model, the new unit has been designed to be very compact and with the complete metering regulator now built in, yet the transverse length has only increased by a ¼”.

    Our unit is almost identical to the Ellison which we tested and were impressed with. So we decided to make our own which we think is even better! Certainly a lot cheaper and spare parts are worth only a few bucks. Reason for this is, unlike the Ellison unit, we make the entire unit in-house whereas they shop out most of the job.

    The Rotec TBI is a very simple system that works so well. Remember this system is NOTHING like the Aero carb or other Posa derivatives which are, to be frank, impossible to set up and downright dangerous.

    The Rotec TBI is set up free, just organize your throttle and mixture cable. You will have full mixture control from a properly metered, single point mechanical fuel injection throttle body. The dynamic metering device is the secret, this constantly adjusts fuel pressure in relationship to engine power and fuel demand. The Posa types DON’T do this.

    Auto gas is ok. Avgas is ok. No problems at all with auto gas, but you must keep the fuel lines covered with a sleeve to keep them cool and away from any potential vapor lock caused by excessive heat - our unit has the ability to clear vapor lock whereas the Ellison does not have a flow valve bi-pass like ours does. Our unit has a primer system built in which basically overrides the flow control valve opening fully which is great for priming and also for clearing any vapor lock. (Not that we have seen any to date nor have our customers reported any instances of VL) .

    Gravity feed is ok too, but if you intend on doing aerobatics then you will need a simple low pressure fuel pump - either driven off the engine or an electric boost pump.
    Last edited by Lowrider; 02-23-2015 at 08:18 PM.

  38. #1278
    knucles's Avatar
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    I have already purchased one for my supercub

  39. #1279

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    If you go single cylinder injectors you should be able to tune the injector to the cylinder!!! that is what GAMI does with the continenals. I think that is best bank for the buck power wise.
    DENNY

  40. #1280
    Lowrider
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    Knucles,

    Did you buy the Mk2, size 4? Do you have it in hand and if so, how does the quality look?

    Denny,

    Agreed. There is certainly a lot of fine tuning that can be done with integrated systems. I also like the simplicity of the single throttle body and a programable ignition system to match spark to power needs. What to do, what to do?

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