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Thread: Another Light Weight Battery Option

  1. #81
    sjohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    ... Field Approvals are very political. You do need to be very friendly to one of those folks, in the FAA, who have the authority to approve FAs
    I would second this. It me took 18 months to get a fairly routine FA on a panel rework: new radios and moving wiring out of the wing root. The first inspector punted after a few phone calls and about 9 months. 2 more took over as a team. Most of the time was spent negotiating what the end paperwork would look like. Even then, I don't think it would have been approved except one of the inspectors had a soft spot for classic airplanes and genuinely wanted to help. The other really wanted to push it to a DER. All this for a change that has clear safety advantages and that many here have proposed should require no more than a logbook entry.

    Even so, they made it clear that FAs present only downside career risk; thus, all the focus on paperwork. Inspectors get advancement through enforcement actions. I'm only paraphrasing a little.

    Just my opinion, but you would never get an FA for a non-aviation battery with a new chemistry here in Boise without using a DER. YMMV.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Field Approvals are at the option of "they". There are published guidelines, but it is still the option of "they". You need to go to the FSDO and ask "they". Show "they" all of the documentation which you can muster on the Earth X. It would be helpful if you have an IA friend who is on good terms with "they" as well. Since batteries are not required equipment in PA-11s, it may be a bit easier?
    Pete,

    I put a battery in my old J 3 in a homemade box. My mechanic called it a "temporary installation". Just because it's sorta fastened inside an airplane doesn't necessarily imply it's "installed".

    MTV
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  3. #83
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    That is true Mike, It depends on how it is held in place, there is sometimes a rather fine line. The question in this case was "how do I get a field approval?", not "how can I get away with it?".
    N1PA

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Pete,

    I put a battery in my old J 3 in a homemade box. My mechanic called it a "temporary installation". Just because it's sorta fastened inside an airplane doesn't necessarily imply it's "installed".

    MTV
    Nice to see you mellowing with age.

    Glenn

  5. #85

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    I see this great thread on Lithium batteries, hint hint, was bushwhacked by the high time users... :/

    Anyone using the new aircraft specific duel circuit EarthX batteries? They have redundant charge control and high amp protection? Im thinking about the EX900 suitable for the big bore Conti.

    Im still rocking my 36D after 24 months.


    Rocket

  6. #86
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    I just got my 36C in the mail this weekend. Hopefully I'll get it on the plane on Wednesday. Way smaller and WAY lighter than the one I have in there.

  7. #87

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    Looking for the right lightweight solution for an 0-360. Thinking of installing a barely adequate (Earthx 24?) and carrying one of the small jump start batteries with an installed plug.
    A quick search didn't reveal any current messages on this topic? Appreciate comments.
    Thanks
    Peter

  8. #88
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    They are now making a dedicated aircraft battery

    http://earthxmotorsports.com/product...ental-aircraft

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  9. #89

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    Yes I have seen these bigger batteries. What I am getting at is what does it actually take on a warm day to crank an 0360. Maybe that is the size I should install and have capability to add power on a winter day with one of the lightweight boosters. Do we need 400 cca in summer?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercowan View Post
    Yes I have seen these bigger batteries. What I am getting at is what does it actually take on a warm day to crank an 0360. Maybe that is the size I should install and have capability to add power on a winter day with one of the lightweight boosters. Do we need 400 cca in summer?
    Not bigger, less then 4lb

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  11. #91

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    Bigger in price. When the lifespan of these batteries may be less than what we have been used to maybe putting the minimum size in makes sense.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercowan View Post
    Yes I have seen these bigger batteries. What I am getting at is what does it actually take on a warm day to crank an 0360. Maybe that is the size I should install and have capability to add power on a winter day with one of the lightweight boosters. Do we need 400 cca in summer?
    They like the heat. They are less powerful in the cold.
    The " dedicated " battery glen speaks of is no different.
    It just has a light and lead if you want to monitor on your panel

