Thanks: 
Likes: Watched the video. Learned it was more head-on than I expected, and the rest was typical.
Disagree with suggesting ADSB.
I’d rather see them use a radio.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
Originally Posted by frequent_flyer
https://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilot...SAAEgJJlfD_BwE
I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!OLDCROWE liked this post
My ADS-B proximity warning would be hard to ignore. Radio calls get stepped on all the time.
Ditto.
I agree about the radio,
I was surprised to see McSpadden suggest that maybe it was time for Jack Brown's to use ADSB,
yet he didn't say anything at all about their nordo ops.
I don't have a proximity warning, my ADSB-in display is on my tablet.
I have to continually remind myself not to fixate on my adsb display, instead of keeping my eyes outside where they belong.
The nice thing about a radio is that I can monitor it without taking my eyes out of the windshield, unlike my ADSB.
Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
This is something that a lot of people don't seem to get. You don't have to stare at an iPad! All of the apps (and panel mount stuff) will give you an audio alert if you set it up. If you don't have bluetooth headsets, stick an earbud in under your headset. Works fine.
I thought Richard did a good job with this preliminary review. A lot better than some of the click chaser analyzers who we have all seen.
At no point did he say "ADSB would be the be all end all cure for this problem". He also talked about proper use of another distracting device as well... the altimeter...
sj
"Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
------------------------------------------
If I understood him, apparently the standard practice at Jack Brown's is to set the altimeter to zero even though the seaplane base is at 140' ASL.
That surprised me. I guess it's great for landing back at the seaplane base,
but it seems like it would involve unnecessary math for referencing your altitude to anything else.
Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
If overlying airspace is AGL....
Gary
I agree. In aerobatic flight, it makes sense to set the altimeter to zero prior to launch so you don't have to do math while thinking about recovering from a maneuver such as a spin.
But, I've flown floats a lot and never considered setting the altimeter to zero, even around fairly flat country. So, I'm not sure why Brown's would do that unless they're concerned about overflights of homes, infrastructure, etc. With lots of houses, etc around there, they MAY have done that so their pilots don't have to do math to ensure they're at least 500 feet from people, places and things. And, the standard response to any accusation of low flight would be "nope, we set our altimeter to zero and it read 600 feet when we flew over your house...."?? I'll bet they get a lot of "low flight" complaints in that part of the world.
But, doing so could definitely cause additional confusion when flying around UNDER traffic patterns.
MTV
I fly with a group of guys every Sunday morning, sometimes there is two of us and can be as many as 8. We bar hop up and down the Brazos River landing at different spots with some opting out of some and others where everyone lands. With the old Super Cub it was visual separation, which can be hard when some people's Cubs are painted camo and via radio communication. My new Cub has a Garmin 760 being fed ADS-B with a GDL52. Separation is still visual and radio communication to determine where people are but I also can quickly look at my panel and see traffic as well. I find it all helpful and use it.
I was in a midair collision at Sun & Fun in 2002 under controllers direction. I was lucky, the other pilot was not. I always had a false sense of security when operating in controlled airspace until that accident. Not any more. Everyone covers their own arse no matter what. I verify traffic through all means possible now leaving nothing to chance, if I don't see it I find it, ask where the traffic is etc. I never want to go through that experience again, the accident or the 5 years of litigation and enforcement action. I prevailed but the scars are there both physical and mental. Be prudent and use all tools at your disposal. We all want to fly another day.
If the nearby terrain and lakes are flat, FAR 91.119 applies, and...the base of Class E or whatever is overhead, then maybe they found it easier to maintain clearance. I don't know but they may not venture far from base with those Cubs.
Edit: I mailed a friend that trained there and asked about altimeter and altitudes. Might know more than speculation.
Edit: Have a look at Brown's (F57) at the bottom of the Jacksonville Sectional. Lots of structures, plus surface based vessels and persons under overlying Class E at 700' AGL. 140 MSL floor with E base at 840 MSL. Throw in a 500' AGL clearance when not taking off or landing plus nearby airport (GIF) and then? CTAF 123.05.
Gary
Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 03-13-2023 at 02:33 PM.
Many years ago I got my SES in Michigan, we were instructed to set the altimeter to zero…as it was explained to me at the time…they do so for the reason you stated….staying 500’ from objects, persons, etc…also the unpublished elevations on all of the lakes made it difficult to know this info (pre electronic means)….now my phone and my iPad tell me how high I am both Msl and Asl. This from my old seaplane instructor.
Last edited by Dan Gervae; 03-13-2023 at 05:28 PM.
This is what makes me wonder why some people paint their airplanes the way they do.
Camo is so things will blend in-- the last thing I want to do when flying in a busy airspace.
I can see painting your airplane olive drab if it's a Birddog or L21,
but there's a straight tail 182 in my area painted olive green (with a sharks mouth)--
if his engine quits & he goes down in the woods (of which there is a LOT of around here),
SAR will never spot the airplane.
Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!85Mike thanked for this post
From a fellow pilot that trained at Brown's:
"I don’t recall altimeter settings but I don’t think we ever went above 500 ft except to do a couple stalls and then just a little higher"
Gary
I don’t recall altimeter settings but I don’t think we ever went above 500 ft except to do a couple stalls and then just a little higher.
