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Super cub as a first plane...

My little brother just bought a 90 hp Super Cub as his first airplane and to get his license in. We have been having a blast. Helped a friend a few years ago learn to fly tailwheel in a 90 hp Champ and we had a blast. Takes me back to when two friends and I drove to Sun Valley, Idaho and bought a Clipper and trailer it back to Texas, no pilot's licenses. We had a blast. I don't think it matters what you buy as long as it is a good one. They are all fun and a bit different.
 
You will learn more about flying from the smaller engine aircraft.

There are a couple of instructors that have posted about this, myself and Bob Turner. Saying a j-3 is 'just boring holes in the sky' is a statement from an individual that has never worked the plane to the edge. (you think a 172 or such is any better????)

Not having the power to just pull you out when desired, learning 'energy management' as was said before, is very important.

Yes, many people fly for years with big power aircraft and never have troubles, but take a close look at the very good pilots, and ask them what really taught them to fly.

There is more than throttle up, stick back... flaps down power off brakes...

Learning directional control on the ground, (a high hp cub will take off across most runways), learning energy management, learning to use the wind in your favor, or to use the cool of the water to descend... or heat of the blacktop to help lift....

you don't get the subtly in a 180 hp. super cub.

Why does Jason do so well in a 135 hp cub in Concrete?

Economics, and prices have shown that the small engine planes have held their value. The top end cubs seem to be expensive, but the mid level planes, and big engine birds (twins... 206's) have lost lots of value. We don't see much in the way of 150k cubs now, but that is a good thing I think.

Ask yourself, do you want to get your license and fly, or do you want to LEARN how to REALLY Fly?

If you are satisfied with being safe and able to fly a cub, buy the yuppy 180 hp with bells and whistles.

If you want to really know what is happening and what will happen with complete understanding and really know your aircraft, buy a low powered tailwheel trainer and fly it hard.

Your choice. Everything has it's costs, and rewards. You make the choice for yourself.

To help you understand more, why not go visit Bob Turner and rent he and his J-3 for some lessons... feeling it will mean more than reading all these posts.
 
nanook said:
Definitely buy a j-3, PA-11, CE-140, champ, in the 90-100hp. range....learn how to fly the wing, not the big engine and long prop. You will be a much better pilot if you learn those skills first. Also if you do screw up and ding the thing, you are out much less.....
Click to expand...

Worth reading again.
 
King Brown said:
My experience with J3s is similar to that of Bob S. A lot also depends on where you live. I started 65hp on floats and later many fishing and hunting adventures with an 85hp on 1320s. They offered "a wilderness experience like no other," as Bob said. The great angler Lee Wulff pioneered packing in sports with a J3 on floats from his lodge at Portland Creek, Newfoundland. It would be no burden to go back to the J3 for me.
Click to expand...

A bush pilot who is well known in north Ontario, George Theriault, a pioneering hunting and fishing outfitter in the James Bay region in the 50's, began his northern explorations in a J3 on floats. His first voyages up the Quebec James Bay coast departing from Timmins, Ontario in the late 40's were without a doubt a challenge. They had to rely on their own fuel caches, navigating in an area that is known for its unpredictable weather patterns, in a region that had not yet been fully mapped - in a J3 Cub. He tells his story in "Trespassing in God's Country - Sixty Years of Flying in Northern Canada".
 
Before I could recommend an airplane, would need to fly with you and you would need to disclose monthly flying budget. Many people can fly a Cub (or similiar) aircraft and afford one too. Where you get your further real life guidance will matter however.
 
First airplanes. Maybe guys ought to quit giving all this advice and explain what they had and why. Most guys started out with itty bitty underpowered planes because they were broke. Nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has that problem, though. My first plane was a '79 Hawk XP w/ an Isham 210hp STC, 80" seaplane prop, and flawless PeeKay B2300 floats. Got my wheel and tailwheel ratings in rentals. The tailwheel plane was an old straight tail 150 with a taildragger conversion. 100 hp, skinny little gear, and a broken airspeed indicator. That was a treat! Got my seaplane rating in my own. What a great airplane that was. 700TT A&E when I bought it. Beautiful, capable, and it served me well. Good times.