  13. #93
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph206 View Post
    They like the heat. They are less powerful in the cold.
    The " dedicated " battery glen speaks of is no different.
    It just has a light and lead if you want to monitor on your panel
    No battery likes cold. It has 2 BMS instead of 1 like the motosport models

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  14. #94
    Joseph206's Avatar
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    Same as the old 24 just new light and lead.
    We've always been talking aircraft battery.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph206 View Post
    Same as the old 24 just new light and lead.
    We've always been talking aircraft battery.
    Not from what I read? EXT24C is PCA 420 CCA 270 and the EXT680C is PCA 680 and CCA 320. Looks like it is the same as the 36Click image for larger version. 

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Aircraft.Brochure.2015.cropped.pdf  
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 04-14-2016 at 04:18 PM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  16. #96
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    My EarthX 36c cranks much better than my Odyssey 680, even in cold weather. But the EarthX battery is surprising expensive by the pound...

  17. #97
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    I'll tell you this Peter, an Odyssey PC 680 is enough to wind up an O360 summer and winter, 100 degrees to minus 20. PCA is 520, CCA 170 so the Earth X 36 looks better than that and the same size as the 24.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercowan View Post
    Looking for the right lightweight solution for an 0-360. Thinking of installing a barely adequate (Earthx 24?) and carrying one of the small jump start batteries with an installed plug.
    A quick search didn't reveal any current messages on this topic? Appreciate comments.
    Thanks
    Peter
    This is the one you want, ETX680C*. Just released March 2016. The "aircraft series" also has redundant electronics as well as a custom mount made for it for firewall installations.

    * ETX680C, 680, 900, and 1200 has redundant electronics and battery cell / hardware fault monitoring.

    http://earthxmotorsports.com/product...ental-aircraft

    http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/cu...ry-box-etx680c

    Take care,

    Crash

  19. #99
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    I have been using an EarthX battery and it spins the engine very nicely. No issues in that regard. I had a battery with a bad cell and the EarthX folks replaced it with no questions asked. Excellent customer service. I am very pleased with it would recommend the EarthX battery.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  20. #100
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    I have (4) EarthX ETX36C's , One new on with the new light and the new lead, ETX680C, None of them like the cold below 30 Degrees. They love the Heat.
    I also did have a bad 36c With cell, Earth X an Excellent company, no questions with returns,.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercowan View Post
    Looking for the right lightweight solution for an 0-360. Thinking of installing a barely adequate (Earthx 24?) and carrying one of the small jump start batteries with an installed plug. ....................
    Having two batteries on board seems like it'd defeat the purpose of installing a small lightweight battery.
    Plus add a lot of fumbling around when the installed battery came up short.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph206 View Post
    I have (4) EarthX ETX36C's , One new on with the new light and the new lead, ETX680C, None of them like the cold below 30 Degrees. They love the Heat.
    I also did have a bad 36c With cell, Earth X an Excellent company, no questions with returns,.
    Joe, no battery likes the cold. Lead acid battery graph

    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  23. #103
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    Not exactly the same Li ion chemistry, but it illustrates the point that for all chemistries battery capacity drops with temperature, but Li ion drops faster than lead-acid below freezing. You may want to start out with a higher capacity EarthX battery if you plan to start cold.

    Name:  Battery v temp.jpg
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  24. #104
    sjohnson's Avatar
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    Update: I found better info in the EarthX manual (duh).

    "We use a similar Cold Cranking Amp test standard as the lead acid battery manufacturers (SAE test performed at 0°F, but 3 second discharge time vs 30 second). As such, our battery with a similar CCA rating as a lead acid battery should provide the same cranking performance at 0°F. But, below 0°F an equivalent lead acid battery will outperform a lithium battery (see the graph below)."

    Attachment 25181

  25. #105

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    Any more cold weather pireps? Thanks.

