Bear Protection

[Bill Rusk]

Folks

Can you imagine trying to stop a 1300 pound bear charging at you with a single shot bolt action rifle? Remember, it is a moving target and even if you hit it, will that one shot be so perfectly placed as to stop it? I am not very fond of the idea of going into the wilderness of Alaska or Canada with a can of bear spray. I am not afraid of dying (Thanks to Jesus) but I really don't think it would be fun to die by being eaten. Feeling my skin being ripped off, arms and legs torn off. Lots of pain before you finally pass out. No thanks.

I think the best thing is a multiple shot, like 6 or 8, shotgun, preferably semi-auto so I don't have to pump in my panic. I am very concerned that some folks in Washington will leave me defenseless and make participating in wilderness camping far more dangerous. I do not believe for one moment that they will not try to get ALL they can and more.

This is a very neat website that will help you contact your reps.

http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/#

One link will give you all your reps names and contact info

Another link will automatically send a letter to all your reps. It is REALLY cool and only takes a moment.

This is not about Rant and Rave, it is about being able to go into the wilderness with something other than a slingshot.

Thank you

Bill

[gregory]

Good link. Thanks Bill.

[NimpoCub]

I really don't think it would be fun to die by being eaten. Feeling my skin being ripped off, arms and legs torn off.

Bill, where's your sense of adventure? There is risk in flying (YOU know that ) and risk in facing a bear w/a slingshot!
Welcome to Canada... try to get north of Idaho this time.

[aktango58]

Bill,

You are at a much higher risk, being such a nice man with humble persona.

If you were tough and mean, the bears would ignore you as being not so tasty.

Rule one of bears, it is not a big deal being fast, just faster than the mates with you

Best bear protection in the world is a dog that will bark at them.

Next, is your mind set.

I have only been really afraid twice in my life. Had many bears within 50'. I have only shot one bear for defense. It was tearing up my cabin, so needed to go.

Get a pump shot gun. It will work when wet, dirty, rusty and frozen. Autos will jam.

Mossberg 500 series. Don't worry, after three or four shells, you are out of the hot water one way or another.

[Bill Ingerson]

Bill,

You are at a much higher risk, being such a nice man with humble persona.

If you were tough and mean, the bears would ignore you as being not so tasty.

Rule one of bears, it is not a big deal being fast, just faster than the mates with you

Best bear protection in the world is a dog that will bark at them.

Next, is your mind set.

I have only been really afraid twice in my life. Had many bears within 50'. I have only shot one bear for defense. It was tearing up my cabin, so needed to go.

Get a pump shot gun. It will work when wet, dirty, rusty and frozen. Autos will jam.

Mossberg 500 series. Don't worry, after three or four shells, you are out of the hot water one way or another.

I was going to go for the mosberg also for bear protection. While in Kodiak, I had a chance to go to Mac's sporting goods, Talked to a guy behind the counter in the gun section who happens to also be a bear guide. He said if I really wanted to get through the bear hide and skull to stop a bear coming at you about 30 miles an hour with its chest right on the ground, don't use the shot gun, use a 45/90 lever action, weight is about the same as the shotgun. It stops bears, but you have to hit it also. There bears are bigger in Kodiak.

[SpainCub]

I like the lever action also, and you have those guys at wild west in Alaska that make the best for pilots it´s $$$$ but very nice!!!
BTW, a dog? I read through one of the Alaska outdoors magazine, and they said a dog can actually find the bear and bark their way back to you, with the bear in hot pursuit... The bears here in Spain are so shy, my nearest encounter was I heard only one huff then saw it later about 1km still running straight up the mountain. so I am only speaking of hear-say.

Regards,

JM

[aktango58]

Very few people can stand still and work an action properly, talke aim and place a bullet in a killing zone when a bear is in full charge. Remember, 35 mph.

Chances of penetration if hitting the skull is low. The target got smaller.

A shotgun, alternate slugs and buckshot, first round a fire cracker/flare, gives added advantage of multiple projectiles in hopes of hitting eyes/nose which are sensitive.

The goal is not always to kill, but to turn the bear. Killing will happen, but even with two 375 H&H firing I have seen bears take five rounds and not be dead. Turn the bear away, otherwise the 40 seconds between death and immobile will be you being munched.

For what it is worth, I quit carrying firearms for most of my trips years ago. Every bear has let me know that I was in the wrong spot, and suggested I leave. I did and did not need to kill them. The one that died was entering my cabin, (food conditioned), and had already been inside and torn it up.

[SteveE]

For what it is worth, I quit carrying firearms for most of my trips years ago. Every bear has let me know that I was in the wrong spot, and suggested I leave.

Ever thought that maybe its because you look like one of their relatives......

[sierra bravo]

Folks

Can you imagine trying to stop a 1300 pound bear charging at you with a single shot bolt action rifle? Remember, it is a moving target and even if you hit it, will that one shot be so perfectly placed as to stop it? I am not very fond of the idea of going into the wilderness of Alaska or Canada with a can of bear spray. I am not afraid of dying (Thanks to Jesus) but I really don't think it would be fun to die by being eaten. Feeling my skin being ripped off, arms and legs torn off. Lots of pain before you finally pass out. No thanks.

I think the best thing is a multiple shot, like 6 or 8, shotgun, preferably semi-auto so I don't have to pump in my panic. I am very concerned that some folks in Washington will leave me defenseless and make participating in wilderness camping far more dangerous. I do not believe for one moment that they will not try to get ALL they can and more.

This is a very neat website that will help you contact your reps.

http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/#

One link will give you all your reps names and contact info

Another link will automatically send a letter to all your reps. It is REALLY cool and only takes a moment.

This is not about Rant and Rave, it is about being able to go into the wilderness with something other than a slingshot.

Thank you

Bill

I take it this topic is supposed to be about gun control, not bear protection. If so, please contact your representatives directly. Don't send your pro-gun support through a forwarding service funded by a gun manufacturer. The current president is trying to portray the NRA as a manufacturer's representative. Show your representatives that you care enough to comment personally. Finding email addresses is incredibly simple. FWIW I doubt shotguns will surface on the gun control landscape for a long time. Assualt rifles will be the focus. Again.

BTW, in a real bear threat situation? I'd take an appropriately sized bolt action rifle over a shotgun every time. No question. Most bear threat situations come while hunting because we place ourselves into the thick while in stealth mode so most of my own bear encounters come while I have a bolt action rifle in hand. No worries on my part. I'm not a fan of shotguns as bear guns but I bought a Remington 887 Nitro Mag Tactical last week. Pretty sweet little home defense gun. A good option since in the USA it's illegal to purchase a handgun from a gun dealer outside of the state of your primary residence. It doesn't matter that I have a home in that state. The only state I can legally buy a new handgun is the one where I maintain a driver's license. Free country my ass. Afraid of gun control? Where have you been? Gun control has been creeping up on us for years.

SB

[nanook]

Don't quit carrying your gun, because there is that occasional bear that will hunt you. I have experienced it personally and had I not had my moose hunting rifle in my hands, would not be here today. There is the Japanese Photographer pulled from his tent in Kamchatka and eaten. The teacher jogging around the airport in the SW eaten after spraying the bear with pepper spray. The bear was seen rolling in the pepper spray spot the next day....don't be fooled into thinking that all bears are going to warn you. The one stalking/hunting me came in low to the ground like a big cat....very spooky.....

[aktango58]

Ever thought that maybe its because you look like one of their relatives......

I always thought it was my smell


FYI: Bill, I have had one jumbo come at me full speed while I was hunting, I did have the crosshairs on that one with pressure on the trigger waiting for it to clear the tree so I could have a kill shot, started at about 80 feet, turned around at 40 feet just before I finished the squeeze; the other was fishing and a small bear that charged at sixty feet and stopped at 10'... then followed me for a long ways- that was scary!

A rifle you will get one, maybe two shots, a pump shotgun you should get three. Look at energy out to 50' between shotguns and rifles. Energy is stopping power.

[sierra bravo]

My best bear protection is between my ears. I don't carry firearms for bear defense. I carry them for situation management.

Write your representatives, please.

[ndill]

I love to take take michael bloomberg to katmai national park or kodiak drop him off and ask him if he'd like a black powder musket or a semi-auto rifle. I bet
he takes the semi-auto.

[Cub junkie]

Drop Bloomberg off with only a medium soft drink as he has banned large ones in his city. He wouldn't know how to handle a firearm anyway.

[cruiser]

Sierra bravo, this law making it illegal to purchase a handgun in another state, is this a recent change? I have purchased and sold several handguns both to and from other states, the most recent about a year ago. The only requirement in NYS is that the gun be shipped to and from a FFL in both states. Can't speak for all states but that has been my experience, just a little added expense for the FFL paperwork on both ends. Jim

[sierra bravo]

I can ship guns interstate using FFL dealers but can't buy a new handgun from a gun shop outside of Alaska. I can carry a gun in my luggage and own it legally in another state, I just can't buy one there. The same applies to visitors to Alaska. You can buy a long gun here but not a handgun. I see it every time I'm in a gun shop. Anyone can buy from private sellers and gun shows. For now.