By the way, looking back... the Hawk XP offered fantastic utility and capability with very economical insurability. There's something to be said for that when you're the new guy. Great float plane, too.
 
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Amen...

You get the same advice with motorcycles.

"Get a small one and learn to ride!"

Doesn't take too long to realize that more horsepower means more fun, more capability, and getting to do what you want with the thing. And it's a whole lot easier to sell a motorcycle to upgrade than it is an airplane.

A Super Cub is a great primary trainer, and has a lifetime of capability afterwards.

Gump
 
aktango58 said:
You will learn more about flying from the smaller engine aircraft.

There are a couple of instructors that have posted about this, myself and Bob Turner. Saying a j-3 is 'just boring holes in the sky' is a statement from an individual that has never worked the plane to the edge. (you think a 172 or such is any better????)

Not having the power to just pull you out when desired, learning 'energy management' as was said before, is very important.

Yes, many people fly for years with big power aircraft and never have troubles, but take a close look at the very good pilots, and ask them what really taught them to fly.

There is more than throttle up, stick back... flaps down power off brakes...

Learning directional control on the ground, (a high hp cub will take off across most runways), learning energy management, learning to use the wind in your favor, or to use the cool of the water to descend... or heat of the blacktop to help lift....

you don't get the subtly in a 180 hp. super cub.

Why does Jason do so well in a 135 hp cub in Concrete?

Economics, and prices have shown that the small engine planes have held their value. The top end cubs seem to be expensive, but the mid level planes, and big engine birds (twins... 206's) have lost lots of value. We don't see much in the way of 150k cubs now, but that is a good thing I think.

Ask yourself, do you want to get your license and fly, or do you want to LEARN how to REALLY Fly?

If you are satisfied with being safe and able to fly a cub, buy the yuppy 180 hp with bells and whistles.

If you want to really know what is happening and what will happen with complete understanding and really know your aircraft, buy a low powered tailwheel trainer and fly it hard.

Your choice. Everything has it's costs, and rewards. You make the choice for yourself.

To help you understand more, why not go visit Bob Turner and rent he and his J-3 for some lessons... feeling it will mean more than reading all these posts.
Click to expand...

The guy wants a Super Cub. It's still a primitive flying, tail wheel airplane that will teach a pilot a lot. It's more comfortable to fly from the front seat and provides a more comfortable experience for passengers riding in the larger and a bit more spacious back seat.
Lots of great upgrades and cool stuff too, big tires, cargo pod, etc etc. A bit more practical in airplane terms. The front seat of a J3 is tight in a couple of ways. Just an opinion.
 
Cooley can always get a high powered PA-18 and then artificially restrict the maximum throttle setting for educational purposes. I remember way long ago when my primary instructor did this very thing in the 65hp Champ that I was learning to fly in. This was for the purpose of demonstrating high and hot performance in a sea level environment.
 
I learned to fly in a J3, No regrets. I would Have a Supercub and a J3 or a Hatz. I Prefer a Supercub now for all the perks, but I miss cruising along at 60 low and slow. It is so cool doing touch n goes with a buddy in a J3, those are good times. That being said the Supercub is Super for a reason it is amazing aircraft that gives you a smile in so many ways. I vote a nice Supercub for your first and maybe last purchase. Greg
 
If you want to learn how to fly on floats, buy a low power plane and you will learn to fine tune your skills. With a Supercub you can do almost anything (bad or good) and it will take off anyway.A lower performance plane will take minimun skills to take off on floats.Then you buy a SC and you will be able to apreciate your new bird.

Frenchy
 
Define your mission. Be sure about that. If you want to fly low/slow buy a Cub. If not, not.

If you think you need that low power crap to learn to "fly the wing" then just limit yourself to 2300 RPM for takeoff. Why buy two planes, plus sell one, just to get to the same place? Many folks who learned on a SuperCub are still alive.
 
So you want to fly a taildragger. You want to fly in the bush. When you bend the plane (most do) do you want to bend a $150,000 plane or a $25,000 plane? If they are fabric they both cost the same to fix. You can sell Both for close to same price once bent. Buy a pacer for 25,000, DO NOTHING TO PLANE BUT FLY IT!!! If you dont bend it in 300-400 hours get a cub. For a low time pilot, a pacer is a great trainer and will teach you more then you will ever want to know about controlling a tailwheel. Resist the urge to make it better (except bigger wheels). Steve pierce at shortwings.org is the man for a prebuy. I bought my pacer before I ever took a single flight lesson it was the best investment I ever made. Did lots of learning, off field flying in Alaska with a plane that I only had 30 grand invested with no insurance. If I bent it bad on the North Slope I figured it could just stay there. Sold it UNBENT after 400 hours and now have a nice cub.
DENNY
 
Everyone - thank you all for the advice. DENNY - I like your thought on the pacer. Will make a decision after my checkride.
 
If you will have airplane payments, you can 't afford it. Drive crappy cars, save and buy ugly mechanicly good Cessna 140 or even 170. Supercubs are great but over priced.
 
don d said:
If you will have airplane payments, you can 't afford it. Drive crappy cars, save and buy ugly mechanicly good Cessna 140 or even 170. Supercubs are great but over priced.
Click to expand...

Credit is so cheap right now you should buy two.

Glenn
 
I vote for a PA-18-95 (90HP) if you can find a good one. Arrange a pre-purchase inspection - money well spent and money saved. Find someone like Steve Pierce to do it. You'll learn to FLY the plane not just power it around. It will hold value, and then you can sell it to upgrade, or you might find it's so good, you'll just want to keep it. The Continental C-90 is a great engine and you don't NEED flaps - better yet, learn how to land short with airspeed control. You'll also have a comfortable seat and decent visibility. If you don't have a background in hand propping, get a starter, unless and until, you really know how to do it. There's a lot of really bad instruction in hand propping. Swinging your leg UNDER the prop is an invitation to the ER or worse. Propping from behind is fine IF you know what you're doing. There's plenty of gray area in hand propping with no one sitting inside the plane, and even though it's common and widely accepted, an urban based FAA inspector may cause you aggravation. Your insurance could be affected as well. Lucky you. Enjoy shopping and flying!
 
Cooley - I just spent the last year looking for my first plane as well. In May I bought a Top Cub. I grew up flying around Alaska in our family’s 180, just to have my dad sell it around the time I was old enough to start training. I solo’d in the mid 90’s in a 150 but due to family commitments, I shelved it and never finished my ticket. Fast forward to this summer and I finally took the plunge. Zero hours tail wheel time, haven’t flown since the mid 90’s.... and having the time of my life with the Top Cub. PM me if you’d like and I’ll share what I learned on my search. Thanks
 
OWN, don't rent...owning an airplane is an expensive convenience but rewarding in that you can fly it anytime you like, rather than having to fit your time in and around a schedule of renters at a club or fbo. Owning you're own plane will fill you with pride and enable you to get involved with the maintenance and mods you may want in the future. As far as amphibs? They are a compromise, they can do both but...they do fail and they require a lot of maintenance to preclude that they don't fail. As far as projects, if you were to entertain that option? Buy an airplane that flies...you will fly more than a project that seemingly never will get done. And my 2 cents on a super cub. Buy a taylorcraft...theyre cheap compared to a super cub. If you wreck it, it won't hurt as much if you wreck an expensive super cub. And Taylorcrafts burn only half the fuel as a cub...good luck
Cooley said:
Hi all
i wanted to fly all my life and finally I am close to my check ride having about 75 hours in my logbook.
i presently fly an old Cessna 172 in my flight school.
i want to buy my own airplane as soon as I get the licence. I know that many will say - don't buy but rent - but I always wanted to buy one and I have made the decision.

I love supercubs and the concept of bush flying (I realize I am probably hundred of hours away from real bush flying). My real dream is to get an amphib plane (another few years away)...
I am struggling to make a choice :

1. Get tail wheel endorsement and buy a supercub immidiately after getting a rating. Fly few years on wheels and put it on floats as soon as I get reasonable insurance rate.

2. Buy a nice new light spot as it is cheaper to operate. Fly it for a couple of years, become an experienced pilot, get the tail wheel rating and buy a Sc after.

In general the question is - is this stupid to buy a sc for fresh greenhorn pilot?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
 
I have been maintaining the original poster's Top Cub for almost as many years as this thread is old. Just realized who it was after it was revived.
 
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