  26. #106
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    Dredging this thread up again, for those that run no starter but have a light battery for a radio, which battery do you recommend. I understand it's subjective, but cost is pretty important at the moment, so I'm looking for overall value just to provide panel electric and recharge with a tender as needed.

    pb

  27. #107
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    Why not use an EarthX? Can't beat the weight per amps, and the price isn't bad, great actually, compared to what you get. They make all different sizes, if I was you I'd call them up and tell them what your load and use will be and how often you'd like to recharge it, and let them tell you what you need.

  28. #108

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    Ask them to educate you about charging while you're at it. That's where these new age batteries really differ from what we're used to. EarthX sells chargers, too.

  29. #109
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    Assuming a 12 volt system, so just go to any 'Batteries are Us' type of store and see what's on the shelf. Look for sealed, gel or dry cell construction, that does not require a special type of charger. As for size, that will depend on the current draw you expect to use and how long it needs to run that equipment before you get a chance to recharge it.
    I.e., if you need to draw 1 amp for four hours, then you need a four amp hour battery or larger. If you are calculating .5 amps for those same four hours then you could go with a two amp hour battery. Of course you'll want to make the battery a little larger than absolutely necessary both for convenience and because the voltage will decrease over time and will make your equipment unusable when it drops below a set value (for 12 volt equipment it's usually 9 or 9.5 volts).
    And remember that the battery must be usable at least as long as you can stretch your fuel load.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    Why not use an EarthX? Can't beat the weight per amps, and the price isn't bad, great actually, compared to what you get. They make all different sizes, if I was you I'd call them up and tell them what your load and use will be and how often you'd like to recharge it, and let them tell you what you need.
    Without calling them it appears on the face that a bike battery could be purchased and replaced 4-6 times for the price of an Earthx, if you are looking at their "exp. aircraft" product line. Shoestring budget.

  31. #111
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Farmboy, wireweinie has the correct answer as to size. Next go to WalMart or Sears, look at their golf cart batteries. I have a Sears Diehard in the 185 and another Diehard which has been in my tractor for 25 years starting a diesel engine. I know, they don't say airplane on them, but they are safe and do the job.
    N1PA
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  32. #112
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    Pete, the alarm guys change the 12v backup batteries out every year and most have a bunch of them sitting around ( free ). I used a little 7AH one for years to power my stuff. I made a little box with a fuse and power port and screwed it to the floor




    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  33. #113
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Those work too for a radio Glen. They're small too. Aren't they 7 amp hour?
    N1PA

  34. #114
    40m's Avatar
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    Pete,
    I suspect a recently replaced battery would provide you with the utility you're looking for free of charge, assuming it will be charged after each use. I'm about to replace one which is showing signs of anemia on the coldest of days. I suspect it would satisfy the draw from a radio for some time to come. If you can wait until my annual in March you are welcome to it.

    VT Glenn

    From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be
    found in all corners of the earth."

    Then he made the earth round... and He laughed and laughed and laughed!
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  35. #115
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    Sounds great Glenn. Can't say no to that. See you soon.

    Peter

  36. #116

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    Pay attntion to Glenn and Wire. I have been using the little 7 AH "Yuasa" gel cells for decades. I get one month of daily flights out of a single charge with an SL-40 + PM-501 + Garmin 496 all hooked to a single switch. We are now converting to the Garmin GTR-200, and so far we get eight tach hours using the same battery. That is "success"

    Now I have a B&C starter, and am looking at portable batteries for that. Optimum, I think, would be 12 AH with screw-on terminals. B&C has one, but I am thinking more in terms of fifty bucks than 150. I do not need the starter yet. Yet.

    Earthx is obvious, because I am space- limited. I think I need a footprint under 6 1/2x2 1/2".

  37. #117

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    I like this little battery, doesn't have a bunny on it but it goes and goes. AGM 12Ah $39. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00V9WEMQ6
    Last edited by Eddie747; 02-13-2017 at 05:53 PM.

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