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Question for you Intructor Types.

ndill

Registered User
Austin TX Ya'll
A pilot has an instrument rating and wants to go train ie under the hood in vfr, so he takes a check pilot with him for saftey. Does the check pilot have to be current, does the check pilot have to have a current medical or does he just need to have a pilot certificate?
 
Here's what MTV wrote to me when I asked the very same question:

Here's the pertinent section of the regulations which refer to filing IFR:

Subject: FAR 61.57

(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought—
(i) At least six instrument approaches;
(ii) Holding procedures; and
(iii) Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation systems.

So, the problem is that, if you are operating "iunder IFR", someone aboard has to be IFR current, either the person under the hood or the safety pilot. This is further verified by a couple of Chief Counsel opinions that affirm this interpretation.
 
Safety pilot is required crew member for purpose of maintaining the currency. Required crew need rating for category and class, and a valid medical.

The flight isn't necessarily flown in IMC. It can be a clear blue VMC day flown under VFR rules.
 
Safety pilot is required crew member for purpose of maintaining the currency. Required crew need rating for category and class, and a valid medical.

The flight isn't necessarily flown in IMC. It can be a clear blue VMC day flown under VFR rules.
Sounds right. So if flown under IFR rules (i.e. having filed), then PIC needs to be IFR current. But if instrument procedures are flown for practice in VMC under visual flight rules, then required crew is as you stated. Clay, would you agree with that distinction?
 
Gordon,

that is the interpretation I got from two different FSDO types, from two different offices. Had to win a bet.....

MTV
 
I just looked at the regs a month or so ago to see if I cuuld use a pilot without a medical for a check pilot. Seems to me I decided that I could. I will re- check to see why I got that impression. Feds do not have all the answers.
 
"Safety pilot" for the purpose of simulated instrument training needs same quals as a PIC. He/she acting as safety pilot needs to be able to fly the aircraft legally if chosen/required to do so. i.e. This regulation is to help insure if something funky happens, like traffic avoidance, which requires taking control of the aircraft from the person under the hood.... the "safety pilot" can safely continue flight until giving control back to the person under the hood. Nobody needs to be IFR current for the purpose of aforementioned "simulated IFR training (under VFR)" unless operating under IFR.
 
In short, the "safety pilot" is considered a "required crewmember", since they have to be qualified to serve as PIC. And, required crewmembers must have a medical. I was referred to a Chief Counsel's opinion by one of the feds.....it doesn't get any more solid than that. Here's the Chief Counsel's opinion, and reference:

... experience towards obtaining or maintaining an instrument aircraft rating. Section 91.1 09(b) prohibits a pilot from operating a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless a safety pilot is present. As such, both pilots are required crewmembers during the portion of a flight that is conducted in simulated instrument conditions. The safety pilot is not required to pay a pro rata share of the operating expenses of the flight regardless of whether he is acting as PIC since neither ...
Click here for full text: .../interps/2012/Roberts, Andrew.pdf

That one describes the safety pilot as being a "required crewmember.

This one notes that required crewmemembers must possess a valid medical certificate: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...00/interpretations/data/interps/2010/Grau.pdf

MTV


MTV
 
Seems it would further follow, that practicing instrument procedures in VMC under VFR, and not under simulated IMC (i.e. not using a hood), regulations would not require a safety pilot (though it might well be a very good idea, and of course it would be foolish not to communicate with ATC and/or CTAF). Would you professionals agree with that interpretation?
 
Yes, but it doesn't count towards currency and it has no use being logged. Can be good practice though...especially with regard to situational awareness about where you are in relationship to the airport while flying the approach.
 
Not bad to practice "VFR" IFR approaches, holds, DME archs, etc. in VMC under VFR. Can't log as simulate/actual IFR, but good for getting an idea of an area before filing IFR for real. We ask for i.e. VFR ILSs at PHNL, and ATC works it in almost 100% of the time, however if it gets crowded, ATC will vector VFR around the IFR commercial traffic (I'm not sure what the rules are exactly for ATC regarding "simulated IFR" procedures for a VFR pilot, but it works well here). No safety pilot needed.

ATC in Honolulu are a pleasure to fly with, given the responsibily they have with Hickam AFB (classified aircraft), international flights, helicopter tours, and part 91 students all flying together. It's a good airport. Nice wx too. BTW I have done SAR flights "feet wet" along the coast and ATC did not have a problem, even crossing final approaches. We were separated well, no problems, during the SARs.
 
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