New York has a new law today. It looks like fluff for the politicians. They should make a law to limit violent gangs to 7 members so law abiding citizens can have a fighting chance.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/15/us/new...html?hpt=hp_t1

[Bill Rusk]

The handgun thing kinda bit me on my ill fated trip. I wanted a handgun in my survival vest while flying around in Alaska. Not allowed to carry it into or through Canada, so I thought I'd ship it to George and pick it up when I got there.
That is not legal. You must take it to a FFL (25) they ship, overnight only for handguns, (100) to another FFL in AK (25)

So to have a handgun for survival purposes in Alaska it was going to cost me 150.00 each way. 300 dollars total.

So I thought.....heck I'll just buy one when I get there. Can't. AK can sell you one but (at least in the state of Illinois) they can't give it to you. They (AK) must ship it to a FFL in Illinois as you can not take possession in any other state.

So, .....disarmed ....... unless you want to drag a shotgun around, which is certainly the better option but, the reality is you won't carry it everywhere, on every trip to the creek to fill the canteen, walk over to the Cub to get something out, back to the back side of the tent to tighten the tent lines, etc. And while it is not great you can wear a handgun on your belt all the time. But I found that option to be either VERY expensive or illegal.

Bill

[sierra bravo]

I think this is the law in question...

§ 478.99 Certain prohibited sales or deliveries.

(a) Interstate sales or deliveries. A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector shall not sell or deliver any firearm to any person not licensed under this part and who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business or activity is located: Provided, That the foregoing provisions of this paragraph (1) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of a rifle or shotgun (curio or relic, in the case of a licensed collector) to a resident of a State other than the State in which the licensee's place of business or collection premises is located if the requirements of §478.96(c) are fully met, and (2) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes (see §478.97).

[aktango58]

My best bear protection is between my ears. I don't carry firearms for bear defense. I carry them for situation management.

Write your representatives, please.

For those that may not have read the above, please do!

Bill, Bring your hog leg to Anchorage for the Airman's show, and hand it to me. I will have it here for you when you come up.

Or I will loan you one of my pistols if you would like. (you can not do anything to them I have not).

[swoeric]

ye sounds like sombody there should set up a rental biz for travelers coming up....I bet you could make a fortune on the snow birds..rent b y the week or month

[swoeric]

you could still go up there and purchase off of armslist.org from an individual

[spinner2]

you could still go up there and purchase off of armslist.org from an individual

Today yes. Tomorrow maybe not. The president may make a proclamation against private sales this week.


Sent from my iPhone from the middle of nowhere using Tapatalk

[8GCBC]

Switzerland requires everyone over 18 to own an auto. And if you want, a grenade luncher, or/and a handheld anti tank missile. It has the longest elected democracy so far.

[aktango58]

Inside the state, you can ship firearms through the mail.

If you leave a pistol with me, I can mail it to you in Anchorage, Ketchikan or other towns. But I can not mail it to you in Washington or Idaho or other states...

[nanook]

Everyone go out and buy a spare 44mag Ruger Alaskan, get the 2" barrel. Keep a box of 44spl and the 44+ Buffalo Bore ammo handy. When your fishing/hunting buddy from outside shows up, let him/her get used to it with the 44spl. rounds. Those Buffalo Bore 300gr can be a bit much right off the bat....

[skywagon8a]

So, .....disarmed ....... unless you want to drag a shotgun around, which is certainly the better option but, the reality is you won't carry it everywhere, on every trip to the creek to fill the canteen, walk over to the Cub to get something out, back to the back side of the tent to tighten the tent lines, etc. And while it is not great you can wear a handgun on your belt all the time. But I found that option to be either VERY expensive or illegal.

Bill

You'll get so used to dragging the shot gun around that you will feel naked without it. If you carry a hand gun, don't forget to file the sights off, so that it doesn't hurt so much when the bear shoves it up your a$$.

[sierra bravo]

If you carry a hand gun, don't forget to file the sights off, so that it doesn't hurt so much when the bear shoves it up your a$$.

Are you speaking from experience? I wanna hear that story.

[skywagon8a]

Speaking from experience? I wanna hear that story.

Not experience. That is what I was told by a couple of Alaska guides.

[spinner2]

Inside the state, you can ship firearms through the mail.

If you leave a pistol with me, I can mail it to you in Anchorage, Ketchikan or other towns. But I can not mail it to you in Washington or Idaho or other states...

Handguns can't be sent through USPS. They have to go UPS or FedEx by air. Too much theft by ground they said.

[sierra bravo]

Probably old timers. New big bore handguns are pretty damn potent. My 500 mag spits more energy that a 12ga Brenneke does. My 45-70 has a couple hundred more pounds than the 500 pistol. In a pinch I'd prefer my 45-70 but I carry the 500 more since it's so compact. I looked at a 500 Alaskan in a guide gun but the recoil on that beast would make it a one shot weapon in a close encounter. It's no secret that my 300wby shooting a 200gr bullet has considerably more punch than any of them. When I go stealth in the woods I usually take that. When not hunting but plan to wander in the woods? I take what I'm most comfortable carrying because when I need one a gun with me is always better than a gun left at home and I enjoy wandering up salmon streams in bear country. To date I've never needed a gun for that although I usually relax more for having one. Must be an age thing. I almost never carried a gun to fish when I was younger. I've shot more bears in my yard than in the woods. With that in mind, a scatter gun isn't the right weapon to shoot at a bear that's standing near something you'd rather not have to repair.

Visitors shouldn't need any weapon for venues and activities they're likely to pursue. If they feel a weapon is a must have they should bring one THEY'RE PROFICIENT WITH. To assume you can step into the woods with a borrowed 500 magnum and be any good with it is flawed thinking. You'd be a bigger danger to yourself than you would be with no weapon and more awareness.

Tourists with guns scare me a whole lot more than bears do.

[skywagon8a]

Yes, old timers.

[sierra bravo]

I'm a handgun fan. Glocks at home and big guns in the field. Here's a story for you.

Another fine day on the Kodiak Archipeligo. Cold this morning. Frosty. Leave the boat at first light to search for Elk. "Hey, today let's try Humpy Creek." The point where Raspberry Straight meets Shelikof Straight. Windy and raw. Great view. Off the boat there's about 10' of beach and then a shelf to climb onto. Off with the waders and on with the hunting boots. The shelf is the last flat spot we'll see today. The climb is thousands of feet straight up an exposed face that's covered in wheat colored grass. The grass is slimy and slick and there are salmonberry canes laced into it everywhere. The grass and canes grab your cuffs and boots making lifting your feet a chore. The lack of traction keeps your ankles tensed trying to claw some purchase with each slimy step. Your hands ache from grabbing canes and grass trying to hold on to the slope above you because if you slip there will be no stopping until you hit bottom. The slope is like climbing a ladder. Steep. Long. No place to rest or shed clothing. A few minutes ago we were freezing. Now we're steaming hot and drenched in sweat. It seemingly takes all morning to crest the first face and straddle a ridge. Rest. Drink. Strip off clothes. About a minute later? Freezing. Put the jacket back on, now fully cooled and still wet. Move on. You want to sit but it's too cold. Motion makes heat. Up the ridge. More climbing but the footing isn't bad. Up. Up. Up. Until we run out of ridge. That moment every mountain hunter hates. You bust your ass to gain altitude and now you have to give some back... so you can climb up another mountain on the other side of the draw. Legs are tired, footing is terrible. No way to gain a handhold to steady the descent. Slip, tumble, get scraped up, get violated in your privates by the devil's clug you just slid through. You get the idea. The scene repeats itself over and over again all day long. The only time we don't feel pain is when we cross fresh tracks. The chase is on. It's an unfair chase. Like an overweight '59 Chrysler chasing a Jeep. Can't catch the animals. Keeping watch on the four Kodiak bears we're sharing the valley with. They may know we're here but they aren't showing it. We know they're there. See and avoid. Now it's time to reverse course and head for the beach. The day has matured and will pass in a couple of hours. More sign. Follow it. Down. The ground is churned up and the low vegetation ground into the soil. Easy walking. Down. At the bottom it becomes apparent the animals had 4 wheel drive to climb the slope they took up the other side. Couldn't see that from up top. Oh well, take a right turn and follow the drainage out. Easy at first. Then into the timber. Then the timber gives way to alders and the creek bottom becomes narrow and winding. Alders get thicker. We can turn and climb for an hour plus to take an alternate route or we can follow the bear tunnel down the creek. A salmon creek. and now's the time bears like to fatten up on salmon. We go down. Bobbing and weaving and ducking under the branches as best we can. The packs and rifles snag on every branch. The tunnel worn in by bears gets smaller and smaller. And shorter and shorter. A half mile to go. Now on hands and knees. The rifles are strapped tightly onto the packs and still they snag constantly. Move forward three feet, back up two to get unsnagged. Progress is slow. The ground is a mix of scree gravel and mud. The mud shows recent bear tracks. We can barely lift our heads to see ahead. The rifles are strapped on. There's no alternative to that. We're tired, wet, muddy, aching, and now we're getting concerned about a head-on with a thousand pound bear that has no place to turn around. Welcome to the Kodiak Archipeligo. This is a fairly typical day. And the day I've described was the last time I ever went hunting there without a big bore handgun in an easy to access chest holster. There have been lots of similar days since. And days of packing meat. We call it walking bait through bear country. Try shouldering a long gun with 100# of meat tied on your back and your whole body searing from exertion. Ya buddy. I'm a fan of big bore handguns!

I'm not a particular fan of assault weapons but I'm not in favor of government gun control. Like most Americans I'll watch today's news with curiosity. On the fence. I expect plenty of rhetoric from both sides. That's their right because of the 1st ammendment. Let's hope the 2nd one is as enduring. God bless America.

[Ursa Major]

Stewart,

Great description of hunting Kodiak (or many places in SE AK). My Kodiak deer hunting stories are mostly similar - except the part when you get back to the boat and discover that your rifle barrel is plugged with snow since the tape you covered it with slipped off sometime after your tumble down that first steep slope (makes a revolver in a chest holster like Dave Johnson's really worthwhile). Sometimes I miss hunting Kodiak, but I sure don't miss the wind off Shelikof strait, or the Devil's club.

[spinner2]

That was a good description of a fun day hunting SB. Put a little snow of the ground and it would be even more fun, right?

In my part of the world we have black bears, grizzly bears, mountain lions and wolves. I personally know more folks that have been stalked by mountain lions and had to kill them than any of the others.

A good friend shot a wolf at a few feet while he was elk hunting. It was stalking him and made a final dash that my friend heard, turned to see what was making the noise and killed the wolf shooting from the hip.

It seems every year a hunter or fisherman or tourist or two gets chewed on by a grizzly bear. Some are killed.

Black bears seem to be the least problem.

When I'm out in the woods I usually carry a revolver on my hip. I've never needed it but it is comforting to know it is there. And I'm glad I have the right to do so. Some would like to take that right away. And they'll keep trying to do so.

[SteveE]

Wow Stewart,, that is some tuff hunting... Whole kernel corn on the flat beach.....

[sierra bravo]

Huh? You lost me.

I tell my wife Kodiak area hunting must be like a woman having a kid. Right after they say never again. A year later all they want is to do it again. So it goes with Kodiak. I'll be ready. Unless I get drawn for Unimak!

[MarkCav]

I just got high speed internet and U-Vers TV . There is a show called Wild West Alaska. Filmed at a gun store Wild West Guns. I have noticed alot of lever action rifes with scopes on there shelves. . 45cal.,??? They look like stainless steel?? I was going to get a Henry rifle 45cal. this week with a 20% off Cabelas, I got at Dallas Safari Club show first of the month.

[nanook]

All my hunting buddies are accomplished pistoleros. It is a major pain for them to get their pistols to Alaska. Everyone who relies on a big revolver for bear protection needs to practice... The beauty of the 44mag is using 44spl for warm up....easy on the gun frame and you.

[tempdoug]

I wouldnt want to practice this to many times.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHsEojBGojI or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGfu3Rge8Xo

[sierra bravo]

I just got high speed internet and U-Vers TV . There is a show called Wild West Alaska. Filmed at a gun store Wild West Guns. I have noticed alot of lever action rifes with scopes on there shelves. . 45cal.,??? They look like stainless steel?? I was going to get a Henry rifle 45cal. this week with a 20% off Cabelas, I got at Dallas Safari Club show first of the month.

Wild West is famous for their break-down Co-Pilot rifles. They also do a lot of selling and working on Marlin 1895 rifles. Here's my 1895SDT 45-70 with Jim West's trigger kit, bear-proof ejector, and big loop. They also put a spacer behind the Decelerator recoil pad so the gun fits me correctly. The case was made for me by Fine Line. I'll have this or my 500 mag with me any time I take the airplane. What the heck, if I get bored I can always plink.



http://www.wildwestguns.com/custom-g...skan-co-pilot/