I did my SES at Brown’s back in 1993 and have returned many times for refreshers over the last 30 years. At a time they had a really mint J-3 on wheels that I got to fly from the Winter Haven airport with Jim Torphy and some solo flying too and separation was all about being aware that there are seaplanes routing in and out of Lake Jesse. I have always found them very professional but it was a shock to me to discover no radio the first time I flew with them ( here in South Africa no radio = no fly). That said I never had a near miss or anything like it whereas here, where radios are de rigeur, I have had several - sometimes multiple in one flight. People are often on the wrong frequency and despite the wonders of GPS are very vague about where they are. In the airspace around the airfield I fly from most we had a 4 fatality collision between two training 172s last year, both with instructors aboard. We have a permanent aerobatic box and aerobatic competitions and two years back we had not one but two 172s show up and bust the box during a competition and not on frequency! Bottom line is that instructional standards seem quite patchy and radios while useful are no fix all. Perhaps there’s a need to restrict the number of instructional flights in busy airspace?
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
'There can be no liberty unless there is economic liberty".
Margaret Thatcher
"Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
------------------------------------------
NX Cub clips the top of Patey's hangar, they walked away.
https://www.abc4.com/news/central-ut...way-uninjured/
The plane was a mess. Surprised that they walked away. Post by Mike Patey.
Well, that sure shortens up the search…..ouch!
MTV
So many questions. Tried the impossible turn? Glad they are ok but damn... Thats 2 CC that I know of in the last week and flying season is just getting started.
Practicing for Dubai 2.0?
From someone in the know.
Here is the story on the NX yesterday when people ask:
Pilot error. High DA, heavy airplane, tried to make it fly too soon. Might’ve cleared the building, but dumped the flaps to drop the nose, lost altitude as a result, and caught a wingtip on the roof edge, which spun the airplane around on on the roof, and the aircraft came to rest as you see it.
Steve Pierce
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
Will Rogers
I was thinking more of a hangar buzz job gone wrong
Glenn
"Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
And the insurance rates go higher! Is this the first FX wreck?
No, a new guy PIO'd one and knocked the nose gear out on landing.
Recent conversation with agent verified the attention CC has created. They justify charging for risk. Not saying it's fair.
“We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”
Saw a blue and while Cub(?) on its back yesterday afternoon on a gravel bar along the Knik. There was a helicopter there picking up the pilot. Gusty winds (maybe ~25-30 peak gusts), but I don't know the story.
Hate to see that, but at least it appeared that the pilot was OK.
Wow! I'd respect a tow truck driver for his comments about it coming right at him, not hyperbole would be my guess. The video seems to back him up. I think crashing into a hangar at an airport would be about as embarassing as it could get for a pilot. Like a truck driver at a Flying J, taking out a fuel island.
and some down elevator.
Just goes to show that you can try and make an airplane dummy proof, but you can never be completely successful.
[I'm not against the NX Cub, BTW; its actually a brilliant idea for selling more Cub Crafters airplanes.]
Latest info I got is:
small jet pilot
2 week old nosewheel
lacked knowledge of ground effect
My interpretation: watches too much YouTube
Bearhawk Companion QB Builder
Revo Sunglasses Ambassador
https://www.instagram.com/jay_townsend_utah/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0...tBJLdV8HB_jSIA
I saw this as well. I landed next to it to be absolutely sure no one was in it. From what I could see in the gravel and damage to the Cub, it looked like heavy braking, loss of directional control (sharp main tire drag mark from left to right) which ended in a nose over with power on (damage to the prop tips). The wind I'm sure was a factor as it was definitely windy (20-30) as mentioned. Both wingtips damaged with the right wing struts being bent up. Trooper report states that the pilot utilized a pack raft he had to float down the Knik until adequate cell reception at which point he called Troopers. He was picked up by one of the Robinsons from the resort that is close by. Glad he was ok but what a bummer to see a beautiful Cub beat up.
Looked like he didn't know what "right rudder" was either...
--
Bearhawk, RV-4
That hangar saved their lives......
MTV
Reminds of an accident we watched at JO Creek a number of years back. Looks a lot like not enough flying speed to control the plane - time to lower the nose. I suspect the DA is pretty high there...
sj
"Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
------------------------------------------
74 degrees
5 knots wind.
4550 foot elevation
500 feet from centerline to nearest hangar.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
So, roughly 6.5K - 7K density altitude. I think the extreme nose up attitude says it all...
"Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
------------------------------------------
A combination of both of your observations. We don't know anything about this particular "small jet pilot". Jet airplanes are generally rotated to a certain pitch attitude and flown on a heading while being allowed to drift. I can visualize this particular pilot flying this airplane by practiced habit, rather than proper piloting technique. Perhaps he learned to fly in a Cherokee which doesn't depend on the use of rudders? Most jets I've been involved with fly nicely without using rudders.
So, roughly 6.5K - 7K density altitude. I think the extreme nose up attitude says it all...
NX1PA
I should add, by my observation many jet pilots never look out the window. They fly totally by instruments, even when in CAVU conditions. One eye on the runway during the takeoff run with the other eye on the instruments. After rotation, the outside eye closes. I say many...not all. In this case, if this is that pilot's habit, he would have had no clue he was about to be in trouble.
NX1PA
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks